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Author Topic: wife rejects natural family planning  (Read 29432 times)

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Offline Telesphorus

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wife rejects natural family planning
« Reply #60 on: August 02, 2013, 07:31:52 AM »
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  • The problem here is straight-up feminism, "my body, my choice" and notice that the man is being assigned blame by the feminist enabler here.  This is what happens when relations and other people make excuses for feminine immorality.  

    Look at FE.

    Really it's the same attitude at its core:

    "You are so judgmental and rigid, why don't you look at your own faults and then realize you can manipulate your erring spouse by grovelling and showing tolerance and realizing everyone is human and makes mistakes"

    Or Pope Francis "who am I to judge X, Y, and Z"

    A woman not wanting to have a baby isn't about you not liking trousers or buying organic food or forgoing vaccines.  

    A baby is a great deal more significant than those things.  If she didn't want those things then she simply wouldn't have gone along with them.

    She is drawing the line here because of a moral failing (lack of courage) and probably because of encouragement from the sort of people who are telling her you're "controlling" and probably "abusive" "neglectful" "fanatical" "rigorist"

    Offline Tiffany

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    « Reply #61 on: August 02, 2013, 07:36:03 AM »
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  • Quote from: ggreg
    So what's your marital situation Tiffany?

    Didn't you get divorced or live with someone or marry a foreigner and it didn't work out or something like that?


    Nice comment in there  questioning my virtue.


    Offline Tiffany

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    « Reply #62 on: August 02, 2013, 07:40:18 AM »
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  • Quote from: ggreg
    Quote from: Tiffany
    Quote from: ggreg
    He can rectify them.

    He can apologize for being controlling on unnecessary things and win back her trust and confidence for the necessary things he WILL continue to insist on.

    Give and take.  It is a difficult concept for you, I know, but work with me on this.

    Give and take.  Say it three times.


    Ggreg we aren't playing cards trading to win go fish. This is a marriage, contraception, and  potential murder we are talking here.


    Which is why, if you bother to read my post, I have not suggest he lets the Ace of Contraception slip from his hand but rather offers up his 4, 7 and Jack to the middle of the table for a reshuffle.

    How much you TRULY care about Gooch's situation is demonstrated by the fact that rather than offer alternative constructive advice to him, you attempt to deconstruct the advice of other posters.  Why not simply post yourself and let Gooch decide?

    Like most prigs you don't really care about the children of an anonymous stranger on the internet, though you will scream blue murder that you do, as long as your weird little rules are followed.


    Ggreg when gooch FIRST posted, shared some of my own experience, and have prayed for his family since then. It is a very difficult place for a believer to be in. I also remember his wife has made some agreements too, like I believe she attends a TLM with him. Don't doubt the influence of others here leading her the wrong way with a legal system that supports them.  

    Offline ggreg

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    « Reply #63 on: August 02, 2013, 07:41:23 AM »
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  • Quote from: Tiffany
    Quote from: ggreg
    So what's your marital situation Tiffany?

    Didn't you get divorced or live with someone or marry a foreigner and it didn't work out or something like that?


    Nice comment in there  questioning my virtue.


    Why not answer the question.  I thought I read you married a foreigner and got divorced, but I might be confusing you with someone else.

    Are you long term happily married to a Catholic yourself and on your first marriage.  Since you picked apart my advice we might as well put all of our cards on the table.  Then Gooch can consider our credibility in light of this.

    Offline ggreg

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    « Reply #64 on: August 02, 2013, 07:44:54 AM »
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  • Anyway Gooch I will bow out, because this thread will otherwise degenerate into a sh!tfest but please come back in a year or two and resurrect the thread and give us and future readers the benefit of hindsight.  If you save your marriage how did you do it and  if you didn't, what you could have done better if you had a second chance.


    Offline ggreg

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    « Reply #65 on: August 02, 2013, 08:08:42 AM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    The problem here is straight-up feminism, "my body, my choice" and notice that the man is being assigned blame by the feminist enabler here.  This is what happens when relations and other people make excuses for feminine immorality.  


    Well, assuming there is only one person to blame, there is a good chance he is the one to blame, since there are only two people involved.

    If the blame is shared, then I am blaming him because he is the one posting and asking for advice.  Blaming his wife is not constructive.  Obviously she is at fault for getting an IUD, but she's not asking for advice.

    Let's assume that you, Tele, are completely correct in your views of how to deal with women and Gooch brings home a stick as thin as his finger and gives her a damn good spanking, or stands there and uses phrases, like exceedingly evil, interloper, ungodly and vicious attack.

    How is Mrs Gooch going to react.  Here is a women who after the last baby had a coil fitted.   She's hardly likely to agree with her husband and run off to fetch his pipe and slippers.  Softly, softly catch a monkey.

    There is a reason you have never had a girlfriend or a wife Tele and it is because you lack empathy.  You lack an understanding that to get from A to B is sometimes a journey.  People don't just beam there like Captain Kirk.  You probably scare the living crap out of women for this reason.

    I've made millions of dollars in business by changing people's minds and making them think about things from a different perspective.  I know a thing or two about practical human psychology and insisting on a person eating and entire moral menu all at once is a good way to guarantee they will vomit it up.

    Here lies the body of William Day.
    Who died maintaining his right of way.
    He was right, dead right as he sped along,
    But he is just as dead, as if he were wrong.

    Offline Tiffany

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    « Reply #66 on: August 02, 2013, 08:09:31 AM »
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  • Quote from: ggreg
    Quote from: Tiffany
    Quote from: ggreg
    So what's your marital situation Tiffany?

    Didn't you get divorced or live with someone or marry a foreigner and it didn't work out or something like that?


    Nice comment in there  questioning my virtue.


    Why not answer the question.  I thought I read you married a foreigner and got divorced, but I might be confusing you with someone else.

    Are you long term happily married to a Catholic yourself and on your first marriage.  Since you picked apart my advice we might as well put all of our cards on the table.  Then Gooch can consider our credibility in light of this.
    Ggreg you goal was just to demean me, otherwise you would not have suggested that I whore around.

     I replied to him months ago and was not picking apart anything. http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/contraception-2

    Offline ggreg

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    « Reply #67 on: August 02, 2013, 08:11:38 AM »
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  • Quote from: Tiffany
    Quote from: ggreg
    Quote from: Tiffany
    Quote from: ggreg
    So what's your marital situation Tiffany?

    Didn't you get divorced or live with someone or marry a foreigner and it didn't work out or something like that?


    Nice comment in there  questioning my virtue.


    Why not answer the question.  I thought I read you married a foreigner and got divorced, but I might be confusing you with someone else.

    Are you long term happily married to a Catholic yourself and on your first marriage.  Since you picked apart my advice we might as well put all of our cards on the table.  Then Gooch can consider our credibility in light of this.
    Ggreg you goal was just to demean me, otherwise you would not have suggested that I whore around.

     I replied to him months ago and was not picking apart anything. http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/contraception-2


    So basically you got divorced.

    So whatever you tried, it didn't work.  Fair?


    Offline Tiffany

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    « Reply #68 on: August 02, 2013, 08:14:38 AM »
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  • Quote from: ggreg
    Quote from: Telesphorus
    The problem here is straight-up feminism, "my body, my choice" and notice that the man is being assigned blame by the feminist enabler here.  This is what happens when relations and other people make excuses for feminine immorality.  


    Well, assuming there is only one person to blame, there is a good chance he is the one to blame, since there are only two people involved.

    If the blame is shared, then I am blaming him because he is the one posting and asking for advice.  Blaming his wife is not constructive.  Obviously she is at fault for getting an IUD, but she's not asking for advice.

    Let's assume that you, Tele, are completely correct in your views of how to deal with women and Gooch brings home a stick as thin as his finger and gives her a damn good spanking, or stands there and uses phrases, like exceedingly evil, interloper, ungodly and vicious attack.

    How is Mrs Gooch going to react.  Here is a women who after the last baby had a coil fitted.   She's hardly likely to agree with her husband and run off to fetch his pipe and slippers.  Softly, softly catch a monkey.

    There is a reason you have never had a girlfriend or a wife Tele and it is because you lack empathy.  You lack an understanding that to get from A to B is sometimes a journey.  People don't just beam there like Captain Kirk.  You probably scare the living crap out of women for this reason.

    I've made millions of dollars in business by changing people's minds and making them think about things from a different perspective.  I know a thing or two about practical human psychology and insisting on a person eating and entire moral menu all at once is a good way to guarantee they will vomit it up.

    Here lies the body of William Day.
    Who died maintaining his right of way.
    He was right, dead right as he sped along,
    But he is just as dead, as if he were wrong.


    Same old argument, men with honest values lack empathy are cruel, and it's such a bunch of hogwash, just the opposite is true, they are the most empathetic and caring.

    Offline ggreg

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    « Reply #69 on: August 02, 2013, 08:19:15 AM »
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  • Gooch, according to the other thread you converted around two years ago or less.

    So it's not like your wife married you with a full and frank understanding of what she was letting himself in for.  You weren't from a family of 9 kids with all of your brothers and sisters having 6 or more.

    From her perspective you have moved the goalposts on her.  She was at least a decade into a marriage where she thought she could use contraception and all of a suddenly she is not only dealing with a convert's zeal (famous for causing these and other problems) but a bunch of other stuff like trousers, broccoli and inoculations.

    Blimey man, can't you see what has happened here?

    Turn the dial back a little.  Turn the volume down.  Let her slowly absorb the new you.

    With that I wish you luck and I have deals to do.

    Offline ggreg

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    « Reply #70 on: August 02, 2013, 08:21:20 AM »
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  • Quote from: Tiffany

    Same old argument, men with honest values lack empathy are cruel, and it's such a bunch of hogwash, just the opposite is true, they are the most empathetic and caring.


    With my hogwash I am happily married.

    With your honest values, you are divorced.

    Proof of the pudding my dear is in the eating.


    Offline Tiffany

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    « Reply #71 on: August 02, 2013, 08:23:29 AM »
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  • Absolutely not Ggreg, I remember when I told him I was with child the last time, being nervous embarrassed to talk to him about something like that I was looking down but when I looked up he had a big smile.
    Our bed was kept holy, that isn't a failure.

    Offline ggreg

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    « Reply #72 on: August 02, 2013, 08:48:02 AM »
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  • If Gooch ends up divorced because he stands on some bizarre anti-feminist principal.

    He is going to be sexless until the end of his life (unless he gets an annulment with three kids from his first marriage).

    His ex-wife is still going to use contraception and will probably find a new man

    His three children will probably lose any faith as a result.  After all the cause of their parents divorce appears to be his conversion to Catholicism (which says divorce is wrong.  The kids are going to find that a paradox.

    (zero upside)



    If Gooch remains married by apologising for moving too fast on her, (which is what I suggested he did).

    He has a chance to convert his wife and children.

    His children will probably have the faith as adults.


    Conclusion - You can do far more good as a "weak" husband than a "manly" ex-husband.

    Offline Tiffany

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    « Reply #73 on: August 02, 2013, 08:51:21 AM »
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  • Quote from: ggreg
    Quote from: Tiffany

    Same old argument, men with honest values lack empathy are cruel, and it's such a bunch of hogwash, just the opposite is true, they are the most empathetic and caring.


    With my hogwash I am happily married.

    With your honest values, you are divorced.

    Proof of the pudding my dear is in the eating.
     The hogwash is that men with traditional values who reject feminism lack empathy and are uncaring.

    Offline ggreg

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    « Reply #74 on: August 02, 2013, 08:57:35 AM »
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  • Quote from: Tiffany
    Quote from: ggreg
    Quote from: Tiffany

    Same old argument, men with honest values lack empathy are cruel, and it's such a bunch of hogwash, just the opposite is true, they are the most empathetic and caring.


    With my hogwash I am happily married.

    With your honest values, you are divorced.

    Proof of the pudding my dear is in the eating.
     The hogwash is that men with traditional values who reject feminism lack empathy and are uncaring.


    OK, so the day that a poster comes here and says his skirt wearing Traditionalist wife is divorcing him because he did too many chores for her and she lost all respect for him and ran off to marry a pipe-smoking, Tolkein reading, Stormfront supporting rad-Trad, let's review.

    So far however my way is working.  And Gooch's way is not.  And you are divorced.

    Whereas I am married, very happily and my 39 year old wife is popping out sprogs every 2 years like a Russian cuckoo-clock.

    SO I MUST BE DOING SOMETHING RIGHT !!!!