Author Topic: America Needs Fatima, Who? (Read 7227 times)

josefamenendez · « **Reply #10 on:** November 03, 2018, 09:25:09 AM »

Well, they do promote SOME of the very important aspects of the Fatima message- 5 first Saturdays and the Rosary, but they avoid the Consecration of Russia portion like the plague. If "America needs Fatima", ( which it of course DOES) the question is why? If they do not promote the Consecration of Russia by the (a ) Holy Father, all of the promises of avoiding the annihilation of nations, giving us Our Lady's promised period of peace and the reign of the Immaculate Heart is for naught.
I think their position is that it is "too late' for the Consecration ( despite Jesus saying it is never too late to recourse to Jesus and Mary-Tuey 1929) and they would never challenge the consiliar false narrative of the Bertoni Fatima reveal in 2000.
I find them to be neo-con Conservative Catholics, politically anyway.They are gung-ho in the "John McCain" style.
Be that as it may, they pray the Rosary in the public square-a great thing that I have participated in.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #11 on:** November 03, 2018, 10:37:08 AM »

Quote from: Student of Qi on October 16, 2018, 01:05:56 PM

I looked these people up in the past, too. They are indeed a cult, though there are plenty of well meaning people in their group. If you look up the name of their leadrer/founder, Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira, it's all as plain as day.
I may post the article if I find it this evening or later in the week.

No thanks on the article. Anyone is capable of using Google. You may have "looked these people up", but do you actually know them personally? I do. They're not a cult. They're no more a cult than people might say of the SSPX, SSPV, or some other Traditonal Catholic group. Some of their members, e.g. the Heralds, did go off the deep end, but the mainstream TFP, what little is left of it, is not a cult. In the United States in particular, the TFP members are little more than Traditionally-minded Catholics trying to find somewhere they belong ... just like everyone else out there struggling with the crisis.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #12 on:** November 03, 2018, 10:42:38 AM »

Quote from: Alan on November 02, 2018, 10:28:02 PM

I learned to pray the Rosary from these people, I also learned the 4 last things from them, etc.
If not for them, I won't be a practising Catholic today. They've helped many lost Catholics go back to the Church.

So the devil definitely wants people to avoid the TFP like a plague. Thus so many calumnies.

I've had respect for every TFP member I've met so far (and I've met well over a dozen). Again, those are all members of the American TFP. They're very much devoted to Our Lady, and I've seen no trace of the alleged "Plinio-worship" that people are trying to pin on them. That one notorious poem/hymn about Plinio's Mom was obviously a satirical joke rolled out by a couple of their students. In fact, the students who wrote it later admitted that that's exactly what it was. They were making fun of Dr. Plinio and his Mom ... not promoting their worship.

Cera · « **Reply #13 on:** November 03, 2018, 02:40:48 PM »

Bishop Castro de Meyer, in the following letter to a Catholic mother who lost her son to the TFP, spells out why he first believed them to be Catholic and then later realized they are a “heretical sect”. He addresses their “visceral anticlericalism” in which the TFP laity are put above priests. The bishop points out that “although they do not say or write it, TFP lives and behaves in accord with a principle which fundamentally undermines the truth of Christianity, that is, of the Catholic Church.”
    This letter was published in the Campos daily, La Folha de Manhà in 1991. The original text is dated 1984, two years after Bishop de Castro Mayer's break with TFP. It appeared in Le Sel de la Terre, [no. 28, Spring 1999], in an article entitled, "Docuмents sur la T.F.P".

Dear XXXXX,
I owe a response to your grieving letter of September 24, which, as the postmark indicates, you sent me on September 25,1991.
    In this case, I can only offer the sole advice: pray, pray much, above all the Rosary or at least the five decades of the Rosary, asking the Virgin Mother, Mediatrix of all graces, to enlighten your son and make him see that TFP is an heretical sect because, in fact, although they do not say or write it, TFP lives and behaves in accord with a principle which fundamentally undermines the truth of Christianity, that is, of the Catholic Church.
    In fact, it is de fide that Jesus Christ founded His Church------destined to maintain on earth the true worship of God and to lead souls toward eternal salvation---as an unequal society, composed of two classes: one which governs, teaches and sanctifies, composed of members of the clergy, and the other---the faithful---who receive the teaching, are governed and sanctified. This is a de fide dogma.
    St. Pius X wrote that the Church is, in its very nature, an unequal society, meaning that it comprises two orders of persons: shepherds and flocks, those who belong to the various ranks of the Hierarachy and the faithful multitude. These two orders are so completely distinct that the Hierarchy alone has the right and authority to guide and govern the members to the Church's ends, while the duty of the faithful is that of allowing themselves to be governed and to obediently follow the way given by the governing class (The Encyclical, "Vehementer", February 11, 1906) [7].
    And the entire history of the Church. . . attests to this truth as a fundamental dogma of the Church's constitution. It was to the Apostles only that Jesus said: “Go and teach all nations”. Too, the Acts of the Apostles show us the life of the Church in the times following Jesus Christ.
    Because of this, it is an heretical subversion to habitually follow a lay person, ---therefore, not a member of the Hierarchy--- as the spokesman of orthodoxy. Thus, they do not look to what the Church says, what the Bishops say, rather what this or that one says.... Nor does it end there: this attitude------even if not openly avowed---actually positions the "leader" as the arbiter of orthodoxy, and is accompanied by a subtle but real mistrust of the hierarchy and of the clergy in general.
    There is a visceral anticlericalism in TFP: everything that comes from the clergy is prejudicially received. Basically, it holds that all priests are ignorant, not very zealous or interesting, and have other such qualities. Well, then, keeping in mind the divine Constitution of the Church which was instituted by Jesus Christ, TFP's habitual anti-clericalism, latent, makes it an heretical sect, and therefore, as I have said, is animated by a principle contrary to the dogma established by Jesus Christ in the constitution of His Church.
    Nevertheless, TFP had a healthy beginning. There was a certain evolution of the apostolate carried out by the bi-weekly newspaper of the Marian Congregation of St. Cecelia, titled, O Legionario. As a serious and well intentioned movement, it sought to strengthen the intellectual and religious formation of the members of that Congregation and, consequently, of the bi-weekly’s readers. It was influential throughout Brazil. That was the era of [its] obedience to Monsignors Duarte and Leme.
    I accompanied and approved its apostolate, also when it began to stray into an anticlerical spirit, which began by its consolidating its position and then reversing it by putting the clergy in tow behind a charismatic layman, with his monopoly on orthodoxy. Perhaps I gave it support beyond a licit point. I retracted it only when it became clear to me that my warnings were not being taken into consideration. They had become useless.
    I ask that you pray for me, Servant in Christ-Jesus,
Antonio de Castro Mayer, Bishop Emeritus of Campos
http://www.unitypublishing.com/NewReligiousMovements/FatimaCult.html

Cera · « **Reply #14 on:** November 03, 2018, 02:57:13 PM »

(This concerns an offshoot of TFP)

This Secret Catholic Exorcist Cult in Brazil Is Making a Deal With the Devil

ROME—Plinio Correa de Oliveira is almost as peculiar in death as he was in life. Dr. Plinio . . . founded the ultra conservative Tradition, Family and Property Association.
    In death, Dr. Plinio is said to be in close contact with Satan, who supposedly can be channeled by Brazilian exorcists. He also apparently rules the so-called afterlife to such an extent that his followers are convinced he controls climate change and is working toward the death of Pope Francis, according to Andrea Tornielli, who writes the Vatican Insider blog, and has published a series of articles outlining this saga worthy of a Dan Brown bestseller.
    By getting rid of Pope Francis, some of the doctor’s followers believe, the way would be open for the Catholic Church to elect a more conservative leader in line with their more traditional practices.
    After Dr. Plinio died in 1995, the TFP broke into two groups. One retains the TFP name and supports the recent claims of dubia or doubts launched against Pope Francis, which are supported by American Cardinal Raymond Burke. The other group, known as the Heralds of the Gospel, was founded by Monsignor João Scognamiglio Clá Dias and allegedly takes part in cult worship.
    The extent of Plinio’s supernatural proclaimed by Dias (or at least the extent to which his followers exalt him for that perceived power) is the subject of a new inquiry by the Vatican’s Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life, according to Tornielli.
    Specifically, Dr. Plinio’s followers led by Dias are said to be using rogue exorcism practices in which they actually communicate with the devil possessing people rather than chasing him out, as the standard accepted practice in Catholic exorcisms dictates.
    According to Catholic sociologist Massimo Introvigne, who has studied Dr. Plinio’s life work, the Heralds of the Gospel form “a sort of secret and extravagant cult,” with its trinity composed of “Plinio Correa de Oliveira, his mother Donna Lucilia, and Monsignor Clá Días himself.”
    And that sort of devil worship is understandably a problem for the Catholic Church. On June 12, Clá Dias resigned as head and founder of the Herald of Gospels, although Tornielli says he will stay on in what appears to be a consultant-like role.
    "In leaving this assignment I cannot—as I do not wish—before God, to renounce my father's mission,” Dias wrote in his resignation letter, according to Tornielli. “And therefore I will continue to be available to each one, as God made me a living model and guardian of this charism given to me by the Holy Spirit.”
    Particularly damning for the cult-like group is a series of videos on the internet that show exorcisms using practices not authorized by the Catholic Church. They include purported conversations between the exorcists and the devil, which is a no-no in standard exorcism procedures. (Yes, exorcism as such remains a staple of the faith and authorized practitioners are not only recognized but recommended by Pope Francis.)
    “Woe to the exorcist if he loses himself behind curious questions, which the ritual expressly forbids, or if he lets himself be led into a discussion with the devil as he is the master of lies,” Tornielli says, quoting the words of the Church’s most famous exorcist, Father Gabriele Amorth.
    In one passage from a video seen by The Daily Beast, Dias asks one of his minions to read from a transcript that was purportedly jotted down by an observer at one of the rogue exorcisms encompassing what appears to be dialogue between the exorcist and Satan.
    The conversation was stilted, as one might expect with the struggle for the possessed person’s soul, but the gist was that Plinio was randomly “breaking people's computers so that they can’t go on the internet” and that he is changing the climate and was “therefore the author of the climate change, and the increase of heat. It is Plinio who does everything,” according to the devil as channeled through the exorcist. Then, the devil predicts that a meteorite will crash into the Atlantic ocean. “North America will disappear,” he warns.
    The devil then turns to the fate of Pope Francis, which Tornielli was able to transcribe and translate from the somewhat distorted video. “The Vatican? It's mine, mine!” the devil says to the exorcist, according to Tornielli’s transcript. “The pope does whatever I want, he's stupid! He obeys me in everything. He is my glory, he is willing to do everything for me. He serves me.”
    Then the devil, again as channeled by the exorcist for the Heralds of the Gospel, predicts that the pope will perish, not during a voyage, but at the Vatican. “The pope will die falling,” the exorcist’s transcript says quite clearly.
    While much of the Heralds of the Gospel work seems, well, fanciful at best, the Vatican’s investigation is very serious. The Vatican could censure the group or strip it of the blessings of the Catholic Church, which would likely not actually stop them, but instead just push them farther underground. Or it could try to corral them back into the fold and hope they stop having sympathy for the devil.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/this-secret-catholic-exorcist-cult-in-brazil-is-making-a-deal-with-the-devil

CathInfo.com

Author Topic: America Needs Fatima, Who? (Read 7227 times)

josefamenendez

Re: America Needs Fatima, Who?

Ladislaus

Re: America Needs Fatima, Who?

Ladislaus

Re: America Needs Fatima, Who?

Cera

Re: America Needs Fatima, Who?

Cera

Re: America Needs Fatima, Who?