Do a risk-benefit analysis on if I’m wrong, versus if I’m right.Very good advice. Satanism is everywhere nowadays. It just ain't worth it.
It's throwing the baby out with the bathwater to condem Tolkein and C. S. Lewis and others due to one genre of fantasy books." Up to this point, the entire family had avoided fantasy novels, except Lord of the Rings." so Tolkein was not the problem, the problem started with the "Wings of Fire"
If the particular books have occultic spells, or incantations, then it is occult. If it does not, then it is not occult.
The devils are smarter than us. They know how to scare us, it has nothing to do with the occult.
If the particular books have occultic spells, or incantations, then it is occult. If it does not, then it is not occult.But why was it only the girls room?
Your advice of telling the demons to go away is good, however, the problem is when the book has a line in which by reading it you call upon the demons.
If demons are manifesting their presence in a tangle way, you need to ask yourself if perhaps you or someone in your household is intentionally inviting them in.
They didn't need the blessing from the priestHorrible advice.
all they needed to do was to tell whatever was scary them to go back to hell where it came from.Horrible advice.
But the accidental affects like in this story I don't believe are as powerful as people make them out to be.Horrible advice.
I am just saying that demons aren't that courageous, so don't be easy targets.Horrible advice.
but this Padre Peregrino is just a lay man. At least by how most of us here on CathInfo think.Horrible advice and wrong facts. There are true priests in the new Church; it's just hard to know whom they are.
Horrible advice and wrong facts. There are true priests in the new Church; it's just hard to know whom they are.
Please do pardon my ignorance, confreres, but what qualities distinguish a novel as being "Fantasy"?
How can we know which ones are valid in your opinion?I have no idea and it's beside the point. The point being, if you're only option is to call a doubtful priest or nobody (for an exorcism or blessing), i'd call the doubtful priest. Handling demons on your own, is NOT the correct answer.
1.) But why was it only the girls room?1.) Based on my limited research on demonic possession, the demons usually attach themselves to a specific location that has significance to the person being harassed by the demon. So, it appears that only one daughter is being targeted and that is because she gave in to some suggestion of the demon. Pax's statement above is an excellent explanation.
2.) I am just saying that demons aren't that courageous, so don't be easy targets.
I have no idea and it's beside the point. The point being, if you're only option is to call a doubtful priest or nobody (for an exorcism or blessing), i'd call the doubtful priest. Handling demons on your own, is NOT the correct answer. The family was already praying the daily rosary, so obviously that didn't work. (And it probably didn't work because the girl in question was reading/re-reading these books on her own, which opened her up to demonic oppression). Hopefully she learned a lesson.
Sure.Correct, avoid all communications with demons. Pray that they leave but do not talk to them, do not react or show they are "getting to you", ignore their manifestations and be alert for any thoughts and images they will suggest to you, do not consent.
I also think that it's not a good advice to tell demons to go away. One should not address demons at all. The Hail Mary and the prayer to St. Michael are what I would recommend.
I would say that a fantasy book is a book with elements that don't occur in nature.Thank you, mon Ami, I think I now understand.
Agatha Christie does not qualify. :laugh1: We can still enjoy Poirot's stories.:cowboy:
" Up to this point, the entire family had avoided fantasy novels, except Lord of the Rings." so Tolkein was not the problem, the problem started with the "Wings of Fire"Agreed. Thank you for making this distinction.
I think this line is the key on deciding which book to read or not read "If fantasy novels carry curses, those curses spoken out loud will carry objective effects, even if the subjective state of the reader is quite innocent. " therefore, if the novel does NOT carry curses, then there should be no problem.
13 Now some also of the Jєωιѕн exorcists who went about, attempted to invoke over them that had evil spirits, the name of the Lord Jesus, saying: I conjure you by Jesus, whom Paul preacheth. 14 And there were certain men, seven sons of Sceva, a Jew, a chief priest, that did this. 15 But the wicked spirit, answering, said to them: Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you?The Acts of the Apostles, Chapter 19.
16 And the man in whom the wicked spirit was, leaping upon them, and mastering them both, prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.
The text seems to imply that it is not the story of the book itself that is bad, but the pronouncing of curses and demons' names out loud.Don't you see how that is a problem? You have to open yourself up to understanding occult actions so you can fight them. Just fight them by using prayer and a priest if need be, don't start creating indexes of evil because in the process you are opening yourself up to the evil. Being an adult doesn't give us anymore protection than a child or teen.
We all should of course research every book that children and teenagers will read. We need to have our own Index these days.
Horrible advice.You missed my point.
Horrible advice.
Horrible advice.
Horrible advice.
Horrible advice and wrong facts. There are true priests in the new Church; it's just hard to know whom they are.
Don't you see how that is a problem?No, I really don't know what you're talking about.
You have to open yourself up to understanding occult actions so you can fight them. Just fight them by using prayer and a priest if need be, don't start creating indexes of evil because in the process you are opening yourself up to the evil. Being an adult doesn't give us anymore protection than a child or teen.Creating/spreading the word on bad books does not open you up to the occult. It's the duty of being a catholic to warn people.
Does God allow for these things to happen?Sometimes God allows for spiritual combat due to the person being holy, as an act of merit (i.e. St Padre Pio or the Cure of Ars). But this is NOT occult possession or oppression, which God allows as a punishment for sins of dabbling in the occult.
If you are a person who this is happening to, then pray and get a priest to help if need be, but what if a priest won't come?Yes, this is the advice you should've given first. Not, "you don't need a priest" (which is what your original comments implied).
I don't understand your last statement "How can their be true priests in the new Church?"Doubtful ordination/episcopal rites do not mean 100% invalidity. It means we don't know (and many times, can't know) who is a priest and who isn't. So, yes, there can be legit priests in the V2 church. If that's your only option, then you use them.
Sure.Have you ever been harassed so much by a demon that it made you crazy? Asked for a priest to come, but they refused? Then had to go to Christ to be free from your demonic oppressor? I just want people to know that God allows the suffering and God will take it away, just don't succuмb to demons. Demons hate being laughed at. They hate being ignored. They hate you turning to our Lady every time they come. It is the same with temptations. We have the free will to ignore the evil and hang on to Our Lord and Lady.
I also think that it's not a good advice to tell demons to go away. One should not address demons at all. The Hail Mary and the prayer to St. Michael are what I would recommend.
There are historical threads related to the topic of "prayers of binding evil spirits" which are supported by Fr Ripperberger and others. The consensus is, that Fr Ripperberger is giving dangerous advice to people which is not historically catholic but protestant in understanding. Christ gave the Church/Apostles/Bishops/priests the power to bind demons, not the faithful. So any advice you get which tells you to "demand the devil to [fill in the blank]" is very dangerous and very foolhardy.I don't disagree with this. Again when I talk about something I use words poorly, I am sorry. I wasn't suggesting that you get involved with the demon. Since I am a timid sort, most of the time, when I was having issues just saying "In the name of Christ go back to hell" was helpful and gave some relief.
As others have said, the best advice is to ASK OUR LADY or THE SAINTS to intercede for you...in other words, pray for help. Laypersons are not priests, and definitely not exorcists (which are priests who have SPECIAL powers from the Bishop). So laypersons are, in the spirit of humility, to invoke help/protection. Any "demands" or "orders" to demons will cause ill effects and dangerous results (because such is an act of pride) because laypersons simply don't have power over them (and the devils know this).
Again when I talk about something I use words poorly, I am sorry.Yes, lots of times your posts can be contradictory. Most of the time, it's not a big deal, because it's a topic that is theoretical or mostly opinion-based. On a topic such as this, you should choose your words VERY wisely, and post less. If you know you don't explain things well, then you should NOT post on topics where you can cause confusion and where the topic is serious. Everyone has limits; know your limits.
No, I really don't know what you're talking about.Laity didn't create indexes. Bishops did. The reason why laity shouldn't delve into this is because they do not have all the correct teaching on the matter.
Creating/spreading the word on bad books does not open you up to the occult. It's the duty of being a catholic to warn people.
I think you are confusing the idea of being 'attacked by evil' (which God can allow as a means of perfection), and 'opening yourself up the occult'. These are two VERY different things. The former is a temptation and spiritual assault for doing good (i.e. what the Cure of Ars went through). The latter is a punishment from God, who allows those who dabble in the occult to face the consequences of their sins.
Laity didn't create indexes. Bishops did. The reason why laity shouldn't delve into this is because they do not have all the correct teaching on the matter.:facepalm: It's called Catholic Common Sense. Everyone who has researched the Harry Potter books, just a little bit, knows they are occult.
The story is about an accidental obsession. It could have been the book that caused it. It could have been another child in the family that caused it.:facepalm: They got rid of the book and the strange events stopped. Don't overthink it, nor explain away the true cause. Why are you defending this type of book?
The answer is to remove all that type of book. Fine. Problem solved? Don't know.Yes, for them, the problem was solved.
Is everything fine for that family now? We don't know.Irrelevant to the topic at hand.
My point is that by using the Sacraments we fortify ourselves against evil. We need valid Sacraments to do this.Obviously.
If the Novus Ordo, has valid Sacraments, then we are all in Schism.Over-generalization and not true.
:facepalm: It's called Catholic Common Sense. Everyone who has researched the Harry Potter books, just a little bit, knows they are occult.I am not fighting it.
Besides, parents have a DUTY to protect their families and a DUTY to help other families with needed info. Someone called it an "index" for lack of a better word. Because it gets the point across. It wouldn't be a real index and you know it. I'm flabbergasted that you'd be fighting this idea. But then, a few posts from now, you'll say that you didn't mean it and walk back your above comment.
:facepalm: They got rid of the book and the strange events stopped. Don't overthink it, nor explain away the true cause. Why are you defending this type of book?
Yes, for them, the problem was solved.
Irrelevant to the topic at hand.
Obviously.
Over-generalization and not true.
Please do pardon my ignorance, confreres, but what qualities distinguish a novel as being "Fantasy"?
Yes, here is what he said:
So, is a "Fantasy novel" IN THIS CONTEXT (what this priest is warning about) basically Harry Potter or a clone of such, containing spells, curses, and what not?
I just thought the story was too simple.Except nobody said this. Nobody said that fantasy novels were the ONLY thing to worry about.
Just ban all fantasy books and you won't have to worry about demonic obsessions.
Maybe go back and read my posts to understand what I am truly trying to sayHow about you stick to the topic so people don't get confused?
Please do pardon my ignorance, confreres, but what qualities distinguish a novel as being "Fantasy"?
I agree, as Mr G said in this post:
That's my question as well. Before I can form an opinion, think about the subject, etc. I must first DEFINE MY TERMS.
Before starting any debate, please make sure you define your terms so that each side has the same understanding of the same term.
Yes, here is what he said:Doesn't intent matter. What are other examples of accidental obsessions?
God may care about our intentions in imputing good or evil to our moral acts, but demons do not. If fantasy novels carry curses, those curses spoken out loud will carry objective effects, even if the subjective state of the reader is quite innocent.
Avoid All Fantasy Novels – Padre Peregrino (https://padreperegrino.org/2024/08/fantasy/).
.Yep, I said something similar above. I think we're missing the forest for the trees.
Better idea is to avoid the author of this article, whatever his name is. He is just a conservative Novus Ordo "priest".
The 4 levels, per Fr AmorthYes and I am concerned that people who open these doors don't realize that they can close them with prayer and sacrifice and the Sacraments.
1. Infestation (i.e. haunted house, room, object, or even animal etc)
2. Oppression (i.e. this starts directly affecting people - sleep disturbances, depression, physical attacks, etc)
3. Obsession (i.e. the person is obsessed with the demonic and almost cannot function. Sleep is nearly impossible)
4. Possession
https://www.newportri.com/story/entertainment/2016/10/25/4-degrees-demonic-possession/985256007/
This family seems to have had the lowest level, an infestation. There are countless stories where people were bothered by infestations, and they all trace it back to accidental/curiosity use of the occult, tarot cards, etc.
My opinion is, in these lower level cases, a "curiosity" is enough of an opening for the devil to manifest. In a sense, "curiosity" does have an "intent" to explore. This intent is sinful. There are many sins one can commit through curiosity.
Who wants to follow a blind guide anyhow? This priest says the Novus Ordo Mass 100% of the time. He doesn't even know there's a Crisis in the Church! Not exactly a paragon of wisdom and knowledge to follow. A 10 year old Trad is wiser than him.
Why I Offer the Old Sacraments Exclusively – Padre Peregrino (https://padreperegrino.org/2024/02/oldsacr/)Interesting. So, he prefers the "old sacraments" and acknowledges that the rite of consecration was "changed much", but he remains ordained in the New Rite, by a New Rite bishop?
Yes and I am concerned that people who open these doors don't realize that they can close them with prayer and sacrifice and the Sacraments.Yes, but how do these doors get open? They don't just open on their own.
Blaming it on an accidental curse from a book doesn't deal with the true situation.:facepalm: The book was the cause of the curse. The book opened the door. Accidentally used by the person, the book is the cause.
That this girl is susceptible to demonic attacks and that she needs to learn how to fortify herself.And she BECAME susceptible due to this book. She was not susceptible "just because". That's not how it works.
Who wants to follow a blind guide anyhow? This priest says the Novus Ordo Mass 100% of the time. He doesn't even know there's a Crisis in the Church! Not exactly a paragon of wisdom and knowledge to follow. A 10 year old Trad is wiser than him.It doesn't take a priest to know that fooling around with magic, the occult and curses, etc can lead to demonic activity. Even protestants know this. There's plenty of stories of unbaptized atheists who converted to the Faith, because they realized that the occult/devil was real. True priest or not, his advice is solid and stands above the question of V2.
To confirm, are you saying that Fr. Nix says the New Mass 100% of the time?
Going from the ’55 Missal to the ’45 Missal – Padre Peregrino (https://padreperegrino.org/2024/06/restorethe54/)
As you know, for the first seven years of my priesthood, I offered the new sacraments. The last seven years I have offered exclusively the old sacraments. But now I’m switching from a 1962 TLM Missal to a 1939 TLM Missal. This has little to do with the papacy or obedience or rebellion or political statements or trying “to be more trad than the next priest.”
Why I Offer the Old Sacraments Exclusively – Padre Peregrino (https://padreperegrino.org/2024/02/oldsacr/)
Either Trad or get off the pot.:laugh1:
Well that's a good first step for a Novus Ordo priest -- but he needs to get off the fence. He's doing the classic "I'm trad but don't call me Trad" thing, as if he's accidentally discovering everything for the first time, like a pioneer, and if there are whole groups ALREADY DOING exactly what he's doing, he still wants nothing to do with those groups...Check out his recent X post: :facepalm:
He'd rather pretend he's "special".
That's annoying to say the least. That's almost worse than being a standard Novus Ordo priest. At least they are ignorant. This priest is trying to be "special".
I can't stand when priests try to be "above it all". He's NOT "above it all" although he likes to pretend he is.
Either Trad or get off the pot.
Check out his recent X post: :facepalm:Sorry for that terrible copy and paste on my phone.
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Fr. Dave Nix
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Ironically, I have to put away my '39 Missal today and take out my '62 Missal for Holy Mass in honor of Pope St. Pius X. Why? Because he wasn't canonized yet in 1939!
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Ironically, I have to put away my '39 Missal today and take out my '62 Missal for Holy Mass in honor of Pope St. Pius X. Why? Because he wasn't canonized yet in 1939!
9:14 AM · Sep 3, 2024 (https://x.com/FrDaveNix/status/1830957657664168006)
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Sorry for that terrible copy and paste on my phone.
Do you like a saint that is not included in the 39? No problem, just pick the 62. :laugh1:
Yes, but how do these doors get open? They don't just open on their own.You probably didn't need a reply, I just felt like responding.
A weak willed person just by a whispering in the imagination can open doors, because the demons know exactly who we are. I do not think that inanimate objects, like words on a page, can open doors.
:facepalm: The book was the cause of the curse. The book opened the door. Accidentally used by the person, the book is the cause.
I think that this is what the demons want us to believe. They want us to believe that you can accidentally give them access, because once you are afraid the demons have more power.
God does NOT allow (except in rare circuмstances) people to be attacked by demons, who stay away from these doors.
But don't we all open up doors every time we sin and give offense to God. You could remove all books, all music, all videos and still have issues with demons, because our sin opens us up to demonic attacks.
And she BECAME susceptible due to this book. She was not susceptible "just because". That's not how it works.
My guess is either she had certain sins in the household that were not being addressed or someone else had a sin that was not being addressed and she was the easiest one for the demon to get to.
There are specific things which open up oneself up to demonic activity. All exorcists agree on this.Who puts the temptation there? Temptations are the start of opening bigger doors. They are not mutually exclusive. I think it is not smart to separate temptations from demonic activity.
You, on the other hand, are referring to sins, which open up a person to increased temptations.
Demonic activity is not the same thing as temptations. You are minimizing the power of curses and the occult. Not smart.
Who puts the temptation there? Temptations are the start of opening bigger doors.No. The idea of 'opening doors' and 'opening spiritual portals' is specific to the occult/demonic. All exorcists say this.
They are not mutually exclusive. I think it is not smart to separate temptations from demonic activity.You're woefully uneducated on the topic. Just stop. It's embarrassing. And you're giving bad advice.
And as for curses. I think those are just a psyops.You're an idiot. Just stop. You have anti-catholic thinking.
No. The idea of 'opening doors' and 'opening spiritual portals' is specific to the occult/demonic. All exorcists say this.Some questions for you:
Purposely opening doors because you are a witch, or a satanist, or you have a curiosity towards the subject is a different category all together and not what we were discussing in this post.
The girl accidentally found herself in an oppression situation. The priest, who is not an exorcist, thinks it is the book.
I tried to find information on this book and all people said about it was that it was very violent. I have not read the book myself, but nobody said anything about the magic or curses that were in the book, so I don't even know if there were any.
You're woefully uneducated on the topic. Just stop. It's embarrassing. And you're giving bad advice.
Please point to the bad advice.
You're an idiot. Just stop. You have anti-catholic thinking.
Please point to where I am anti-Catholic.
Purposely opening doors because you are a witch, or a satanist, or you have a curiosity towards the subject is a different category all together and not what we were discussing in this post.The occult and curses and other things related to such, can open one to demonic activity, even if one does such in fun or accidentally (i.e. Ouija Board or Tarot cards). "Opening Doors" refers to demonic activity. Only certain sins open up a person to such.
The girl accidentally found herself in an oppression situationOne can only find oneself in such a situation by dealing with the occult. You cannot be "oppressed" through all sins. Only certain ones.
I think it is not smart to separate temptations from demonic activity.Demonic "oppression" (which is what this ENTIRE THREAD is talking about) is different from temptations. You are making the 2 categories to be equal. You are 1,000% wrong.
The occult and curses and other things related to such, can open one to demonic activity, even if one does such in fun or accidentally (i.e. Ouija Board or Tarot cards). "Opening Doors" refers to demonic activity. Only certain sins open up a person to such.I never said that temptation and oppression were equal. I said that temptations, if not conquered, could lead to oppressions. Where did you get the idea that oppressions only happen if you open a door?
Why doesn't this open doors for everyone who does it? Why is it selective? Why was the 16 year old girl, the only one affected in the family?
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouija)
One can only find oneself in such a situation by dealing with the occult. You cannot be "oppressed" through all sins. Only certain ones.
Demonic "oppression" (which is what this ENTIRE THREAD is talking about) is different from temptations. You are making the 2 categories to be equal. You are 1,000% wrong.
I said that temptations, if not conquered, could lead to oppressions.Only certain types of temptations. Not all. You continue to make false generalizations on this subject.
Only certain types of temptations. Not all. You continue to make false generalizations on this subject.I don't see how what I said varies much from the below synopsis (maybe they paraphrased wrong). I especially like the part that I changed to purple text.
I said "that temptations, if not conquered, could lead to oppressions." It is the same has what you said just worded differently.
"Oppression" is a very specific term used by Exorcists. You are falsely expanding this term, which is wrong. Go read a book by Fr Amorth.
Your continued minimizing of dabbling in the occult is horribly misguided.
The OP story was not about dabbling in the occult. It was about reading a book (which most reviews says is very violent, nothing about spells and occult activity) that caused oppression like occurrences for one 16 year old girl in that family. A family who prayed the daily rosary and went to a Novus Ordo Mass. A priest, not an exorcist, prayed with the family, and all was well afterward.