Author Topic: America Needs Fatima, Who?  (Read 2671 times)

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Offline Carissima

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America Needs Fatima, Who?
« on: October 05, 2018, 10:36:00 PM »
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  • What is the truth about this organization? Does anyone here have firsthand knowledge of them, as they stand, in The Church currently?

    Established first as the TFP (Tradition Family Property), then going in a different direction after the passing of their founder Mr. Plinio Correa de Oliveira, who are they now?

    I cannot find good info online, Wiki has only the basics. 
    One thing I found on wiki is that the Southern Poverty Law Center lists the organization as a “virulently anti-LGBT group.”[33]

    Also they are on wiki as being “Ardently anti-Communist, the group's interpretation of Catholic teaching led it to voice its opposition to the Vatican's policy of rapprochement with Communism.[10]

    I receive emails from them almost daily and their militant activism against blasphemy of Our Lord, Mary, and The Church are unmatched, at least as far as I have encountered. 

    I don’t want to join their group, or donate funds, only sign their petitions, participate in Rosary Marches, and possibly purchase a rose to be placed, with my intentions, at the feet of a statue of Mary, in Fatima, for the anniversary of The Miracle of the Sun on the 13th of October. 
    https://americaneedsfatima.org/forms/WEBWR18.html


    Thoughts on America Needs Fatima?

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: America Needs Fatima, Who?
    « Reply #1 on: October 06, 2018, 01:29:35 AM »
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  • Offline Nadir

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    Re: America Needs Fatima, Who?
    « Reply #2 on: October 06, 2018, 01:55:07 AM »
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  • This https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tradition,_Family_and_Property
    seems to be a different page on Wiki than the one you speak of, Carissima.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: America Needs Fatima, Who?
    « Reply #3 on: October 06, 2018, 07:32:14 AM »
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  • The Australian version:
    http://www.fatima.org.au/

    and Oceania:
    http://www.fatima.org.au/oceania/
    .
    The Fatima Center has nothing to do with America Needs Fatima, but it looks like ANF has managed to use the "fatima.org" domain for Australia and Oceania, since it entails the extension -.au (for Australia). In America, fatima.org belongs to the Fatima Center, founded by Fr. Nicholas Gruner (RIP). Fr. Gruner was in no way associated with the ANF branch of TF&P. He was, however, loosely associated with TIA. One joint project, We Resist You to the Face, was co-authored by Guimaraes and Marian T. Horvat, PhD., along with 2 of Fr. Gruner's regulars, John Vennari (of Catholic Family News) and Michael J. Matt (of The Remnant). 
    .
    The founder of TIA, Atila Sinke Guimaraes, has an associate, Marian T. Horvat, and together they edit materials in English and Portuguese very well. TIA has a selection of books they've published including the many-volume Eli, Eli, Lama Sabachthani.
    .
    Marian Horvat's brother, John Horvat II, is vice president and member of the board of directors of ANF. But as far as I know these 2 siblings have very little association with each other's office. They might write letters to each other but they don't have any joint projects, from what I've heard.
    .
    The ANF group is basically Novus Ordo, and most of their membership is in Newchurch.
    .
    TIA is absolutely TLM, and diligently seeks to promote the Latin Mass, recommending against everything Novus Ordo.
    I guess you would call them Recognize & Resist.
    But they have been a longstanding advocate of the fake Sister Lucia theory, long before Peter Chojnowski took it up.
    I've had the impression that ANF would have nothing to do with the fake Sr. Lucy concept.
    It seems to me they'd be terrified of alienating most of their followers that way, which might be the case in fact.
    .
    I know Trads who are very appreciative of the ANF projects, since they take the Rosary to the streets without compromise.
    Their demonstrations and public Rosaries eagerly invite the participation of all comers, and Protestants join in to pray the Rosary.
    I have no idea how they explain the concept of "getting together to pray, but not praying together" like JPII at Assisi I & II did.
    .
    A friend recently told me about a local Novus Ordo parish that had announced a public Rosary at the Church, in Simi Valley.
    She was anticipating having it outside, on the sidewalk, where everyone can see it.
    That's the way ANF does these Rosaries, often at public parks with soccer games going on all around, and the like.
    But when the day arrived, everyone was inside the church, so my friend sought out an explanation from the parish office.
    They explained to her that the Knights of Columbus had stepped in to run the Rosary, and they wanted to keep it indoors.
    My friend was quite disappointed, because, she said, how can you expect to spread the Faith when you hide out of sight?
    For this reason, she is an outspoken advocate of ANF, and thinks they are doing a lot of good.
    .
    I was involved about 20 years ago with organizing a home Pilgrim Virgin of Fatima visit from the ANF group.
    They set up the date, and tell you how to invite friends and neighbors for the ceremony.
    They show up with their Virgin Mary of Fatima statue, and get all set up with decorations and literature in your home.
    There is a prayer sequence they lead, which includes a Rosary and then a short speech by the ANF representative.
    At the end he encourages everyone to drop some *money* into the conspicuously perched box with a small opening in the top.
    When everyone is finished, the rep picks up all his stuff, beginning with the BOX, and carries the statue etc. out to his minivan.
    They obviously are well-rehearsed and use the same format wherever they go, I would suppose.
    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline drew

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    Re: America Needs Fatima, Who?
    « Reply #4 on: October 06, 2018, 02:57:24 PM »
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  • .
    The Fatima Center has nothing to do with America Needs Fatima, but it looks like ANF has managed to use the "fatima.org" domain for Australia and Oceania, since it entails the extension -.au (for Australia). In America, fatima.org belongs to the Fatima Center, founded by Fr. Nicholas Gruner (RIP). Fr. Gruner was in no way associated with the ANF branch of TF&P. He was, however, loosely associated with TIA. One joint project, We Resist You to the Face, was co-authored by Guimaraes and Marian T. Horvat, PhD., along with 2 of Fr. Gruner's regulars, John Vennari (of Catholic Family News) and Michael J. Matt (of The Remnant).
    .
    The founder of TIA, Atila Sinke Guimaraes, has an associate, Marian T. Horvat, and together they edit materials in English and Portuguese very well. TIA has a selection of books they've published including the many-volume Eli, Eli, Lama Sabachthani.
    .
    Marian Horvat's brother, John Horvat II, is vice president and member of the board of directors of ANF. But as far as I know these 2 siblings have very little association with each other's office. They might write letters to each other but they don't have any joint projects, from what I've heard.
    .
    The ANF group is basically Novus Ordo, and most of their membership is in Newchurch.
    .
    TIA is absolutely TLM, and diligently seeks to promote the Latin Mass, recommending against everything Novus Ordo.
    I guess you would call them Recognize & Resist.
    But they have been a longstanding advocate of the fake Sister Lucia theory, long before Peter Chojnowski took it up.
    I've had the impression that ANF would have nothing to do with the fake Sr. Lucy concept.
    It seems to me they'd be terrified of alienating most of their followers that way, which might be the case in fact.
    .
    I know Trads who are very appreciative of the ANF projects, since they take the Rosary to the streets without compromise.
    Their demonstrations and public Rosaries eagerly invite the participation of all comers, and Protestants join in to pray the Rosary.
    I have no idea how they explain the concept of "getting together to pray, but not praying together" like JPII at Assisi I & II did.
    .
    A friend recently told me about a local Novus Ordo parish that had announced a public Rosary at the Church, in Simi Valley.
    She was anticipating having it outside, on the sidewalk, where everyone can see it.
    That's the way ANF does these Rosaries, often at public parks with soccer games going on all around, and the like.
    But when the day arrived, everyone was inside the church, so my friend sought out an explanation from the parish office.
    They explained to her that the Knights of Columbus had stepped in to run the Rosary, and they wanted to keep it indoors.
    My friend was quite disappointed, because, she said, how can you expect to spread the Faith when you hide out of sight?
    For this reason, she is an outspoken advocate of ANF, and thinks they are doing a lot of good.
    .
    I was involved about 20 years ago with organizing a home Pilgrim Virgin of Fatima visit from the ANF group.
    They set up the date, and tell you how to invite friends and neighbors for the ceremony.
    They show up with their Virgin Mary of Fatima statue, and get all set up with decorations and literature in your home.
    There is a prayer sequence they lead, which includes a Rosary and then a short speech by the ANF representative.
    At the end he encourages everyone to drop some *money* into the conspicuously perched box with a small opening in the top.
    When everyone is finished, the rep picks up all his stuff, beginning with the BOX, and carries the statue etc. out to his minivan.
    They obviously are well-rehearsed and use the same format wherever they go, I would suppose.
    .


    There is a standing joke around here that when "America Needs Fatima (ANF), the TFP needs money."

    When the TFP began the ANF campaign with the first publication of Crusade magazine they claimed to be revealing the third secret. What they published was an early 1960s claim to be the third secret that was discredited long ago, almost directly after having been published.  

    I got to know them well after they purchased the old Glatfelter estate in Spring Grove, PA about five miles from my home.  I called the TFP and ask to meet with them.  I had a nice meeting with their directors at their headquarters which I explained to them the errors in their first edition and brought them a lot of material from Fr. Gruner including the three volume work by Frere Michel de la Sainte Trinite, The Whole Truth About Fatima.  I spoke to them for about 45 minutes in which they listened very attentively and did not say a word in reply. They thanked me an took my material which I know they read very carefully because their next issue of the Crusade did a complete about face on the Fatima story. They plagiarized all of Fr. Grunner's material as if it were their own and never, not once ever, gave any credit to Fr. Gruner.  And since they have a policy of never criticizing any of the Church hierarchy, they never offered any defense of Fr. Gruner when he was publicly persecuted in his work to make the message of Fatima known.

    I had a similar experience with the TFP when discussing the social kingship of Christ the King.  Sitting at a table with at least a dozen members of TFP, we were in complete agreement and I could not criticize anything that was said except this: not one of them ever heard of Fr. Denis Fahey or Cardinal Louis-Édouard-François-Desiré Pie. They attributed the entire Catholic theological teaching on the social kingship of Christ to Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira.  

    ANF is used primarily to generate income for the TFP.  They had a real crisis when Rome claimed to have revealed the entirety of the third secret. They did not believe that the entire secret had been revealed but since they will not publicly contradict any Roman policy, they did not know what to do. They then sent a questionnaire and canvassed their supporters to get a feel if Fatima was worth continuing since it was now a historical interest only.  The reason Atila Guimaraes of Tradition In Action left the TFP is because they were opposed to the publication of "ELI, ELI, LAMA SABACTHANI."  Although TIA has a lot of good and useful information, Atila still promotes the geopolitical view of the TFP.  He may end up being the last guy in the world to admit the that 9-11 was an inside job.  He still to this day defends the conquest of Iraq including the bombing of inner city civilian population in Bagdad.

    If you want evidence that the TFP is a cult try to get one of their directors to say the name of "Atila Guimaraes" in front of witnesses.  Just ask them how it should be properly pronounced. The TFP makes a solemn oath to God never to repeat the name of anyone expelled from the organization.  

    Drew

     


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: America Needs Fatima, Who?
    « Reply #5 on: October 06, 2018, 03:08:01 PM »
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  • One thing I found on wiki is that the Southern Poverty Law Center lists the organization as a “virulently anti-LGBT group.”

    Anyone so condemned by the SPLC cannot be all that bad.

    I know a lot of TFP members, and they seem to be good, devout, Traditionally-minded Catholics (albeit mostly of the Motu, ICK, FSSP variety).

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: America Needs Fatima, Who?
    « Reply #6 on: October 06, 2018, 03:11:31 PM »
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  • Although TIA has a lot of good and useful information, Atila still promotes the geopolitical view of the TFP.  He may end up being the last guy in the world to admit the that 9-11 was an inside job.  He still to this day defends the conquest of Iraq including the bombing of inner city civilian population in Bagdad. 

    Yes, they're extremely anti-Muslim but deathly afraid of saying anything negative about the Jews.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: America Needs Fatima, Who?
    « Reply #7 on: October 15, 2018, 09:28:52 PM »
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  • There is a standing joke around here that when "America Needs Fatima (ANF), the TFP needs money."

    When the TFP began the ANF campaign with the first publication of Crusade magazine they claimed to be revealing the third secret. What they published was an early 1960s claim to be the third secret that was discredited long ago, almost directly after having been published.  

    I got to know them well after they purchased the old Glatfelter estate in Spring Grove, PA about five miles from my home.  I called the TFP and ask to meet with them.  I had a nice meeting with their directors at their headquarters which I explained to them the errors in their first edition and brought them a lot of material from Fr. Gruner including the three volume work by Frere Michel de la Sainte Trinite, The Whole Truth About Fatima.  I spoke to them for about 45 minutes in which they listened very attentively and did not say a word in reply. They thanked me an took my material which I know they read very carefully because their next issue of the Crusade did a complete about face on the Fatima story. They plagiarized all of Fr. Grunner's material as if it were their own and never, not once ever, gave any credit to Fr. Gruner.  And since they have a policy of never criticizing any of the Church hierarchy, they never offered any defense of Fr. Gruner when he was publicly persecuted in his work to make the message of Fatima known.

    I had a similar experience with the TFP when discussing the social kingship of Christ the King.  Sitting at a table with at least a dozen members of TFP, we were in complete agreement and I could not criticize anything that was said except this: not one of them ever heard of Fr. Denis Fahey or Cardinal Louis-Édouard-François-Desiré Pie. They attributed the entire Catholic theological teaching on the social kingship of Christ to Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira.  

    ANF is used primarily to generate income for the TFP.  They had a real crisis when Rome claimed to have revealed the entirety of the third secret. They did not believe that the entire secret had been revealed but since they will not publicly contradict any Roman policy, they did not know what to do. They then sent a questionnaire and canvassed their supporters to get a feel if Fatima was worth continuing since it was now a historical interest only.  The reason Atila Guimaraes of Tradition In Action left the TFP is because they were opposed to the publication of "ELI, ELI, LAMA SABACTHANI."  Although TIA has a lot of good and useful information, Atila still promotes the geopolitical view of the TFP.  He may end up being the last guy in the world to admit the that 9-11 was an inside job.  He still to this day defends the conquest of Iraq including the bombing of inner city civilian population in Baghdad.

    If you want evidence that the TFP is a cult try to get one of their directors to say the name of "Atila Guimaraes" in front of witnesses.  Just ask them how it should be properly pronounced. The TFP makes a solemn oath to God never to repeat the name of anyone expelled from the organization.  

    Drew
    .
    That's interesting stuff, Drew; thank you! 
    .
    I recall being a bit puzzled when I heard Atila confidently say the Iraq bombing campaign was "a JUST war." 
    It wasn't even declared, so how could it have been a "war" let alone "just?" I guess to the people getting blown up, it was a "war."
    I recall wanting to sit down and talk to him about 9-11, but could see he had absolutely no room for discussion on the matter.
    To this day I don't know what his explanation is for Building 7, or the nano thermite globules in all the samples of asbestos dust.
    Or how Larry Silverstein took out an enormous insurance policy that went into effect just days before 9-11, and he collected on it.
    .
    I've had lingering questions about TFP / ANF over the years, and your words go to serious lengths to fill in some gaps. Your version of your meetings with them are poignant. It's not easy to get Guimaraes or Marian Horvat to say much about them; now your telling us that the TFP makes a solemn oath to God never to repeat the name of anyone expelled" totally sheds new light on the situation. I knew that Atila was resentful of not getting help with the publishing of his multi-volume masterpiece but I didn't know that was why he parted ways and whatnot. 
    .
    When I wrote this:
    A friend recently told me about a local Novus Ordo parish that had announced a public Rosary at the Church, in Simi Valley.
    She was anticipating having it outside, on the sidewalk, where everyone can see it.
    That's the way ANF does these Rosaries, often at public parks with soccer games going on all around, and the like.
    But when the day arrived, everyone was inside the church, so my friend sought out an explanation from the parish office.
    They explained to her that the Knights of Columbus had stepped in to run the Rosary, and they wanted to keep it indoors.
    My friend was quite disappointed, because, she said, how can you expect to spread the Faith when you hide out of sight?
    For this reason, she is an outspoken advocate of ANF, and thinks they are doing a lot of good.
    .
    ...I was referring to the nationwide Rosary rally ANF organized which occurred this past Saturday, Oct. 13th, on the 101st anniversary of the Miracle of the Sun. I had friends asking me if I managed to go anywhere to join in a public Rosary. The ones who told me about the planned event in Simi Valley, above, reported that they went and found that it was just as they had predicted, that the Knights of Columbus had taken over the operation at that parish and wanted to keep all the people praying the Rosary inside the church. ANF likes to do their Rosaries out in the open where passers-by can see them. 
    .
    There was a group of Catholics who broke rank and went outside anyway, praying their Rosary while walking on the sidewalks, but they say the ANF representatives remained in the church, out of obedience to the pastor who had given charge of the leadership to the KofC. So it would seem that ANF is reluctant to stand up and proceed as planned when a pastor and his goons pretend to have authority over them. This fits in quite well with your description, above, Drew. FYI.

    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline Student of Qi

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    Re: America Needs Fatima, Who?
    « Reply #8 on: October 16, 2018, 01:05:56 PM »
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  • There is a standing joke around here that when "America Needs Fatima (ANF), the TFP needs money."

    When the TFP began the ANF campaign with the first publication of Crusade magazine they claimed to be revealing the third secret. What they published was an early 1960s claim to be the third secret that was discredited long ago, almost directly after having been published.  

    I got to know them well after they purchased the old Glatfelter estate in Spring Grove, PA about five miles from my home.  I called the TFP and ask to meet with them.  I had a nice meeting with their directors at their headquarters which I explained to them the errors in their first edition and brought them a lot of material from Fr. Gruner including the three volume work by Frere Michel de la Sainte Trinite, The Whole Truth About Fatima.  I spoke to them for about 45 minutes in which they listened very attentively and did not say a word in reply. They thanked me an took my material which I know they read very carefully because their next issue of the Crusade did a complete about face on the Fatima story. They plagiarized all of Fr. Grunner's material as if it were their own and never, not once ever, gave any credit to Fr. Gruner.  And since they have a policy of never criticizing any of the Church hierarchy, they never offered any defense of Fr. Gruner when he was publicly persecuted in his work to make the message of Fatima known.

    I had a similar experience with the TFP when discussing the social kingship of Christ the King.  Sitting at a table with at least a dozen members of TFP, we were in complete agreement and I could not criticize anything that was said except this: not one of them ever heard of Fr. Denis Fahey or Cardinal Louis-Édouard-François-Desiré Pie. They attributed the entire Catholic theological teaching on the social kingship of Christ to Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira.  

    ANF is used primarily to generate income for the TFP.  They had a real crisis when Rome claimed to have revealed the entirety of the third secret. They did not believe that the entire secret had been revealed but since they will not publicly contradict any Roman policy, they did not know what to do. They then sent a questionnaire and canvassed their supporters to get a feel if Fatima was worth continuing since it was now a historical interest only.  The reason Atila Guimaraes of Tradition In Action left the TFP is because they were opposed to the publication of "ELI, ELI, LAMA SABACTHANI."  Although TIA has a lot of good and useful information, Atila still promotes the geopolitical view of the TFP.  He may end up being the last guy in the world to admit the that 9-11 was an inside job.  He still to this day defends the conquest of Iraq including the bombing of inner city civilian population in Bagdad.

    If you want evidence that the TFP is a cult try to get one of their directors to say the name of "Atila Guimaraes" in front of witnesses.  Just ask them how it should be properly pronounced. The TFP makes a solemn oath to God never to repeat the name of anyone expelled from the organization.  

    Drew

     
    I looked these people up in the past, too. They are indeed a cult, though there are plenty of well meaning people in their group. If you look up the name of their leadrer/founder, Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira, it's all as plain as day.
    I may post the article if I find it this evening or later in the week.
    Many people say "For the Honor and Glory of God!" but, what they should say is "For the Love, Glory and Honor of God". - Fr. Paul of Moll

    Offline Alan

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    Re: America Needs Fatima, Who?
    « Reply #9 on: November 02, 2018, 10:28:02 PM »
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  • I looked these people up in the past, too. They are indeed a cult, though there are plenty of well meaning people in their group. If you look up the name of their leadrer/founder, Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira, it's all as plain as day.
    I may post the article if I find it this evening or later in the week.


    I learned to pray the Rosary from these people, I also learned the 4 last things from them, etc.
    If not for them, I won't be a practising Catholic today. They've helped many lost Catholics go back to the Church. 

    So the devil definitely wants people to avoid the TFP like a plague. Thus so many calumnies.

    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: America Needs Fatima, Who?
    « Reply #10 on: November 03, 2018, 09:25:09 AM »
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  • Well, they do promote SOME of the very important aspects of the Fatima message- 5 first Saturdays and the Rosary, but they avoid the Consecration of Russia portion like the plague. If "America needs Fatima", ( which it of course DOES) the question is why? If they do not promote the Consecration of Russia by the (a ) Holy Father, all of the promises of avoiding the annihilation of nations, giving us Our Lady's promised period of peace and the reign of the Immaculate Heart is for naught.
    I think their position is that it is "too late' for the Consecration ( despite Jesus saying it is never too late to recourse to Jesus and Mary-Tuey 1929) and they would never challenge the consiliar false narrative of the Bertoni Fatima reveal in 2000.
    I find them to be neo-con Conservative Catholics, politically anyway.They are gung-ho in the "John McCain" style.
    Be that as it may, they pray the Rosary in the public square-a great thing that I have participated in.


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: America Needs Fatima, Who?
    « Reply #11 on: November 03, 2018, 10:37:08 AM »
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  • I looked these people up in the past, too. They are indeed a cult, though there are plenty of well meaning people in their group. If you look up the name of their leadrer/founder, Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira, it's all as plain as day.
    I may post the article if I find it this evening or later in the week.

    No thanks on the article.  Anyone is capable of using Google.  You may have "looked these people up", but do you actually know them personally?  I do.  They're not a cult.  They're no more a cult than people might say of the SSPX, SSPV, or some other Traditonal Catholic group.  Some of their members, e.g. the Heralds, did go off the deep end, but the mainstream TFP, what little is left of it, is not a cult.  In the United States in particular, the TFP members are little more than Traditionally-minded Catholics trying to find somewhere they belong ... just like everyone else out there struggling with the crisis.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: America Needs Fatima, Who?
    « Reply #12 on: November 03, 2018, 10:42:38 AM »
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  • I learned to pray the Rosary from these people, I also learned the 4 last things from them, etc.
    If not for them, I won't be a practising Catholic today. They've helped many lost Catholics go back to the Church.

    So the devil definitely wants people to avoid the TFP like a plague. Thus so many calumnies.

    I've had respect for every TFP member I've met so far (and I've met well over a dozen).  Again, those are all members of the American TFP.  They're very much devoted to Our Lady, and I've seen no trace of the alleged "Plinio-worship" that people are trying to pin on them.  That one notorious poem/hymn about Plinio's Mom was obviously a satirical joke rolled out by a couple of their students.  In fact, the students who wrote it later admitted that that's exactly what it was.  They were making fun of Dr. Plinio and his Mom ... not promoting their worship.

    Offline Cera

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    Re: America Needs Fatima, Who?
    « Reply #13 on: November 03, 2018, 02:40:48 PM »
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  • Bishop Castro de Meyer, in the following letter to a Catholic mother who lost her son to the TFP, spells out why he first believed them to be Catholic and then later realized they are a “heretical sect”. He addresses their “visceral anticlericalism” in which the TFP laity are put above priests. The bishop points out that “although they do not say or write it, TFP lives and behaves in accord with a principle which fundamentally undermines the truth of Christianity, that is, of the Catholic Church.”
        This letter was published in the Campos daily, La Folha de Manhà in 1991. The original text is dated 1984, two years after Bishop de Castro Mayer's break with TFP. It appeared in Le Sel de la Terre, [no. 28, Spring 1999], in an article entitled, "Documents sur la T.F.P".
                                       
    Dear XXXXX,
    I owe a response to your grieving letter of September 24, which, as the postmark indicates, you sent me on September 25,1991.
        In this case, I can only offer the sole advice: pray, pray much, above all the Rosary or at least the five decades of the Rosary, asking the Virgin Mother, Mediatrix of all graces, to enlighten your son and make him see that TFP is an heretical sect because, in fact, although they do not say or write it, TFP lives and behaves in accord with a principle which fundamentally undermines the truth of Christianity, that is, of the Catholic Church.
        In fact, it is de fide that Jesus Christ founded His Church------destined to maintain on earth the true worship of God and to lead souls toward eternal salvation---as an unequal society, composed of two classes: one which governs, teaches and sanctifies, composed of members of the clergy, and the other---the faithful---who receive the teaching, are governed and sanctified. This is a de fide dogma.
        St. Pius X wrote that the Church is, in its very nature, an unequal society, meaning that it comprises two orders of persons: shepherds and flocks, those who belong to the various ranks of the Hierarachy and the faithful multitude. These two orders are so completely distinct that the Hierarchy alone has the right and authority to guide and govern the members to the Church's ends, while the duty of the faithful is that of allowing themselves to be governed and to obediently follow the way given by the governing class (The Encyclical, "Vehementer", February 11, 1906) [7].
        And the entire history of the Church. . .  attests to this truth as a fundamental dogma of the Church's constitution. It was to the Apostles only that Jesus said: “Go and teach all nations”. Too, the Acts of the Apostles show us the life of the Church in the times following Jesus Christ.
        Because of this, it is an heretical subversion to habitually follow a lay person, ---therefore, not a member of the Hierarchy--- as the spokesman of orthodoxy. Thus, they do not look to what the Church says, what the Bishops say, rather what this or that one says.... Nor does it end there: this attitude------even if not openly avowed---actually positions the "leader" as the arbiter of orthodoxy, and is accompanied by a subtle but real mistrust of the hierarchy and of the clergy in general.
        There is a visceral anticlericalism in TFP: everything that comes from the clergy is prejudicially received. Basically, it holds that all priests are ignorant, not very zealous or interesting, and have other such qualities. Well, then, keeping in mind the divine Constitution of the Church which was instituted by Jesus Christ, TFP's habitual anti-clericalism, latent, makes it an heretical sect, and therefore, as I have said, is animated by a principle contrary to the dogma established by Jesus Christ in the constitution of His Church.
        Nevertheless, TFP had a healthy beginning. There was a certain evolution of the apostolate carried out by the bi-weekly newspaper of the Marian Congregation of St. Cecelia, titled, O Legionario. As a serious and well intentioned movement, it sought to strengthen the intellectual and religious formation of the members of that Congregation and, consequently, of the bi-weekly’s readers. It was influential throughout Brazil. That was the era of [its] obedience to Monsignors Duarte and Leme.
        I accompanied and approved its apostolate, also when it began to stray into an anticlerical spirit, which began by its consolidating its position and then reversing it by putting the clergy in tow behind a charismatic layman, with his monopoly on orthodoxy. Perhaps I gave it support beyond a licit point. I retracted it only when it became clear to me that my warnings were not being taken into consideration. They had become useless.
        I ask that you pray for me, Servant in Christ-Jesus,
    Antonio de Castro Mayer, Bishop Emeritus of Campos
    http://www.unitypublishing.com/NewReligiousMovements/FatimaCult.html
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    Offline Cera

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    Re: America Needs Fatima, Who?
    « Reply #14 on: November 03, 2018, 02:57:13 PM »
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  • (This concerns an offshoot of TFP)

    This Secret Catholic Exorcist Cult in Brazil Is Making a Deal With the Devil

    ROME—Plinio Correa de Oliveira is almost as peculiar in death as he was in life. Dr. Plinio . . . founded the ultra conservative Tradition, Family and Property Association.
        In death, Dr. Plinio is said to be in close contact with Satan, who supposedly can be channeled by Brazilian exorcists. He also apparently rules the so-called afterlife to such an extent that his followers are convinced he controls climate change and is working toward the death of Pope Francis, according to Andrea Tornielli, who writes the Vatican Insider blog, and has published a series of articles outlining this saga worthy of a Dan Brown bestseller.
        By getting rid of Pope Francis, some of the doctor’s followers believe, the way would be open for the Catholic Church to elect a more conservative leader in line with their more traditional practices.
        After Dr. Plinio died in 1995, the TFP broke into two groups. One retains the TFP name and supports the recent claims of dubia or doubts launched against Pope Francis, which are supported by American Cardinal Raymond Burke. The other group, known as the Heralds of the Gospel, was founded by Monsignor João Scognamiglio Clá Dias and allegedly takes part in cult worship.
        The extent of Plinio’s supernatural proclaimed by Dias (or at least the extent to which his followers exalt him for that perceived power) is the subject of a new inquiry by the Vatican’s Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life, according to Tornielli.
        Specifically, Dr. Plinio’s followers led by Dias are said to be using rogue exorcism practices in which they actually communicate with the devil possessing people rather than chasing him out, as the standard accepted practice in Catholic exorcisms dictates.
        According to Catholic sociologist Massimo Introvigne, who has studied Dr. Plinio’s life work, the Heralds of the Gospel form “a sort of secret and extravagant cult,” with its trinity composed of “Plinio Correa de Oliveira, his mother Donna Lucilia, and Monsignor Clá Días himself.”
        And that sort of devil worship is understandably a problem for the Catholic Church. On June 12, Clá Dias resigned as head and founder of the Herald of Gospels, although Tornielli says he will stay on in what appears to be a consultant-like role.
        "In leaving this assignment I cannot—as I do not wish—before God, to renounce my father's mission,” Dias wrote in his resignation letter, according to Tornielli. “And therefore I will continue to be available to each one, as God made me a living model and guardian of this charism given to me by the Holy Spirit.”
        Particularly damning for the cult-like group is a series of videos on the internet that show exorcisms using practices not authorized by the Catholic Church. They include purported  conversations between the exorcists and the devil, which is a no-no in standard exorcism procedures. (Yes, exorcism as such remains a staple of the faith and authorized practitioners are not only recognized but recommended by Pope Francis.)
        “Woe to the exorcist if he loses himself behind curious questions, which the ritual expressly forbids, or if he lets himself be led into a discussion with the devil as he is the master of lies,” Tornielli says, quoting the words of the Church’s most famous exorcist, Father Gabriele Amorth.
        In one passage from a video seen by The Daily Beast, Dias asks one of his minions to read from a transcript that was purportedly jotted down by an observer at one of the rogue exorcisms encompassing what appears to be dialogue between the exorcist and Satan.
        The conversation was stilted, as one might expect with the struggle for the possessed person’s soul, but the gist was that Plinio was randomly “breaking people's computers so that they can’t go on the internet” and that he is changing the climate and was “therefore the author of the climate change, and the increase of heat. It is Plinio who does everything,” according to the devil as channeled through the exorcist. Then, the devil predicts that a meteorite will crash into the Atlantic ocean. “North America will disappear,” he warns.
        The devil then turns to the fate of Pope Francis, which Tornielli was able to transcribe and translate from the somewhat distorted video. “The Vatican? It's mine, mine!” the devil says to the exorcist, according to Tornielli’s transcript. “The pope does whatever I want, he's stupid! He obeys me in everything. He is my glory, he is willing to do everything for me. He serves me.”
        Then the devil, again as channeled by the exorcist for the Heralds of the Gospel, predicts that the pope will perish, not during a voyage, but at the Vatican. “The pope will die falling,” the exorcist’s transcript says quite clearly.
        While much of the Heralds of the Gospel work seems, well, fanciful at best, the Vatican’s investigation is very serious. The Vatican could censure the group or strip it of the blessings of the Catholic Church, which would likely not actually stop them, but instead just push them farther underground. Or it could try to corral them back into the fold and hope they stop having sympathy for the devil.
     
    https://www.thedailybeast.com/this-secret-catholic-exorcist-cult-in-brazil-is-making-a-deal-with-the-devil


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