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Author Topic: Charismatic Renewal Defended  (Read 4957 times)

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Charismatic Renewal Defended
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2010, 05:54:06 PM »
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Unfortunately, this confirms you have no Catholic sensibility. If you did, your Catholic conscience would run in horror from the video, as any faithful Catholic would have Pre-VCII before they were "desensitized". The crisis is so grave that "Catholics" now see nothing wrong with heretical Pentecostal "prayer" methods which originated outside the Church, are alien to Her, and open the door to demonic influence.

The Charismatics are the ones who "put God in a box" and dictate to God how it is that He shall be worshiped, ignoring God's instructions on how to properly worship Him which were given for 1960 years.

Charismatic Renewal Defended
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2010, 06:15:36 PM »
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For anybody who thinks the charisms are a new phenomenon, I would recommend reading the various lives of Saints, including the Autobiography of Saint Ignatius and the Little Flowers of St. Francis.
It is the non-Catholic churches which rejected the pentecostal expression of some of their members leading to the establishment of The Pentecostal Holiness church and the Assembly of God.
I had a conversation with a non-Catholic once (a Baptist) who denied the reality of miracles after the time of the Apostles. This is contrary to the rich stories of Saints who used their charisms to heal others or held conversations with a Living God.

Every group to which I have belonged has stressed the importance of discernment, of submission to the magisterium of the Church.


Charismatic Renewal Defended
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2010, 07:21:11 PM »
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I do not respond well to personal insults. The Holy SPirit has been giving these gifts since the Day of Pentecost.

Charismatic Renewal Defended
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2010, 07:21:52 PM »
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stevusmagnus,
I must ask whether or not you believe that the Ordinary Form of the Mass is even valid. The bolded part of your statement above is what makes me ask this question. It also betrays an extremely limited knowledge/view of the Roman Rite of the Mass as well as all the other Latin Rite Masses that have existed and continue to the present day (not to mention the wider context that includes all the various liturgies celebrated in the Christian East [of which I am a member]). Christ did not give us the Tridentine Missal at the Last Supper. Neither has the Tridentine Mass always been the same throughout the ages. I've read that were the Missal of 1962 celebrated for someone who lived immediately after Trent, it would be unrecognizable to that person (forgive me, but I don't remember my source, possibly "History and Future of the Roman Liturgy").

I also note that you've shifted your arguements from Pentecostal "worship" to Pentecostal "prayer methods." I must ask, what makes you an authority in prayer methods and who gives you the authority to judge whether a prayer method is authentic/appropriate or not. I also second the motion that you read the lives and writings of the great saints and see what their "prayer methods" were. A cursory look at St. Teresa of Avila and St. Francis of Assisi will reveal prayer lives that were both heavily emotional as well as contemplative. Also, looking at the writings of Sts. Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross will demonstrate to you that things like "resting in the Spirit" (what they might consider a lower form of ecstacy), visions, locutions, etc. were/are and have always been very common in the spiritual life, especially among those who are actively seeking a deeper relationship with God. They would also emphasize submitting one's experiences to a spiritual guide and to the appropriate authorities of the Church. This is something which most charismatics are very scrupulous about doing.

Finally, before you stand as judge over Franciscan University of Steubenville and what goes on there, I must point out that their entire faculty take an oath of fidelity to the Magisterium at the beginning of every new school year. The University is also very dear to and loved by Pope Benedict XVI (presuming you give any credence to our current Holy Father).

Charismatic Renewal Defended
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2010, 07:29:56 PM »
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Pro-Eucharist, Pro-Mary, Pro-Life, Pro-TRUE Marriage, Pro-NFP, Pro-ROME


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Pro-Eucharist, Pro-Mary, Pro-Life, Pro-TRUE Marriage, Pro-NFP, Pro-ROME

That reminds me, it's time for another NFP thread.  I am going to take one more shot at this topic, and this time I am cool enough to listen to objections.  

That Father Cantalamessa character has something to do with Charismatic Renewal.  It's another of those Vatican II concepts that are maddening and deleterious without being heretical.  

Let's face it, the apostles at Pentecost spoke in tongues.  The problem is that Vatican II Catholics are not Apostles, and this ain't no Pentecost, unless it's the descent of the Holy Ghost's evil twin.