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Author Topic: Avoid All Fantasy Novels  (Read 10389 times)

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Offline Gray2023

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Re: Avoid All Fantasy Novels
« Reply #30 on: August 27, 2024, 05:30:41 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on August 27, 2024, 03:56:36 PM
    No, I really don't know what you're talking about.
    Creating/spreading the word on bad books does not open you up to the occult.  It's the duty of being a catholic to warn people.

    I think you are confusing the idea of being 'attacked by evil' (which God can allow as a means of perfection), and 'opening yourself up the occult'.  These are two VERY different things.  The former is a temptation and spiritual assault for doing good (i.e. what the Cure of Ars went through).  The latter is a punishment from God, who allows those who dabble in the occult to face the consequences of their sins.
    Laity didn't create indexes.  Bishops did.  The reason why laity shouldn't delve into this is because they do not have all the correct teaching on the matter.

    The story is about an accidental obsession.  It could have been the book that caused it.  It could have been another child in the family that caused it.

    The answer is to remove all that type of book.  Fine.  Problem solved?  Don't know.  Is everything fine for that family now?  We don't know.  My point is that by using the Sacraments we fortify ourselves against evil.  We need valid Sacraments to do this.  If the Novus Ordo, has valid Sacraments, then we are all in Schism.

    Do we have any writings for our current times that help us understand good angels and bad angels?  If we believe Pope Leo XIII, then over these last 60+ years demons have had the most power in the history of the world, and the Church has had the least power it has ever had.  Laity need to be ready to not fall for angels of darkness.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Avoid All Fantasy Novels
    « Reply #31 on: August 27, 2024, 09:27:03 PM »
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    • Quote
    Laity didn't create indexes.  Bishops did.  The reason why laity shouldn't delve into this is because they do not have all the correct teaching on the matter.
    :facepalm:  It's called Catholic Common Sense.  Everyone who has researched the Harry Potter books, just a little bit, knows they are occult.


    Besides, parents have a DUTY to protect their families and a DUTY to help other families with needed info.  Someone called it an "index" for lack of a better word.  Because it gets the point across.  It wouldn't be a real index and you know it.  I'm flabbergasted that you'd be fighting this idea.  But then, a few posts from now, you'll say that you didn't mean it and walk back your above comment.

    Quote
    The story is about an accidental obsession.  It could have been the book that caused it.  It could have been another child in the family that caused it.
    :facepalm:  They got rid of the book and the strange events stopped.  Don't overthink it, nor explain away the true cause.  Why are you defending this type of book?

    Quote
    The answer is to remove all that type of book.  Fine.  Problem solved?  Don't know.  
    Yes, for them, the problem was solved.

    Quote
    Is everything fine for that family now?  We don't know. 
    Irrelevant to the topic at hand.



    Quote
    My point is that by using the Sacraments we fortify ourselves against evil.  We need valid Sacraments to do this.
    Obviously. 

    Quote
    If the Novus Ordo, has valid Sacraments, then we are all in Schism.
    Over-generalization and not true.

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    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: Avoid All Fantasy Novels
    « Reply #32 on: August 27, 2024, 10:25:54 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on August 27, 2024, 09:27:03 PM
    :facepalm:  It's called Catholic Common Sense.  Everyone who has researched the Harry Potter books, just a little bit, knows they are occult.


    Besides, parents have a DUTY to protect their families and a DUTY to help other families with needed info.  Someone called it an "index" for lack of a better word.  Because it gets the point across.  It wouldn't be a real index and you know it.  I'm flabbergasted that you'd be fighting this idea.  But then, a few posts from now, you'll say that you didn't mean it and walk back your above comment.
    :facepalm:  They got rid of the book and the strange events stopped.  Don't overthink it, nor explain away the true cause.  Why are you defending this type of book?
    Yes, for them, the problem was solved.
    Irrelevant to the topic at hand.


    Obviously. 
    Over-generalization and not true.
    I am not fighting it.

    There is more at stake and over simplifying things is going to cause more problems in the future.

    I just thought the story was too simple.  

    Just ban all fantasy books and you won't have to worry about demonic obsessions.

    Maybe go back and read my posts to understand what I am truly trying to say, instead of always just reading my posts with your own preconceived notions.

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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Avoid All Fantasy Novels
    « Reply #33 on: August 27, 2024, 11:57:18 PM »
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    • Quote from: Hercule on August 27, 2024, 01:13:57 PM
    Please do pardon my ignorance, confreres, but what qualities distinguish a novel as being "Fantasy"?

    That's my question as well. Before I can form an opinion, think about the subject, etc. I must first DEFINE MY TERMS.

    So, is a "Fantasy novel" IN THIS CONTEXT (what this priest is warning about) basically Harry Potter or a clone of such, containing spells, curses, and what not?

    Because there are a lot of "fantasy" books and movies, well before Harry Potter, that merely had fantastic settings in "another world". Even Star Wars is more fantasy than sci-fi. Anime has a whole genre called "isekai" basically meaning "another world". Stuff like the main character gets sucked into a book and finds herself in China in the Middle Ages or something. Nothing inherently dangerous about that...
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    Offline Mr G

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    Re: Avoid All Fantasy Novels
    « Reply #34 on: August 28, 2024, 07:13:11 AM »
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    • Quote from: Matthew on August 27, 2024, 11:57:18 PM


    So, is a "Fantasy novel" IN THIS CONTEXT (what this priest is warning about) basically Harry Potter or a clone of such, containing spells, curses, and what not?

    Yes, here is what he said:

    God may care about our intentions in imputing good or evil to our moral acts, but demons do not.  If fantasy novels carry curses, those curses spoken out loud will carry objective effects, even if the subjective state of the reader is quite innocent.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Avoid All Fantasy Novels
    « Reply #35 on: August 28, 2024, 08:02:48 AM »
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    • Quote
    I just thought the story was too simple. 

    Just ban all fantasy books and you won't have to worry about demonic obsessions.
    Except nobody said this.  Nobody said that fantasy novels were the ONLY thing to worry about.

    You expanded the topic beyond books (and you didn't really make that clear) and are criticizing the advice, based on your personal expansion of the topic.  Everyone else is simply talking about books.


    Quote
    Maybe go back and read my posts to understand what I am truly trying to say
    How about you stick to the topic so people don't get confused?
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    Offline B from A

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    Re: Avoid All Fantasy Novels
    « Reply #36 on: August 28, 2024, 09:55:03 AM »
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    • Quote from: Hercule on August 27, 2024, 01:13:57 PM
    Please do pardon my ignorance, confreres, but what qualities distinguish a novel as being "Fantasy"?

    Quote from: Matthew on August 27, 2024, 11:57:18 PM

    That's my question as well. Before I can form an opinion, think about the subject, etc. I must first DEFINE MY TERMS.
    I agree, as Mr G said in this post: 
    Quote from: Mr G on October 22, 2020, 02:09:48 PM

    Before starting any debate, please make sure you define your terms so that each side has the same understanding of the same term.





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    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: Avoid All Fantasy Novels
    « Reply #37 on: August 28, 2024, 11:34:58 AM »
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    • Quote from: Mr G on August 28, 2024, 07:13:11 AM
    Yes, here is what he said:

    God may care about our intentions in imputing good or evil to our moral acts, but demons do not.  If fantasy novels carry curses, those curses spoken out loud will carry objective effects, even if the subjective state of the reader is quite innocent.
    Doesn't intent matter.  What are other examples of accidental obsessions? 
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Avoid All Fantasy Novels
    « Reply #38 on: August 28, 2024, 12:49:32 PM »
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    • The 4 levels, per Fr Amorth
    1.  Infestation (i.e. haunted house, room, object, or even animal etc)
    2.  Oppression (i.e. this starts directly affecting people - sleep disturbances, depression, physical attacks, etc)
    3.  Obsession (i.e. the person is obsessed with the demonic and almost cannot function.  Sleep is nearly impossible)
    4.  Possession

    https://www.newportri.com/story/entertainment/2016/10/25/4-degrees-demonic-possession/985256007/

    This family seems to have had the lowest level, an infestation.  There are countless stories where people were bothered by infestations, and they all trace it back to accidental/curiosity use of the occult, tarot cards, etc.

    My opinion is, in these lower level cases, a "curiosity" is enough of an opening for the devil to manifest.  In a sense, "curiosity" does have an "intent" to explore.  This intent is sinful.  There are many sins one can commit through curiosity.
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    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Avoid All Fantasy Novels
    « Reply #39 on: August 28, 2024, 01:14:14 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mr G on August 27, 2024, 11:16:08 AM
    Avoid All Fantasy Novels – Padre Peregrino
    .

    Better idea is to avoid the author of this article, whatever his name is. He is just a conservative Novus Ordo "priest".
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Avoid All Fantasy Novels
    « Reply #40 on: August 28, 2024, 01:16:33 PM »
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    • Quote from: Yeti on August 28, 2024, 01:14:14 PM
    .

    Better idea is to avoid the author of this article, whatever his name is. He is just a conservative Novus Ordo "priest".
    Yep, I said something similar above.  I think we're missing the forest for the trees.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Avoid All Fantasy Novels
    « Reply #41 on: August 28, 2024, 01:27:52 PM »
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    • Who wants to follow a blind guide anyhow? This priest says the Novus Ordo Mass 100% of the time. He doesn't even know there's a Crisis in the Church! Not exactly a paragon of wisdom and knowledge to follow. A 10 year old Trad is wiser than him.

    Education, age, and wisdom are NOT the same thing. You can have a PhD, be the CEO of a company, know several languages, etc. and still be a fool.

    If you think it's no big deal that the Conciliar Church "just happened" to perfectly reflect Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ after 1970, or be completely ignorant of the JQ -- sorry, but you completely lack wisdom.

    Or if you believe in "abiogenesis" (life arising spontaneously from non-life) -- despite this having never been observed ONCE in human history -- or any evidence in the past. Sorry, that's not scientific, OR wise. You're just a fool. Despite having a PhD.

    12-year-old homeschoolers learn about the experiments of Louis Pasteur that DISPROVED abiogenesis. Remember his famous experiment with cheesecloth over rotting meat? Flies were prevented from landing on (and laying eggs on) the meat, and surprise, surprise -- no maggots were "produced from" the rotting meat. He proved it wasn't the meat itself that was generating the maggots.

    https://bio.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Microbiology/Microbiology_(Boundless)/01%3A_Introduction_to_Microbiology/1.01%3A_Introduction_to_Microbiology/1.1C%3A_Pasteur_and_Spontaneous_Generation

    Sorry to be harsh, but SOME errors really disqualify a person as a thinking man, or a wise man. Like believing abortion (murder) can be good in some cases. Stuff like that. Certain errors show that you either never think, can't think, or have compromised yourself in some way to be allergic to such an obvious truth.

    IMAGINE being OK with the Conciliar Church in current year. After all the evidence of 55 years of destruction, Pope Francis, etc.! Imagine not looking into the Traditional Movement (or even rejecting it!) despite the preponderance of evidence. Imagine being such a sheep, such a follower, even though you are supposed to be a leader (priest).
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    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: Avoid All Fantasy Novels
    « Reply #42 on: August 28, 2024, 01:43:22 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on August 28, 2024, 12:49:32 PM
    The 4 levels, per Fr Amorth
    1.  Infestation (i.e. haunted house, room, object, or even animal etc)
    2.  Oppression (i.e. this starts directly affecting people - sleep disturbances, depression, physical attacks, etc)
    3.  Obsession (i.e. the person is obsessed with the demonic and almost cannot function.  Sleep is nearly impossible)
    4.  Possession

    https://www.newportri.com/story/entertainment/2016/10/25/4-degrees-demonic-possession/985256007/

    This family seems to have had the lowest level, an infestation.  There are countless stories where people were bothered by infestations, and they all trace it back to accidental/curiosity use of the occult, tarot cards, etc.

    My opinion is, in these lower level cases, a "curiosity" is enough of an opening for the devil to manifest.  In a sense, "curiosity" does have an "intent" to explore.  This intent is sinful.  There are many sins one can commit through curiosity.
    Yes and I am concerned that people who open these doors don't realize that they can close them with prayer and sacrifice and the Sacraments.

    People need to know that their will to do right by God is stronger than any demon.

    Blaming it on an accidenttal curse from a book doesn't deal with the true situation.   That this girl is susceptible to demonic attacks and that she needs to learn how to fortify herself.
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    Offline Mr G

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    Re: Avoid All Fantasy Novels
    « Reply #43 on: August 28, 2024, 02:05:38 PM »
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    • Quote from: Matthew on August 28, 2024, 01:27:52 PM
    Who wants to follow a blind guide anyhow? This priest says the Novus Ordo Mass 100% of the time. He doesn't even know there's a Crisis in the Church! Not exactly a paragon of wisdom and knowledge to follow. A 10 year old Trad is wiser than him.


    To confirm, are you saying that Fr. Nix says the New Mass 100% of the time?

    Going from the ’55 Missal to the ’45 Missal – Padre Peregrino
    As you know, for the first seven years of my priesthood, I offered the new sacraments.  The last seven years I have offered exclusively the old sacraments.  But now I’m switching from a 1962 TLM Missal to a 1939 TLM Missal.  This has little to do with the papacy or obedience or rebellion or political statements or trying “to be more trad than the next priest.”

    Why I Offer the Old Sacraments Exclusively – Padre Peregrino
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Avoid All Fantasy Novels
    « Reply #44 on: August 28, 2024, 02:31:07 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mr G on August 28, 2024, 02:05:38 PM
    Why I Offer the Old Sacraments Exclusively – Padre Peregrino
    Interesting.  So, he prefers the "old sacraments" and acknowledges that the rite of consecration was "changed much", but he remains ordained in the New Rite, by a New Rite bishop?
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