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Offline poche

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Re: A Second Look
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2019, 11:07:18 PM »
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  • Even without details, one can imagine this woman’s recurring pain; one can speculate that she was not the only victim; one can wonder what else was locked into secrecy or denial in a very different era. But all these unknowns from the first half of the twentieth century seem well beyond the bounds of what presents itself as a rigorous legal investigation.      
    Is this example exceptional? Yes, but not unique. One can say the same of some examples the report spotlights.
    In fact, one could find similar examples where the investigation’s span of more than seven decades—and gaps of half a century between likely abuse and the first word of it to reach church officials—raise questions about the report’s concept of accountability.
    But the report’s chosen timespan and unexplained notion of accountability are merely symptoms of a larger issue. What is missing from the report, above all, is any sense of history. The report treats the more than seven decades from 1945 until yesterday as a block. That is a long time in the life of even the most basic institutions. Could you inquire into family breakdown since 1945 or patterns of sexual activity over that timespan without giving considerable attention to demography, single parenthood, feminism, contraceptives, the “Sixties,” gay rights, and changing norms regarding autonomy, privacy, and personal fulfillment? Or, for another instance, race relations? Could you accurately describe the period from World War II to yesterday without highlighting the civil-rights movement, the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts, and the election of Barack Obama?


    https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/pa-grand-jury-report-not-what-it-seems?utm_source=Press+List&utm_campaign=f098968bc0-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_01_09_05_22&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_01bf0cc1e6-f098968bc0-92468121

    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    Re: A Second Look
    « Reply #16 on: February 04, 2019, 03:35:26 PM »
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  • This latest incarnation of the accusations hurled at the Novus Ordo Church reeks of a political stunt.  I think this is a means by the politically influential to box the Novus Ordo Church into a defensive position and a cornered one at that.  These Novus Ordo clerics have been doing the bidding of the enemy since the end of Vatican II so it shows to us, although never figured out by evildoers, is that you can't team up with evil because once it no longer needs your support it discards you.

    I don't engage in defense of the Novus Ordo but this latest much publicized storytelling is a planned event for either political expediency (we did see a sitting governor in one large state further liberalize abortion laws and a different sitting governor give what seemed to be approval for infanticide (although he was clear about making the baby comfortable - just what the world needs, merciful executioners).  With the Novus Ordo chasing after every fad that comes it's way, it just isn't capable of leading the flock, at least not leading the flock anywhere good. 



    Offline poche

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    Re: A Second Look
    « Reply #17 on: February 05, 2019, 12:03:25 AM »
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  • This latest incarnation of the accusations hurled at the Novus Ordo Church reeks of a political stunt.  I think this is a means by the politically influential to box the Novus Ordo Church into a defensive position and a cornered one at that.  These Novus Ordo clerics have been doing the bidding of the enemy since the end of Vatican II so it shows to us, although never figured out by evildoers, is that you can't team up with evil because once it no longer needs your support it discards you.

    I don't engage in defense of the Novus Ordo but this latest much publicized storytelling is a planned event for either political expediency (we did see a sitting governor in one large state further liberalize abortion laws and a different sitting governor give what seemed to be approval for infanticide (although he was clear about making the baby comfortable - just what the world needs, merciful executioners).  With the Novus Ordo chasing after every fad that comes it's way, it just isn't capable of leading the flock, at least not leading the flock anywhere good.
    I think it is a prelude to a persecution.

    Offline poche

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    Re: A Second Look
    « Reply #18 on: February 06, 2019, 12:05:07 AM »
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  • My own first encounter with sexual abuse came when I had just turned seventeen. I was working at a Boy Scout camp and discovered and managed to inform higher-ups that a camp official was abusing fourteen-year-old “trainees.” He was fired, and that was that. But of course it wasn’t. A school teacher, he moved to another state where, through an extraordinary coincidence, I learned years later that he continued to molest. That experience in the summer of 1958 sensitized me to the radical and welcome changes in societal responses to sexual abuse since the hush-hush attitudes that then prevailed among parents, victims, health care professionals, and law enforcement officials as well as Boy Scout authorities. It took time to recognize that child molestation, once portrayed as a threat from lurking strangers in raincoats, could be the work of family friends, doting uncles, Scoutmasters, physicians, fathers and stepfathers, or even an admired clergyman. It took even longer for therapists, judges, and legislatures to decide what to do about it.
    As for Catholicism, the Second Vatican Council, along with major social changes, disrupted the church and the shame and silence imposed by its deferential culture. Jogged by lawsuits and publicity and the very fact of increasing instances of abuse, bishops’ responses began to change, belatedly but significantly, in the late 1980s to mid-1990s. Attitudes took a definitive turn in 2002 with the bishops’ adoption of the Charter for the Protection of Children and Young People, passed in the wake of the Boston Globe’s revelations. Even sex abuse by priests has a history. If we are to believe the findings of the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, it increased in the latter 1960s, spiked in the ’70s, and declined in the ’80s.


    https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/pa-grand-jury-report-not-what-it-seems?utm_source=Press+List&utm_campaign=f098968bc0-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_01_09_05_22&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_01bf0cc1e6-f098968bc0-92468121

    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    Re: A Second Look
    « Reply #19 on: February 07, 2019, 10:52:39 AM »
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  • Don't overlook the fact that the Novus Ordo Church is a proverbial cash cow for the leftists in the U.S.  In addition to donations to leftwing causes (organizations that would, pre-Vatican II, be considered enemies of the Chuch) these faux-outrages usually lead to very large cash settlements that go directly to either the State (which in America circa 2019 is a force for evil) or leftist trial lawyers and anti-Catholic advocacy groups. 

    Billions in dollars exchanged between the Novus Ordo Church and the same group of enemies in that last go around (2002-2005). 

    One clear sign that these charges are all manufactured is the complete lack of any demand for evidence from the press.  The charges are just assumed to be true and the Novus Ordo is assumed to be guilty. 

    It's such a simple fix.  Any seminarian who shows any signs of sexual depravity should be screened out.  But I think it's pretty common knowledge that the Novus Ordo seminaries are only screening out Traditionalists.

    Here's a good question:  Why are these charges being recycled?  There is certainly no new evidence.  What's the reason?

     


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: A Second Look
    « Reply #20 on: February 07, 2019, 11:08:57 AM »
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  • Don't overlook the fact that the Novus Ordo Church is a proverbial cash cow for the leftists in the U.S.  In addition to donations to leftwing causes (organizations that would, pre-Vatican II, be considered enemies of the Chuch) these faux-outrages usually lead to very large cash settlements that go directly to either the State (which in America circa 2019 is a force for evil) or leftist trial lawyers and anti-Catholic advocacy groups.

    Billions in dollars exchanged between the Novus Ordo Church and the same group of enemies in that last go around (2002-2005).
    Very interesting incite, it all makes sense now.  They, the counterfeit Vatican II church and the NWO, are are colluding in the milking of the ignorant faithful, it is all about keeping the money stream going and the redirecting of the true faith to a powerless false sect, like all of the other false religions of the World. 
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline poche

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    Re: A Second Look
    « Reply #21 on: February 07, 2019, 10:47:41 PM »
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  • Very interesting incite, it all makes sense now.  They, the counterfeit Vatican II church and the NWO, are are colluding in the milking of the ignorant faithful, it is all about keeping the money stream going and the redirecting of the true faith to a powerless false sect, like all of the other false religions of the World.
    If they are such a cash cow, then why kill the goose that is giving you all that gold? 

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: A Second Look
    « Reply #22 on: February 08, 2019, 03:39:04 AM »
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  • If they are such a cash cow, then why kill the goose that is giving you all that gold?
    Indeed, that was my point, why kill the goose that is giving you all that gold, keep milking it forever. That is why ALL the Vatican II church hierarchy has not left as Martin Luther did. 
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline poche

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    Re: A Second Look
    « Reply #23 on: February 11, 2019, 05:35:21 AM »
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  • Indeed, that was my point, why kill the goose that is giving you all that gold, keep milking it forever. That is why ALL the Vatican II church hierarchy has not left as Martin Luther did.
    Maybe things are not really as you think.

    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    Re: A Second Look
    « Reply #24 on: February 11, 2019, 01:30:23 PM »
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  • If they are such a cash cow, then why kill the goose that is giving you all that gold?
    Where do you get the idea that the secular world wants the Novus Ordo Church killed? 
    They don't.  They would not want that.  When they aren't collected large sums of money from false charges, they have "Pope Francis" saying that things like "there's no such thing as right and wrong" or some such nonsense.
    This latest false charge (which allegedly has priests engaging in wrongdoing as far back as 70 years - wow!  Who's going to verify those charges?  Silly question, right?  No proof needed) will bring about a large settlement and more requirements of the Novus Ordo to post more warnings in their bulletins or even have a local government agent audit them regularly but there will again be more charges in another 9 - 14 years.  There is an endless supply of young gay men willing to say that Father So-and-So sexually assaulted me over a decade ago with no one around and no way of proving it. 
    I want to be clear that I am not defending the Novus Ordo.  But these going's-on are so contrived as to be laughable. 
    As for the where the Novus Ordo gets it's money, I have a hunch it's not through the Sunday basket.

    Offline poche

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    Re: A Second Look
    « Reply #25 on: February 12, 2019, 11:48:58 PM »
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  • The writers of the report from the attorney general’s office struggle mightily to discount this reality. The report’s conclusions about abuse and coverup are stated in timeless fashion. Whenever change is acknowledged, the language is begrudging.
    Readers who persevere to page 297 will find a mere eight pages devoted to “The Church and sex abuse: past and present,” i.e., before 2002 and after. Four pages simply expand on the opinions attributed to FBI “experts” cited in the introduction. These are said to demonstrate that euphemisms for sexual abuse found in church records (and evidently not elsewhere) are part of a “playbook” for concealment. This claim culminates in a half-page full-color chart illustrating this “circle of secrecy.” The phrase “circle of secrecy” and the corresponding analysis are attributed to then-Pittsburgh Bishop Donald Wuerl, who went on to serve as cardinal archbishop of Washington. (He recently resigned.)
    If curious or determined readers turn to page 1,124 of the report, they will discover that the words “circle of secrecy” are (a) not Wuerl’s and (b) have nothing to do with the way that the report uses them. Scribbled on a 1993 request from an offending priest for a return to ministry, the phrase signaled that despite his apparent recovery, the priest could not have an assignment without full public disclosure of his past conduct and treatment. As it happens, the priest’s request was refused. And the jotting wasn’t Wuerl’s. Before the report was issued, Wuerl informed the attorney general of this. His correction was ignored. The “circle of secrecy” concept and impressive chart appear to be entirely the concoction of the report’s writers.


    https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/pa-grand-jury-report-not-what-it-seems?utm_source=Press+List&utm_campaign=f098968bc0-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_01_09_05_22&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_01bf0cc1e6-f098968bc0-92468121


    Offline poche

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    Re: A Second Look
    « Reply #26 on: February 15, 2019, 11:00:28 PM »
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  • The next four pages correctly identify the 2002 Boston Globe exposé as critical in compelling the Catholic hierarchy to draft and implement the Charter for the Protection of Children and Young People. “On the whole,” the report allows, “the Charter did move things in the right direction.” But virtually every paragraph before and after that concession is skillfully written so as to minimize or dismiss the Charter’s importance.
    The grand-jury report prides itself on being a “historical record,” but this passing gesture toward a history is a caricature. It registers absolutely no account of the lengthy documents submitted to the grand jury by the six dioceses.
    These submissions can be captured by what Bishop Edward C. Malesic, the recently appointed bishop of Greensburg, stated for himself and his own diocese. The essential response to the grand jury’s report, he wrote in italics, “can be summarized in five words: This is not today’s Church.”

    https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/pa-grand-jury-report-not-what-it-seems?utm_source=Press+List&utm_campaign=f098968bc0-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_01_09_05_22&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_01bf0cc1e6-f098968bc0-92468121

    Offline poche

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    Re: A Second Look
    « Reply #27 on: February 23, 2019, 12:56:43 AM »
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  • As evidence, he and each of the other dioceses documented detailed policies, some dating from the mid-1990s but constantly updated and tightened, especially since the 2002 Dallas Charter, for facilitating and investigating allegations; suspending accused priests and removing them from all ministry if accusations prove credible; prompt reporting of allegations to law enforcement; establishing and empowering lay review boards with professional expertise to guide the bishop; offering outreach and assistance to victims; screening seminarians; instituting extensive preventative measures including rigorous background checks and mandatory training for all church workers and volunteers dealing with children and adolescents; education of parents; and opening all such programs to regular auditing by independent agencies. After 2002, some dioceses combed their files or opened them to district attorneys to make sure no abusing priests were still in ministry.
    There is no reason, of course, why a grand jury has to take such diocesan testimony at face value. Perhaps the impressive policies for handling and reporting allegations or assisting victims exist only on paper rather than in practice. Perhaps the impressive numbers of clergy, educators, youth workers, and employees vetted and trained, parents and students informed, dollars spent, and audits conducted are false, flimflam trumped up for public-relations purposes. Perhaps these impressive safeguards, many of which are less than two decades old, operate effectively in some dioceses, but not in others. These are serious possibilities that a serious grand-jury investigation might have looked into. There is not the slightest indication, not the slightest, that the grand jury even sought to give serious attention to the kind of extensive, detailed testimony that the dioceses submitted regarding their current policies and programs.
    The lack of historical consciousness blinds the grand-jury report to two other factors essential to understanding church officials’ responses to accusations of abuse. One was the recourse to therapeutic treatment. The other was the frequent gap between the time of abuse and the time of accusation. For both factors, the year 2002 was critical.   


    https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/pa-grand-jury-report-not-what-it-seems?utm_source=Press+List&utm_campaign=f098968bc0-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_01_09_05_22&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_01bf0cc1e6-f098968bc0-92468121

    Offline poche

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    Re: A Second Look
    « Reply #28 on: February 26, 2019, 11:24:39 PM »
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  • Recourse to treatment


    By the mid-1980s Catholic leaders began to emerge, all too unevenly, from their state of clerical denial and psychological cluelessness regarding sexual abuse. It was increasingly recognized that abuse of minors was not simply a sin requiring repentance, perhaps a retreat, and “a firm purpose of amendment”; such misconduct signaled a serious psychological pathology. Bishops began sending accused clergy for evaluation and treatment to a handful of treatment centers, mostly church-related and often originally founded to treat clerics suffering from alcoholism. At a time when official church procedures made removing individuals entirely from the priesthood an uncertain and prolonged affair, this “therapeutic option” seemed more promising. Unlike laicization it also seemed to maintain leverage over treated priests to comply with ongoing monitoring, restrictions, and aftercare.
    Serious questions about these centers and their effectiveness remain open. The litigation seeking compensation for victims, which has overwhelmingly informed and framed media coverage of the clergy sex-abuse scandal, has targeted bishops. The treatment centers have largely escaped public attention, except when victims’ lawyers argued that these centers were either telling the bishop, who was after all paying for their services, whatever he wanted to hear or giving him cover even when he ignored their recommendations. In fact, it was a controversial director of St. Luke Institute in Maryland who first raised the alarm that clergy abuse was not a problem of a few bad apples but a systemic one. Many individuals staffing those centers had good professional qualifications. Recidivism, they believed, was exceptional.   

    https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/pa-grand-jury-report-not-what-it-seems?utm_source=Press+List&utm_campaign=f098968bc0-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_01_09_05_22&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_01bf0cc1e6-f098968bc0-92468121

    I remember my mother asking if these were the same psychologists who were saying that there were marriages of 20+ years that were invalid. 

    Offline poche

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    Re: A Second Look
    « Reply #29 on: March 11, 2019, 12:45:52 AM »
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  • The Lyon court handed Cardinal Philippe Barbarin, Archbishop of Lyon, a six-month suspended prison sentence for not reporting the cases in the period between July 2014 and June 2015.
    The 68-year old cardinal was not present in the Lyon court on Thursday to hear his conviction. His lawyer, Jean-Felix Luciani, said he will appeal: “The court’s reasons do not convince me. We will therefore contest this decision,” the lawyer said, adding that the court had been under pressure as a result of documentaries and a film about the case.
    At the end of the trial in January the prosecutor had not sought punishment for the cardinal or the five other church officials accused alongside him.

    https://www.vaticannews.va/en/church/news/2019-03/cardinal-barbarin-suspended-sentence-lyon-abuse-vatiab.html

    Isn't he the one the prosecutor wanted to acquit?


     

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