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Quote from: gooch

Quote from: Mithrandyla
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how can you be 100% sure when Pope Pius XI says "take part" that it doesn't include passive attendance...for example there's an assembly of jews at some circuмcision ceremony, you go..aren't you taking part in it by simply attending? I think you would be taking a chance by merely attending ...but the other quote you gave seems to contradict this one.

We can be certain because the Church's own law, which is protected from approving error, says that circuмstance can allow passive attendance.  

"It is illicit for Catholics in any way to assist actively or take part in sacred worship of non-Catholics (c. 1258/1). Passive or merely material presence, for sake of civil courtesy, duty or respect, for a grave reason which in case of doubt should have the approval of the Bishop may be tolerated at the funerals, weddings and other such celebration of non-Catholics, provided there is no danger of perversion or of scandal (c. 1258/2).
so according to this if  want to go to a greek orthodox funeral for a relative I can as long as there's  no danger of perversion or of scandal..which I'm not sure what that would entail...I just se this as contradicting the pope's quote on the assembly of non catholics

If you see Catholic teaching contradicting prior teaching then the problem is with your understanding, not with one of the teachings.  There is a difference between active participation and passive attendance.  It's not a difficult concept.

I've given you what approved canonists have to say about the canon.  Rely on their judgement, not your own.[/quote]

you maybe right but can you see why it's not so clear cut for me
Pope Pius XI,
Mortalium Animos
(# 10), Jan. 6, 1928: “...
this Apostolic See has never allowed its subjects to take part in
the assemblies of non-Catholics...”

here you're interpreting the Pope's "take part"  to mean active participation only, that he allowed passive attendance...I'm just not 100% sure

here's another quote to make me pause

Pope Pius VI,
Charitas
(# 31-32), April 13, 1791, speaking of priests who went along with
the notoriously heretical civil constitution of the clergy in France: “Above all, avoid and
condemn the sacrilegious intruders...do not hold communion with them especially in
divine worship .”
Speaking of priests who belong to the “Old Catholic” sect, which publicly rejects Vatican I and its
definition on Papal Infallibility, Pope Pius IX declared:
Pope Pius IX,
Graves ac diuturnae
(# 4), March 23, 1875: “
They [the faithful] should totally shun their religious celebrations, their buildings,
and their chairs of pestilence which they have with impunity established
to transmit the sacred teachings. They should shun their writings and all contact with
them. They should not have any dealings or meetings with usurping priests and apostates from the faith who dare to exercise the duties of an ecclesiastical minister without possessing a legitimate mission or any
jurisdiction.”

Canon 1258.1, 1917 Code of Canon Law: “It is
not licit for the faithful by any manner to
assist actively or to have a part in the sacred rites of non-Catholics.”

so here the "have a  part " means what exactly? it can't mean assist actively ...doesn't i logically mean passive attendance?

Gooch, I have highlighted this from MD's quotes:

It is conceivable that even merely passive presence might be accompanied by an internal intention to approve, assent to, or encourage the non-Catholic worship; if that were true it would be formal cooperation in an evil act, and forbidden by the natural law.

From what I can see, this is where they distinguish the "take part" in passive attendance.  

Maybe this will help.

Quote from: 2Vermont

Gooch, I have highlighted this from MD's quotes:

It is conceivable that even merely passive presence might be accompanied by an internal intention to approve, assent to, or encourage the non-Catholic worship; if that were true it would be formal cooperation in an evil act, and forbidden by the natural law.

From what I can see, this is where they distinguish the "take part" in passive attendance.  

Maybe this will help.

Vermont , thanks, I agree if we take the canon alone then yes passive attendance maybe acceptable,the question now becomes do we simply ignore the past statement from popes ? like this one, does this statment not make you think twice? or is it just me?

 Pope Pius IX’s encyclical, Graves ac diuturnae.  Speaking of the “Old Catholic” heretics and schismatics, Pius IX says:

 

Pope Pius IX, Graves ac diuturnae (# 4), March 23, 1875: “They [the faithful] should totally shun their religious celebrations, their buildings, and their chairs of pestilence which they have with impunity established to transmit the sacred teachings.  They should shun their writings and all contact with them.  They should not have any dealings or meetings with usurping priests and apostates from the faith who dare to exercise the duties of an ecclesiastical minister without possessing a legitimate mission or any jurisdiction.”

Someone smarter than me will chime in I hope, but I am going to guess that in this case we would be talking about scandal.  Given the time in Church history even passive attendance would be cause for scandal (which is something the aforementioned canon 1258 talks about).