Author Topic: Sedevacantists please respond  (Read 3570 times)

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Offline Ad Jesum per Mariam

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Sedevacantists please respond
« on: October 06, 2013, 05:29:17 PM »
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  • Seems as if Our Lady (The Queen of Prophets) refutes an empty seat...

    "The Vicar of My Son will suffer a great deal, because for a while the Church will yield to LARGE persecution, a time of darkness and the Church will witness a frightful crisis[/u]. He will suffer a great deal. I will be with him until the end and receive his sacrifice. The mischievous would attempt his life several times to do harm and shorten his days. Neither he nor his successor will see the triumph of the Church of God. (Our Lady of LaSalette, 1846)

    "As I told you, if men do not repent and better themselves, the Father will inflict a terrible punishment on all humanity. It will be a punishment greater than the deluge, such as no one has ever seen before. Fire will fall from the sky and will wipe out a great part of humanity, the good as well as the bad, sparing neither priests nor faithful. The survivors will find themselves so desolate that they will envy the dead. The only consolation which will remain for you will be the Rosary and the Sign left by My Son. Each day recite the prayers of the Rosary. With the Rosary, pray for the Pope, the bishops and priests." (Our Lady of Akita, 1973)

    What say you?

    Offline Malleus 01

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    « Reply #1 on: October 06, 2013, 05:38:20 PM »
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  • La Salette is approved .

    False apparitions I dont comment on.


    Offline 2Vermont

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    « Reply #2 on: October 06, 2013, 05:39:04 PM »
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  • There are probably better people to respond to this but here are my thoughts:

    (a) I didn't think Akita was an approved apparition.

    (b)  Wrt La Salette, Our Lady does not say when this will happen to the Pope. This could be a future pope.
    "For there is not any thing secret that shall not be made manifest, nor hidden, that shall not be known and come abroad."- Luke 8:17

    Offline Ad Jesum per Mariam

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    « Reply #3 on: October 06, 2013, 05:42:02 PM »
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  • Quote from: Malleus 01
    La Salette is approved .

    False apparitions I dont comment on.


    So where is your comment on La Salette?

    Offline Ad Jesum per Mariam

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    « Reply #4 on: October 06, 2013, 05:44:31 PM »
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  • Quote from: 2Vermont
    There are probably better people to respond to this but here are my thoughts:

    (a) I didn't think Akita was an approved apparition.

    (b)  Wrt La Salette, Our Lady does not say when this will happen to the Pope. This could be a future pope.


    So the frightful crisis and the time of darkness is not now?


    Offline Ambrose

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    « Reply #5 on: October 06, 2013, 05:44:37 PM »
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  • Quote
    "The Vicar of My Son will suffer a great deal, because for a while the Church will yield to LARGE persecution, a time of darkness and the Church will witness a frightful crisis. He will suffer a great deal. I will be with him until the end and receive his sacrifice. The mischievous would attempt his life several times to do harm and shorten his days. Neither he nor his successor will see the triumph of the Church of God. (Our Lady of LaSalette, 1846)


    I don't see very much suffering among the Vatican II "popes."  They think things are great and we are in some sort of great renewal.  

    It seems to me that this will more likely apply to a future pope.  Lets face it, when a pope comes again and publicly professes the Catholic faith and morality, the world will hate him, persecute him, and in my opinion may try to kill him.  This will also apply to all who stand with the Holy Father.  

    Quote
    "As I told you, if men do not repent and better themselves, the Father will inflict a terrible punishment on all humanity. It will be a punishment greater than the deluge, such as no one has ever seen before. Fire will fall from the sky and will wipe out a great part of humanity, the good as well as the bad, sparing neither priests nor faithful. The survivors will find themselves so desolate that they will envy the dead. The only consolation which will remain for you will be the Rosary and the Sign left by My Son. Each day recite the prayers of the Rosary. With the Rosary, pray for the Pope, the bishops and priests." (Our Lady of Akita, 1973)


    I will wait for a future Pope to order an investigation of Akita before giving it any credence.  Paul VI was "pope" at that time and I do not trust him.
    The Council of Trent, The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Papal Teaching, The Teaching of the Holy Office, The Teaching of the Church Fathers, The Code of Canon Law, Countless approved catechisms, The Doctors of the Church, The teaching of the Dogmatic

    Offline 2Vermont

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    « Reply #6 on: October 06, 2013, 05:55:12 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ad Jesum per Mariam
    Quote from: 2Vermont
    There are probably better people to respond to this but here are my thoughts:

    (a) I didn't think Akita was an approved apparition.

    (b)  Wrt La Salette, Our Lady does not say when this will happen to the Pope. This could be a future pope.


    So the frightful crisis and the time of darkness is not now?


    After reading through the whole message of Our Lady I would argue that much of what she talks about hasn't happened yet.
    "For there is not any thing secret that shall not be made manifest, nor hidden, that shall not be known and come abroad."- Luke 8:17

    Offline Ad Jesum per Mariam

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    « Reply #7 on: October 06, 2013, 06:15:43 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ambrose
    Quote
    "The Vicar of My Son will suffer a great deal, because for a while the Church will yield to LARGE persecution, a time of darkness and the Church will witness a frightful crisis. He will suffer a great deal. I will be with him until the end and receive his sacrifice. The mischievous would attempt his life several times to do harm and shorten his days. Neither he nor his successor will see the triumph of the Church of God. (Our Lady of LaSalette, 1846)


    I don't see very much suffering among the Vatican II "popes."  They think things are great and we are in some sort of great renewal.  

    It seems to me that this will more likely apply to a future pope.  Lets face it, when a pope comes again and publicly professes the Catholic faith and morality, the world will hate him, persecute him, and in my opinion may try to kill him.  This will also apply to all who stand with the Holy Father.  

    Quote
    "As I told you, if men do not repent and better themselves, the Father will inflict a terrible punishment on all humanity. It will be a punishment greater than the deluge, such as no one has ever seen before. Fire will fall from the sky and will wipe out a great part of humanity, the good as well as the bad, sparing neither priests nor faithful. The survivors will find themselves so desolate that they will envy the dead. The only consolation which will remain for you will be the Rosary and the Sign left by My Son. Each day recite the prayers of the Rosary. With the Rosary, pray for the Pope, the bishops and priests." (Our Lady of Akita, 1973)


    I will wait for a future Pope to order an investigation of Akita before giving it any credence.  Paul VI was "pope" at that time and I do not trust him.


    The problem with this reply is that there will be a triumph of the Church of God after the crisis foretold at La Salette. Our Lady of Fatima says the same. There will then be a period of peace. If you are referring to the persecution at the end of the world, there will be no successor to the Chair after that. You must conclude then, that there will be another crisis and persecution before the antichrist (besides this one). St. Paul says there will be a (one) revolt before the antichrist. I do not know of two revolts being prophesied.

    Let no man deceive you by any means, for unless there come a revolt first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, Who opposeth, and is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself as if he were God.  Remember you not, that when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 2 Thes 2:3-5

    As for not seeing the suffering, we did see an attempt on the life of John Paul II. John Paul I may have been murdered. John XXIII supposedly wanted the Vatican II council stopped on his death bed. Pope Benedict XVI abruptly retires. I do not think one can dismiss "off hand" suffering of the conciliar popes.


    Offline Ad Jesum per Mariam

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    « Reply #8 on: October 06, 2013, 06:19:57 PM »
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  • Quote from: 2Vermont
    Quote from: Ad Jesum per Mariam
    Quote from: 2Vermont
    There are probably better people to respond to this but here are my thoughts:

    (a) I didn't think Akita was an approved apparition.

    (b)  Wrt La Salette, Our Lady does not say when this will happen to the Pope. This could be a future pope.


    So the frightful crisis and the time of darkness is not now?


    After reading through the whole message of Our Lady I would argue that much of what she talks about hasn't happened yet.


    So the crisis hasn't happened yet? The time of darkness hasn't happened yet? There was no attempt on John Paul II's life? We are not waiting and hoping for the triumph of the Church of God? Please explain.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    « Reply #9 on: October 06, 2013, 06:20:01 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ad Jesum per Mariam
    Quote from: Ambrose
    Quote
    "The Vicar of My Son will suffer a great deal, because for a while the Church will yield to LARGE persecution, a time of darkness and the Church will witness a frightful crisis. He will suffer a great deal. I will be with him until the end and receive his sacrifice. The mischievous would attempt his life several times to do harm and shorten his days. Neither he nor his successor will see the triumph of the Church of God. (Our Lady of LaSalette, 1846)


    I don't see very much suffering among the Vatican II "popes."  They think things are great and we are in some sort of great renewal.  

    It seems to me that this will more likely apply to a future pope.  Lets face it, when a pope comes again and publicly professes the Catholic faith and morality, the world will hate him, persecute him, and in my opinion may try to kill him.  This will also apply to all who stand with the Holy Father.  

    Quote
    "As I told you, if men do not repent and better themselves, the Father will inflict a terrible punishment on all humanity. It will be a punishment greater than the deluge, such as no one has ever seen before. Fire will fall from the sky and will wipe out a great part of humanity, the good as well as the bad, sparing neither priests nor faithful. The survivors will find themselves so desolate that they will envy the dead. The only consolation which will remain for you will be the Rosary and the Sign left by My Son. Each day recite the prayers of the Rosary. With the Rosary, pray for the Pope, the bishops and priests." (Our Lady of Akita, 1973)


    I will wait for a future Pope to order an investigation of Akita before giving it any credence.  Paul VI was "pope" at that time and I do not trust him.


    The problem with this reply is that there will be a triumph of the Church of God after the crisis foretold at La Salette. Our Lady of Fatima says the same. There will then be a period of peace. If you are referring to the persecution at the end of the world, there will be no successor to the Chair after that. You must conclude then, that there will be another crisis and persecution before the antichrist (besides this one). St. Paul says there will be a (one) revolt before the antichrist. I do not know of two revolts being prophesied.

    Let no man deceive you by any means, for unless there come a revolt first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, Who opposeth, and is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself as if he were God.  Remember you not, that when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 2 Thes 2:3-5

    As for not seeing the suffering, we did see an attempt on the life of John Paul II. John Paul I may have been murdered. John XXIII supposedly wanted the Vatican II council stopped on his death bed. Pope Benedict XVI abruptly retires. I do not think one can dismiss "off hand" suffering of the conciliar popes.


    She says that one pope will have several attempts made on his one life.  Has that happened yet?  No.
    "For there is not any thing secret that shall not be made manifest, nor hidden, that shall not be known and come abroad."- Luke 8:17

    Offline Ad Jesum per Mariam

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    « Reply #10 on: October 06, 2013, 06:43:54 PM »
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  • Quote from: 2Vermont
    Quote from: Ad Jesum per Mariam
    Quote from: Ambrose
    Quote
    "The Vicar of My Son will suffer a great deal, because for a while the Church will yield to LARGE persecution, a time of darkness and the Church will witness a frightful crisis. He will suffer a great deal. I will be with him until the end and receive his sacrifice. The mischievous would attempt his life several times to do harm and shorten his days. Neither he nor his successor will see the triumph of the Church of God. (Our Lady of LaSalette, 1846)


    I don't see very much suffering among the Vatican II "popes."  They think things are great and we are in some sort of great renewal.  

    It seems to me that this will more likely apply to a future pope.  Lets face it, when a pope comes again and publicly professes the Catholic faith and morality, the world will hate him, persecute him, and in my opinion may try to kill him.  This will also apply to all who stand with the Holy Father.  

    Quote
    "As I told you, if men do not repent and better themselves, the Father will inflict a terrible punishment on all humanity. It will be a punishment greater than the deluge, such as no one has ever seen before. Fire will fall from the sky and will wipe out a great part of humanity, the good as well as the bad, sparing neither priests nor faithful. The survivors will find themselves so desolate that they will envy the dead. The only consolation which will remain for you will be the Rosary and the Sign left by My Son. Each day recite the prayers of the Rosary. With the Rosary, pray for the Pope, the bishops and priests." (Our Lady of Akita, 1973)


    I will wait for a future Pope to order an investigation of Akita before giving it any credence.  Paul VI was "pope" at that time and I do not trust him.


    The problem with this reply is that there will be a triumph of the Church of God after the crisis foretold at La Salette. Our Lady of Fatima says the same. There will then be a period of peace. If you are referring to the persecution at the end of the world, there will be no successor to the Chair after that. You must conclude then, that there will be another crisis and persecution before the antichrist (besides this one). St. Paul says there will be a (one) revolt before the antichrist. I do not know of two revolts being prophesied.

    Let no man deceive you by any means, for unless there come a revolt first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, Who opposeth, and is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself as if he were God.  Remember you not, that when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 2 Thes 2:3-5

    As for not seeing the suffering, we did see an attempt on the life of John Paul II. John Paul I may have been murdered. John XXIII supposedly wanted the Vatican II council stopped on his death bed. Pope Benedict XVI abruptly retires. I do not think one can dismiss "off hand" suffering of the conciliar popes.


    She says that one pope will have several attempts made on his one life.  Has that happened yet?  No.


    Several visible and known attempts have not been made. That does not mean there has not been attempts made that are unknown to us. The Vicar also seems to be suffering due to the frightful crisis and persecution which lasts "for a while". Therefore it maybe referring to a series of Popes. Either way your reply does not not supply evidence for refuting my previous post.


    Offline 2Vermont

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    « Reply #11 on: October 06, 2013, 06:45:19 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ad Jesum per Mariam
    Quote from: 2Vermont
    Quote from: Ad Jesum per Mariam
    Quote from: Ambrose
    Quote
    "The Vicar of My Son will suffer a great deal, because for a while the Church will yield to LARGE persecution, a time of darkness and the Church will witness a frightful crisis. He will suffer a great deal. I will be with him until the end and receive his sacrifice. The mischievous would attempt his life several times to do harm and shorten his days. Neither he nor his successor will see the triumph of the Church of God. (Our Lady of LaSalette, 1846)


    I don't see very much suffering among the Vatican II "popes."  They think things are great and we are in some sort of great renewal.  

    It seems to me that this will more likely apply to a future pope.  Lets face it, when a pope comes again and publicly professes the Catholic faith and morality, the world will hate him, persecute him, and in my opinion may try to kill him.  This will also apply to all who stand with the Holy Father.  

    Quote
    "As I told you, if men do not repent and better themselves, the Father will inflict a terrible punishment on all humanity. It will be a punishment greater than the deluge, such as no one has ever seen before. Fire will fall from the sky and will wipe out a great part of humanity, the good as well as the bad, sparing neither priests nor faithful. The survivors will find themselves so desolate that they will envy the dead. The only consolation which will remain for you will be the Rosary and the Sign left by My Son. Each day recite the prayers of the Rosary. With the Rosary, pray for the Pope, the bishops and priests." (Our Lady of Akita, 1973)


    I will wait for a future Pope to order an investigation of Akita before giving it any credence.  Paul VI was "pope" at that time and I do not trust him.


    The problem with this reply is that there will be a triumph of the Church of God after the crisis foretold at La Salette. Our Lady of Fatima says the same. There will then be a period of peace. If you are referring to the persecution at the end of the world, there will be no successor to the Chair after that. You must conclude then, that there will be another crisis and persecution before the antichrist (besides this one). St. Paul says there will be a (one) revolt before the antichrist. I do not know of two revolts being prophesied.

    Let no man deceive you by any means, for unless there come a revolt first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, Who opposeth, and is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself as if he were God.  Remember you not, that when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 2 Thes 2:3-5

    As for not seeing the suffering, we did see an attempt on the life of John Paul II. John Paul I may have been murdered. John XXIII supposedly wanted the Vatican II council stopped on his death bed. Pope Benedict XVI abruptly retires. I do not think one can dismiss "off hand" suffering of the conciliar popes.


    She says that one pope will have several attempts made on his one life.  Has that happened yet?  No.


    Several visible and known attempts have not been made. That does not mean there has not been attempts made that are unknown to us. The Vicar also seems to be suffering due to the frightful crisis and persecution which lasts "for a while". Therefore it maybe referring to a series of Popes. Either way your reply does not not supply evidence for refuting my previous post.


    OK, you're interpretation of the private revelation is correct.  We're all wrong.  Sedes are wrong.

    that's what you wanted right?

    "For there is not any thing secret that shall not be made manifest, nor hidden, that shall not be known and come abroad."- Luke 8:17

    Offline Ad Jesum per Mariam

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    « Reply #12 on: October 06, 2013, 07:02:38 PM »
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  • Quote from: 2Vermont
    Quote from: Ad Jesum per Mariam
    Quote from: 2Vermont
    Quote from: Ad Jesum per Mariam
    Quote from: Ambrose
    Quote
    "The Vicar of My Son will suffer a great deal, because for a while the Church will yield to LARGE persecution, a time of darkness and the Church will witness a frightful crisis. He will suffer a great deal. I will be with him until the end and receive his sacrifice. The mischievous would attempt his life several times to do harm and shorten his days. Neither he nor his successor will see the triumph of the Church of God. (Our Lady of LaSalette, 1846)


    I don't see very much suffering among the Vatican II "popes."  They think things are great and we are in some sort of great renewal.  

    It seems to me that this will more likely apply to a future pope.  Lets face it, when a pope comes again and publicly professes the Catholic faith and morality, the world will hate him, persecute him, and in my opinion may try to kill him.  This will also apply to all who stand with the Holy Father.  

    Quote
    "As I told you, if men do not repent and better themselves, the Father will inflict a terrible punishment on all humanity. It will be a punishment greater than the deluge, such as no one has ever seen before. Fire will fall from the sky and will wipe out a great part of humanity, the good as well as the bad, sparing neither priests nor faithful. The survivors will find themselves so desolate that they will envy the dead. The only consolation which will remain for you will be the Rosary and the Sign left by My Son. Each day recite the prayers of the Rosary. With the Rosary, pray for the Pope, the bishops and priests." (Our Lady of Akita, 1973)


    I will wait for a future Pope to order an investigation of Akita before giving it any credence.  Paul VI was "pope" at that time and I do not trust him.


    The problem with this reply is that there will be a triumph of the Church of God after the crisis foretold at La Salette. Our Lady of Fatima says the same. There will then be a period of peace. If you are referring to the persecution at the end of the world, there will be no successor to the Chair after that. You must conclude then, that there will be another crisis and persecution before the antichrist (besides this one). St. Paul says there will be a (one) revolt before the antichrist. I do not know of two revolts being prophesied.

    Let no man deceive you by any means, for unless there come a revolt first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, Who opposeth, and is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself as if he were God.  Remember you not, that when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 2 Thes 2:3-5

    As for not seeing the suffering, we did see an attempt on the life of John Paul II. John Paul I may have been murdered. John XXIII supposedly wanted the Vatican II council stopped on his death bed. Pope Benedict XVI abruptly retires. I do not think one can dismiss "off hand" suffering of the conciliar popes.


    She says that one pope will have several attempts made on his one life.  Has that happened yet?  No.


    Several visible and known attempts have not been made. That does not mean there has not been attempts made that are unknown to us. The Vicar also seems to be suffering due to the frightful crisis and persecution which lasts "for a while". Therefore it maybe referring to a series of Popes. Either way your reply does not not supply evidence for refuting my previous post.


    OK, you're interpretation of the private revelation is correct.  We're all wrong.  Sedes are wrong.

    that's what you wanted right?



    If it is incorrect then just provide actual evidence. If not, then it shows pretty clearly that sedevacantism is false. Catholics cannot despise prophecy, rather we must prove it and hold it...

    In all things give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you all. Extinguish not the spirit. Despise not prophecies. But prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 1 Thes 5:18-21

    Offline Ambrose

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    « Reply #13 on: October 06, 2013, 07:15:35 PM »
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  • Quote
    The problem with this reply is that there will be a triumph of the Church of God after the crisis foretold at La Salette. Our Lady of Fatima says the same. There will then be a period of peace. If you are referring to the persecution at the end of the world, there will be no successor to the Chair after that. You must conclude then, that there will be another crisis and persecution before the antichrist (besides this one). St. Paul says there will be a (one) revolt before the antichrist. I do not know of two revolts being prophesied.

    Let no man deceive you by any means, for unless there come a revolt first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, Who opposeth, and is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself as if he were God.  Remember you not, that when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 2 Thes 2:3-5

    As for not seeing the suffering, we did see an attempt on the life of John Paul II. John Paul I may have been murdered. John XXIII supposedly wanted the Vatican II council stopped on his death bed. Pope Benedict XVI abruptly retires. I do not think one can dismiss "off hand" suffering of the conciliar popes.


    First, prophesy cannot contradict theology.  Also private revelation does not bind any Catholic.  

    Second, you are assuming that we are at the end.  In my opinion, I do not believe this crisis will lead to the end of the world.  Our Lady of Fatima said there would be a reign of peace, after Russia was consecrated by the pope in union with the bishops.  That could not happen if we are at the end of the world.
    The Council of Trent, The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Papal Teaching, The Teaching of the Holy Office, The Teaching of the Church Fathers, The Code of Canon Law, Countless approved catechisms, The Doctors of the Church, The teaching of the Dogmatic

    Offline Ad Jesum per Mariam

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    « Reply #14 on: October 06, 2013, 07:31:13 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ambrose
    Quote
    The problem with this reply is that there will be a triumph of the Church of God after the crisis foretold at La Salette. Our Lady of Fatima says the same. There will then be a period of peace. If you are referring to the persecution at the end of the world, there will be no successor to the Chair after that. You must conclude then, that there will be another crisis and persecution before the antichrist (besides this one). St. Paul says there will be a (one) revolt before the antichrist. I do not know of two revolts being prophesied.

    Let no man deceive you by any means, for unless there come a revolt first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, Who opposeth, and is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself as if he were God.  Remember you not, that when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 2 Thes 2:3-5

    As for not seeing the suffering, we did see an attempt on the life of John Paul II. John Paul I may have been murdered. John XXIII supposedly wanted the Vatican II council stopped on his death bed. Pope Benedict XVI abruptly retires. I do not think one can dismiss "off hand" suffering of the conciliar popes.


    First, prophesy cannot contradict theology.  Also private revelation does not bind any Catholic.  

    Second, you are assuming that we are at the end.  In my opinion, I do not believe this crisis will lead to the end of the world.  Our Lady of Fatima said there would be a reign of peace, after Russia was consecrated by the pope in union with the bishops.  That could not happen if we are at the end of the world.



    What theology is being contradicted. Please explain. Also, ordinary private revelation does not bind, but prophecy does (or we extinguish the Spirit). La Salette certainly qualifies as prophecy. What I am doing and what you are failing to do is to prove the prophecy (1 Thes 5:18-21). On top of that, I specifically said we were not at the end. You are not reading my posts carefully. I said there would be a period of peace, then the end. Here is what I said...

    "The problem with this reply is that there will be a triumph of the Church of God after the crisis foretold at La Salette. Our Lady of Fatima says the same. There will then be a period of peace. If you are referring to the persecution at the end of the world, there will be no successor to the Chair after that. You must conclude then, that there will be another crisis and persecution before the antichrist (besides this one). St. Paul says there will be a (one) revolt before the antichrist. I do not know of two revolts being prophesied."

    By you saying that our current crisis is not the crisis foretold by Our Lady of La Salette, you imply that there will be another crisis before the persecution of the antichrist. You have still not responded to that.

     

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