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Author Topic: America Needs Fatima, Who?  (Read 7242 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: America Needs Fatima, Who?
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2018, 03:08:01 PM »
One thing I found on wiki is that the Southern Poverty Law Center lists the organization as a “virulently anti-LGBT group.”

Anyone so condemned by the SPLC cannot be all that bad.

I know a lot of TFP members, and they seem to be good, devout, Traditionally-minded Catholics (albeit mostly of the Motu, ICK, FSSP variety).

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: America Needs Fatima, Who?
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2018, 03:11:31 PM »
Although TIA has a lot of good and useful information, Atila still promotes the geopolitical view of the TFP.  He may end up being the last guy in the world to admit the that 9-11 was an inside job.  He still to this day defends the conquest of Iraq including the bombing of inner city civilian population in Bagdad. 

Yes, they're extremely anti-Muslim but deathly afraid of saying anything negative about the Jews.


Re: America Needs Fatima, Who?
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2018, 09:28:52 PM »

There is a standing joke around here that when "America Needs Fatima (ANF), the TFP needs money."

When the TFP began the ANF campaign with the first publication of Crusade magazine they claimed to be revealing the third secret. What they published was an early 1960s claim to be the third secret that was discredited long ago, almost directly after having been published.  

I got to know them well after they purchased the old Glatfelter estate in Spring Grove, PA about five miles from my home.  I called the TFP and ask to meet with them.  I had a nice meeting with their directors at their headquarters which I explained to them the errors in their first edition and brought them a lot of material from Fr. Gruner including the three volume work by Frere Michel de la Sainte Trinite, The Whole Truth About Fatima.  I spoke to them for about 45 minutes in which they listened very attentively and did not say a word in reply. They thanked me an took my material which I know they read very carefully because their next issue of the Crusade did a complete about face on the Fatima story. They plagiarized all of Fr. Grunner's material as if it were their own and never, not once ever, gave any credit to Fr. Gruner.  And since they have a policy of never criticizing any of the Church hierarchy, they never offered any defense of Fr. Gruner when he was publicly persecuted in his work to make the message of Fatima known.

I had a similar experience with the TFP when discussing the social kingship of Christ the King.  Sitting at a table with at least a dozen members of TFP, we were in complete agreement and I could not criticize anything that was said except this: not one of them ever heard of Fr. Denis Fahey or Cardinal Louis-Édouard-François-Desiré Pie. They attributed the entire Catholic theological teaching on the social kingship of Christ to Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira.  

ANF is used primarily to generate income for the TFP.  They had a real crisis when Rome claimed to have revealed the entirety of the third secret. They did not believe that the entire secret had been revealed but since they will not publicly contradict any Roman policy, they did not know what to do. They then sent a questionnaire and canvassed their supporters to get a feel if Fatima was worth continuing since it was now a historical interest only.  The reason Atila Guimaraes of Tradition In Action left the TFP is because they were opposed to the publication of "ELI, ELI, LAMA SABACTHANI."  Although TIA has a lot of good and useful information, Atila still promotes the geopolitical view of the TFP.  He may end up being the last guy in the world to admit the that 9-11 was an inside job.  He still to this day defends the conquest of Iraq including the bombing of inner city civilian population in Baghdad.

If you want evidence that the TFP is a cult try to get one of their directors to say the name of "Atila Guimaraes" in front of witnesses.  Just ask them how it should be properly pronounced. The TFP makes a solemn oath to God never to repeat the name of anyone expelled from the organization.  

Drew
.
That's interesting stuff, Drew; thank you! 
.
I recall being a bit puzzled when I heard Atila confidently say the Iraq bombing campaign was "a JUST war." 
It wasn't even declared, so how could it have been a "war" let alone "just?" I guess to the people getting blown up, it was a "war."
I recall wanting to sit down and talk to him about 9-11, but could see he had absolutely no room for discussion on the matter.
To this day I don't know what his explanation is for Building 7, or the nano thermite globules in all the samples of asbestos dust.
Or how Larry Silverstein took out an enormous insurance policy that went into effect just days before 9-11, and he collected on it.
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I've had lingering questions about TFP / ANF over the years, and your words go to serious lengths to fill in some gaps. Your version of your meetings with them are poignant. It's not easy to get Guimaraes or Marian Horvat to say much about them; now your telling us that the TFP makes a solemn oath to God never to repeat the name of anyone expelled" totally sheds new light on the situation. I knew that Atila was resentful of not getting help with the publishing of his multi-volume masterpiece but I didn't know that was why he parted ways and whatnot. 
.
When I wrote this:
A friend recently told me about a local Novus Ordo parish that had announced a public Rosary at the Church, in Simi Valley.
She was anticipating having it outside, on the sidewalk, where everyone can see it.
That's the way ANF does these Rosaries, often at public parks with soccer games going on all around, and the like.
But when the day arrived, everyone was inside the church, so my friend sought out an explanation from the parish office.
They explained to her that the Knights of Columbus had stepped in to run the Rosary, and they wanted to keep it indoors.
My friend was quite disappointed, because, she said, how can you expect to spread the Faith when you hide out of sight?
For this reason, she is an outspoken advocate of ANF, and thinks they are doing a lot of good.
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...I was referring to the nationwide Rosary rally ANF organized which occurred this past Saturday, Oct. 13th, on the 101st anniversary of the Miracle of the Sun. I had friends asking me if I managed to go anywhere to join in a public Rosary. The ones who told me about the planned event in Simi Valley, above, reported that they went and found that it was just as they had predicted, that the Knights of Columbus had taken over the operation at that parish and wanted to keep all the people praying the Rosary inside the church. ANF likes to do their Rosaries out in the open where passers-by can see them. 
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There was a group of Catholics who broke rank and went outside anyway, praying their Rosary while walking on the sidewalks, but they say the ANF representatives remained in the church, out of obedience to the pastor who had given charge of the leadership to the KofC. So it would seem that ANF is reluctant to stand up and proceed as planned when a pastor and his goons pretend to have authority over them. This fits in quite well with your description, above, Drew. FYI.


Re: America Needs Fatima, Who?
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2018, 01:05:56 PM »

There is a standing joke around here that when "America Needs Fatima (ANF), the TFP needs money."

When the TFP began the ANF campaign with the first publication of Crusade magazine they claimed to be revealing the third secret. What they published was an early 1960s claim to be the third secret that was discredited long ago, almost directly after having been published.  

I got to know them well after they purchased the old Glatfelter estate in Spring Grove, PA about five miles from my home.  I called the TFP and ask to meet with them.  I had a nice meeting with their directors at their headquarters which I explained to them the errors in their first edition and brought them a lot of material from Fr. Gruner including the three volume work by Frere Michel de la Sainte Trinite, The Whole Truth About Fatima.  I spoke to them for about 45 minutes in which they listened very attentively and did not say a word in reply. They thanked me an took my material which I know they read very carefully because their next issue of the Crusade did a complete about face on the Fatima story. They plagiarized all of Fr. Grunner's material as if it were their own and never, not once ever, gave any credit to Fr. Gruner.  And since they have a policy of never criticizing any of the Church hierarchy, they never offered any defense of Fr. Gruner when he was publicly persecuted in his work to make the message of Fatima known.

I had a similar experience with the TFP when discussing the social kingship of Christ the King.  Sitting at a table with at least a dozen members of TFP, we were in complete agreement and I could not criticize anything that was said except this: not one of them ever heard of Fr. Denis Fahey or Cardinal Louis-Édouard-François-Desiré Pie. They attributed the entire Catholic theological teaching on the social kingship of Christ to Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira.  

ANF is used primarily to generate income for the TFP.  They had a real crisis when Rome claimed to have revealed the entirety of the third secret. They did not believe that the entire secret had been revealed but since they will not publicly contradict any Roman policy, they did not know what to do. They then sent a questionnaire and canvassed their supporters to get a feel if Fatima was worth continuing since it was now a historical interest only.  The reason Atila Guimaraes of Tradition In Action left the TFP is because they were opposed to the publication of "ELI, ELI, LAMA SABACTHANI."  Although TIA has a lot of good and useful information, Atila still promotes the geopolitical view of the TFP.  He may end up being the last guy in the world to admit the that 9-11 was an inside job.  He still to this day defends the conquest of Iraq including the bombing of inner city civilian population in Bagdad.

If you want evidence that the TFP is a cult try to get one of their directors to say the name of "Atila Guimaraes" in front of witnesses.  Just ask them how it should be properly pronounced. The TFP makes a solemn oath to God never to repeat the name of anyone expelled from the organization.  

Drew

 
I looked these people up in the past, too. They are indeed a cult, though there are plenty of well meaning people in their group. If you look up the name of their leadrer/founder, Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira, it's all as plain as day.
I may post the article if I find it this evening or later in the week.

Re: America Needs Fatima, Who?
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2018, 10:28:02 PM »
I looked these people up in the past, too. They are indeed a cult, though there are plenty of well meaning people in their group. If you look up the name of their leadrer/founder, Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira, it's all as plain as day.
I may post the article if I find it this evening or later in the week.


I learned to pray the Rosary from these people, I also learned the 4 last things from them, etc.
If not for them, I won't be a practising Catholic today. They've helped many lost Catholics go back to the Church. 

So the devil definitely wants people to avoid the TFP like a plague. Thus so many calumnies.