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Author Topic: Problems with the Catechism of the Catholic Church?  (Read 4007 times)

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Offline SimpleMan

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Problems with the Catechism of the Catholic Church?
« on: November 24, 2019, 11:41:15 PM »
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  • From a traditionalist standpoint, what are some of the main problems with the Catechism of the Catholic Church?


    I have noticed a tendency in some Novus Ordo circles to treat the CCC as "the mother of all encyclicals", with everything therein regarded as "the bottom line", forget everything that preceded it, you shouldn't even be thinking about anything that doesn't conform to it.  It is as though everything in the CCC is regarded as infallible --- even if it isn't, that's the impression they create.


    What is the best approach to take to the CCC?

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Problems with the Catechism of the Catholic Church?
    « Reply #1 on: November 25, 2019, 12:10:25 AM »
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  • From a traditionalist standpoint, what are some of the main problems with the Catechism of the Catholic Church?


    I have noticed a tendency in some Novus Ordo circles to treat the CCC as "the mother of all encyclicals", with everything therein regarded as "the bottom line", forget everything that preceded it, you shouldn't even be thinking about anything that doesn't conform to it.  It is as though everything in the CCC is regarded as infallible --- even if it isn't, that's the impression they create.


    What is the best approach to take to the CCC?
    THe worst part of the CCC attacks the Holy Trinity when it states that the "God" of Christianity, Islam, and Judaism is the same. We know that Islam and Judaism deny the Holy Trinity because neither "faith" believes that Christ is God. Thus, this statement denies the existence of the Holy Trinity.
    Lord have mercy.


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Problems with the Catechism of the Catholic Church?
    « Reply #2 on: November 25, 2019, 12:25:37 AM »
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  • Fr Wathen did some great Radio critiques of the new catechism.  You can find his study series here:  www.fatherwathen.com

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Problems with the Catechism of the Catholic Church?
    « Reply #3 on: November 25, 2019, 07:00:10 AM »
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  • From a traditionalist standpoint, what are some of the main problems with the Catechism of the Catholic Church?


    I have noticed a tendency in some Novus Ordo circles to treat the CCC as "the mother of all encyclicals", with everything therein regarded as "the bottom line", forget everything that preceded it, you shouldn't even be thinking about anything that doesn't conform to it.  It is as though everything in the CCC is regarded as infallible --- even if it isn't, that's the impression they create.


    What is the best approach to take to the CCC?
    If we're talking about JPII's Catechism of Vatican II, the best approach is to trash it. 

    Offline poche

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    Re: Problems with the Catechism of the Catholic Church?
    « Reply #4 on: November 27, 2019, 03:30:17 AM »
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  • THe worst part of the CCC attacks the Holy Trinity when it states that the "God" of Christianity, Islam, and Judaism is the same. We know that Islam and Judaism deny the Holy Trinity because neither "faith" believes that Christ is God. Thus, this statement denies the existence of the Holy Trinity.
    From Justin's dialogue with Trypho;
    Justin: There will be no other God, O Trypho, nor was there from eternity any other existing, but He who made and disposed all this universe. Nor do we think that there is one God for us, another for you, but that He alone is God who led your fathers out from Egypt with a strong hand and a high arm. Nor have we trusted in any other (for there is no other), but in Him in whom you also have trusted, the God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob. But we do not trust through Moses or through the law; for then we would do the same as yourselves. But now —(for I have read that there shall be a final law, and a covenant, the chiefest of all, which it is now incuмbent on all men to observe, as many as are seeking after the inheritance of God. For the law promulgated on Horeb is now old, and belongs to yourselves alone; but this is for all universally. Now, law placed against law has abrogated that which is before it, and a covenant which comes after in like manner has put an end to the previous one; and an eternal and final law — namely, Christ — has been given to us, and the covenant is trustworthy, after which there shall be no law, no commandment, no ordinance. Have you not read this which Isaiah says: 'Hearken unto Me, hearken unto Me, my people; and, you kings, give ear unto Me: for a law shall go forth from Me, and My judgment shall be for a light to the nations. My righteousness approaches swiftly, and My salvation shall go forth, and nations shall trust in My arm?' And by Jeremiah, concerning this same new covenant, He thus speaks: 'Behold, the days come, says the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah; not according to the covenant which I made with their fathers, in the day that I took them by the hand, to bring them out of the land of Egypt' Jeremiah 31:31-32). If, therefore, God proclaimed a new covenant which was to be instituted, and this for a light of the nations, we see and are persuaded that men approach God, leaving their idols and other unrighteousness, through the name of Him who was crucified, Jesus Christ, and abide by their confession even unto death, and maintain piety. Moreover, by the works and by the attendant miracles, it is possible for all to understand that He is the new law, and the new covenant, and the expectation of those who out of every people wait for the good things of God. For the true spiritual Israel, and descendants of Judah, Jacob, Isaac, and Abraham (who in uncircuмcision was approved of and blessed by God on account of his faith, and called the father of many nations), are we who have been led to God through this crucified Christ, as shall be demonstrated while we proceed.
    http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/01282.htm


    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Problems with the Catechism of the Catholic Church?
    « Reply #5 on: November 27, 2019, 09:33:34 AM »
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  • From Justin's dialogue with Trypho;
    Justin: There will be no other God, O Trypho, nor was there from eternity any other existing, but He who made and disposed all this universe. Nor do we think that there is one God for us, another for you, but that He alone is God who led your fathers out from Egypt with a strong hand and a high arm. Nor have we trusted in any other (for there is no other), but in Him in whom you also have trusted, the God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob. But we do not trust through Moses or through the law; for then we would do the same as yourselves. But now —(for I have read that there shall be a final law, and a covenant, the chiefest of all, which it is now incuмbent on all men to observe, as many as are seeking after the inheritance of God. For the law promulgated on Horeb is now old, and belongs to yourselves alone; but this is for all universally. Now, law placed against law has abrogated that which is before it, and a covenant which comes after in like manner has put an end to the previous one; and an eternal and final law — namely, Christ — has been given to us, and the covenant is trustworthy, after which there shall be no law, no commandment, no ordinance. Have you not read this which Isaiah says: 'Hearken unto Me, hearken unto Me, my people; and, you kings, give ear unto Me: for a law shall go forth from Me, and My judgment shall be for a light to the nations. My righteousness approaches swiftly, and My salvation shall go forth, and nations shall trust in My arm?' And by Jeremiah, concerning this same new covenant, He thus speaks: 'Behold, the days come, says the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah; not according to the covenant which I made with their fathers, in the day that I took them by the hand, to bring them out of the land of Egypt' Jeremiah 31:31-32). If, therefore, God proclaimed a new covenant which was to be instituted, and this for a light of the nations, we see and are persuaded that men approach God, leaving their idols and other unrighteousness, through the name of Him who was crucified, Jesus Christ, and abide by their confession even unto death, and maintain piety. Moreover, by the works and by the attendant miracles, it is possible for all to understand that He is the new law, and the new covenant, and the expectation of those who out of every people wait for the good things of God. For the true spiritual Israel, and descendants of Judah, Jacob, Isaac, and Abraham (who in uncircuмcision was approved of and blessed by God on account of his faith, and called the father of many nations), are we who have been led to God through this crucified Christ, as shall be demonstrated while we proceed.
    http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/01282.htm
    During the time of St. Justin, those of the "True Spiritual Israel" were converting to Christianity. In fact, so many of the Jєωιѕн priests had converted to Christianity, that there were no longer any priests left to do Temple worship. It is for this reason that the Jєωιѕн state today is trying to re-create the Sanhedrin and the priesthood so they can rebuild the Temple. Those perfidious ones have also had to use special genetic breeding programs importing foreign stock from Europe to re-establish an unspotted heifer for use in temple sacrifices because that original breeding line had disappeared many hundreds of years ago. However, this newly breed unspotted heifer is quite different from the ones used before Christ's Holy Incarnation.

    The perfidious Jews were those who refused to convert to Christianity, and were those who denied the Holy Triune Godhead, who is the God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, for Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob worshiped the Holy Trinity. The perfidious Jews were no longer part of the "True Spiritual Israel" as they had denied the Crucified One.  In fact, Genesis witnesses to the Holy Trinity when Genesis uses the plural personal pronoun, "We" and "Our" to refer to the actions of the Holy Trinity in creating man. Notice that Genesis also refers to God in the first person singular, "He." Thus, our God is both One and Three -- One God in Three Divine Persons: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

    Quote
    Genesis 26 And He said: Let Us make man to Our image and likeness: and let him have dominion over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and the beasts, and the whole earth, and every creeping creature that moveth upon the earth.

    Judaism today is anti-Christian, anti-Christ, and anti-Trinitarian.
    Islam is also anti-Christian, anti-Christ, and anti-Trinitarian.

    Biblical reference: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1&version=DRA
    Lord have mercy.

    Offline poche

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    Re: Problems with the Catechism of the Catholic Church?
    « Reply #6 on: November 27, 2019, 11:16:01 PM »
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  • During the time of St. Justin, those of the "True Spiritual Israel" were converting to Christianity. In fact, so many of the Jєωιѕн priests had converted to Christianity, that there were no longer any priests left to do Temple worship. It is for this reason that the Jєωιѕн state today is trying to re-create the Sanhedrin and the priesthood so they can rebuild the Temple. Those perfidious ones have also had to use special genetic breeding programs importing foreign stock from Europe to re-establish an unspotted heifer for use in temple sacrifices because that original breeding line had disappeared many hundreds of years ago. However, this newly breed unspotted heifer is quite different from the ones used before Christ's Holy Incarnation.

    The perfidious Jews were those who refused to convert to Christianity, and were those who denied the Holy Triune Godhead, who is the God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, for Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob worshiped the Holy Trinity. The perfidious Jews were no longer part of the "True Spiritual Israel" as they had denied the Crucified One.  In fact, Genesis witnesses to the Holy Trinity when Genesis uses the plural personal pronoun, "We" and "Our" to refer to the actions of the Holy Trinity in creating man. Notice that Genesis also refers to God in the first person singular, "He." Thus, our God is both One and Three -- One God in Three Divine Persons: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

    Judaism today is anti-Christian, anti-Christ, and anti-Trinitarian.
    Islam is also anti-Christian, anti-Christ, and anti-Trinitarian.

    Biblical reference: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1&version=DRA
    According to Justin, the God of the Jews was the God of the Christians.

    Offline Mark 79

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    Offline poche

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    Re: Problems with the Catechism of the Catholic Church?
    « Reply #8 on: November 28, 2019, 01:11:08 AM »
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  • Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Problems with the Catechism of the Catholic Church?
    « Reply #9 on: November 28, 2019, 01:58:24 AM »
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  • Lying again, Poochie.

    polytheism, the worship of the “goddess” (demon!) Shekinah


    including sɛҳuąƖ union, zivug, with the Jews’ “strange God”:





























    Vatican Lesson on Shekinah Echoed by Scott Hahn
    “Operation Mermaid Dawn”






    [url=https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0814322719/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0814322719&linkCode=as2&tag=httpwwwchanco-20 Hebrew Goddess


    See also: http://judaism.is/paganism.html


    .
    Mark,

    When did the Jews fall into Kabbalism? Was this before or after the time of Christ?
    When I studied Old Testament History and the History of the Jews (from a Roman Catholic perspective), we were taught that the Ark of the Covenant was taken from the Jєωιѕн people because of their idolatry. This happened long before Christ appeared.

    ~~~

    Poche,

    Judaism today does not worship the Most Holy Trinity, neither do the Muslims. By 70 A.D. , the Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed.

    Islam is a religion founded by Mohammed who worshiped the pagan moon god, not the Most Holy Trinity. This is why the crescent moon is on the Islamic flag.  Islam stole elements of Christianity and Judaism, for example, prostrations, fasting, and hours of prayers,  and incorporated these elements into their religion, which is of the devil. Their religion is cafeteria style, where Mohanned and his followers picked elements of the Old and New Testaments that pleased them. It became a religion of fear, not love as they believed that this mood god was capricious.

    The God of our Fathers, the Holy Trinity,, is not a capricious God. The Father sent His Only Begotten Son, Our Lord God and  Saviour Jesus Christ, to redeem us from our sins and to save us. The All Holy Trinity is sent by the Father to purify us in Holy Baptism,  to illuminate us in Holy Confirmation, and to sanctify us in Holy Communion, so that we can become adopted Sons of God and heirs of Heaven.  This is an act of Divine Love, not capriciousness.

    Therefore, as Catholics, we do not worship the same God as do the Jews and Moslems because we worship the Holy Trinity: Father Son, and Holy Ghost.
    Lord have mercy.

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Problems with the Catechism of the Catholic Church?
    « Reply #10 on: November 28, 2019, 02:19:03 AM »
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  • The Holy Spirit purifies, illuminates, and sanctifies us in the Sacraments of Initiation: Holy Baptism, Holy Confirmation, and Holy Communion. It is He, the All-Holy Spirit, who sends us the graces to repent (actual grace) and the graces to become Sons of God (Sanctifying grace).

    Since the Jews and Moslems deny the Holy Spirit and the Christ, they do not worship the Holy Trinity.

    And hence, they do not worship the same God as we do.
    Lord have mercy.


    Offline poche

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    Re: Problems with the Catechism of the Catholic Church?
    « Reply #11 on: November 29, 2019, 12:51:55 AM »
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  • Mark,

    When did the Jews fall into Kabbalism? Was this before or after the time of Christ?
    When I studied Old Testament History and the History of the Jews (from a Roman Catholic perspective), we were taught that the Ark of the Covenant was taken from the Jєωιѕн people because of their idolatry. This happened long before Christ appeared.

    ~~~

    Poche,

    Judaism today does not worship the Most Holy Trinity, neither do the Muslims. By 70 A.D. , the Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed.

    Islam is a religion founded by Mohammed who worshiped the pagan moon god, not the Most Holy Trinity. This is why the crescent moon is on the Islamic flag.  Islam stole elements of Christianity and Judaism, for example, prostrations, fasting, and hours of prayers,  and incorporated these elements into their religion, which is of the devil. Their religion is cafeteria style, where Mohanned and his followers picked elements of the Old and New Testaments that pleased them. It became a religion of fear, not love as they believed that this mood god was capricious.

    The God of our Fathers, the Holy Trinity,, is not a capricious God. The Father sent His Only Begotten Son, Our Lord God and  Saviour Jesus Christ, to redeem us from our sins and to save us. The All Holy Trinity is sent by the Father to purify us in Holy Baptism,  to illuminate us in Holy Confirmation, and to sanctify us in Holy Communion, so that we can become adopted Sons of God and heirs of Heaven.  This is an act of Divine Love, not capriciousness.

    Therefore, as Catholics, we do not worship the same God as do the Jews and Moslems because we worship the Holy Trinity: Father Son, and Holy Ghost.
    Justin, in his dialogue with Trypho disagrees with you.

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Problems with the Catechism of the Catholic Church?
    « Reply #12 on: November 29, 2019, 01:36:59 AM »
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  • Justin, in his dialogue with Trypho disagrees with you.
    Oh, Poche, do not continue in your spiritual blindness.

    Do you not see that the ancient Jews, who worshiped the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, also worshiped the Holy Trinity, Who is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?

    This is why St. Justin wrote to the Jews of his time to encourage them to see the Light and convert to Christianity.

    Why else would St. Justin take time to be an apostle to these Jews? They did not accept the Crucified One, Who is Christ. Thus, they did not worship the Holy Trinity, but denied Him in their idolatry and pride.

    Through his teachings, St. Justin was able to convert many to Christ.

    ~~~

    Do you also agree with the heretical CCC that Moslems worship the same God as the Jews? If this were the case, then why are you not worshiping with the Moslems in their mosques or with Jews in their ѕуηαgσgυєs?

    I remember distinctly that with the propagation of the docuмents of Vatican II, which insisted that we Catholics worship the same God as do the Jews and Moslems, that the Jєωιѕн ѕуηαgσgυє next door invited us to join them on their Sabbath, and many from our parish did with the encouragement of our priests. Horrors of Horrors! Some of the women in our parish even started to date Jєωιѕн men and marry them. Others started dating Moslems and even converted to Islam to marry these Moslems. Sadly, many Catholics were blinded to the reality of this idolatry as they had been lulled to sleep because the Vatican II NO Church was complicit in this diabolical deceit.

    Do you now see how dangerous and diabolical these  teachings from Vatican II and the CCC are?

    How many Catholics have lost the faith and are now damned in hell because they started worshiping with Jews and Moslems who do not worship the Holy Trinity, but the devil.

    Lord have mercy.

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Problems with the Catechism of the Catholic Church?
    « Reply #13 on: November 29, 2019, 01:59:24 AM »
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  • If we're talking about JPII's Catechism of Vatican II, the best approach is to trash it.

    Yes, that is the best approach. I rejected JPII's CCC completely because I reject everything that came from the Vatican II popes. Pope Pius IX said that if you have a bottle of wine that is 99.99% perfect wine, and you add one drop of poison, it'll kill you just the same, so one rightly should not let that wine even touch their tongue. However, in order reject it completely, one must believe that the Vatican II popes are not popes:



    St. Ignatius in his Rules for Thinking with the Church

    First ruleRenouncing all self-judgment, we must be wholly willing to obey in all things the true Spouse of Jesus Christ Our Lord, which is our Hierarchical Holy Mother Church.”

    Ninth rule – Finally, to praise all precepts of the Church, always seeking reasons in their favor, and never in their disfavor.”

    Thirteenth rule – To always be on the side of truth, we must follow this norm: the white that I see is black, if the Holy Church so decides it, believing that between Christ Our Lord, the Bridegroom, and the Church, his Bride, there is the same Spirit that governs and directs us for the salvation of our souls. In fact, the same Divine Spirit who gave us the Ten Commandments also rules and governs our Holy Mother Church. “

    Offline poche

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    Re: Problems with the Catechism of the Catholic Church?
    « Reply #14 on: November 30, 2019, 04:58:55 AM »
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  • Oh, Poche, do not continue in your spiritual blindness.

    Do you not see that the ancient Jews, who worshiped the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, also worshiped the Holy Trinity, Who is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?

    This is why St. Justin wrote to the Jews of his time to encourage them to see the Light and convert to Christianity.

    Why else would St. Justin take time to be an apostle to these Jews? They did not accept the Crucified One, Who is Christ. Thus, they did not worship the Holy Trinity, but denied Him in their idolatry and pride.

    Through his teachings, St. Justin was able to convert many to Christ.

    ~~~

    Do you also agree with the heretical CCC that Moslems worship the same God as the Jews? If this were the case, then why are you not worshiping with the Moslems in their mosques or with Jews in their ѕуηαgσgυєs?

    I remember distinctly that with the propagation of the docuмents of Vatican II, which insisted that we Catholics worship the same God as do the Jews and Moslems, that the Jєωιѕн ѕуηαgσgυє next door invited us to join them on their Sabbath, and many from our parish did with the encouragement of our priests. Horrors of Horrors! Some of the women in our parish even started to date Jєωιѕн men and marry them. Others started dating Moslems and even converted to Islam to marry these Moslems. Sadly, many Catholics were blinded to the reality of this idolatry as they had been lulled to sleep because the Vatican II NO Church was complicit in this diabolical deceit.

    Do you now see how dangerous and diabolical these  teachings from Vatican II and the CCC are?

    How many Catholics have lost the faith and are now damned in hell because they started worshiping with Jews and Moslems who do not worship the Holy Trinity, but the devil.
    What you are saying is not accurate. While many Jews were converting others were not. Some of them were signal in how they helped the Pagans persecute the Catholic Church.