Author Topic: Vatican I on the object of supernatural faith (Read 11098 times)

Ladislaus · « **Reply #35 on:** April 09, 2014, 02:08:50 PM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

I am aware that the existence of God can be deduced by reason alone. But this is also so in regards to His rewarding good and punishing evil?

Yep. God and all His natural attributes can be known by natural reason (i.e. that he's infinite, all-powerful, all-just, perfect, etc.).

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #36 on:** April 09, 2014, 02:11:58 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Quote from: Lover of Truth
I am aware that the existence of God can be deduced by reason alone. But this is also so in regards to His rewarding good and punishing evil?

Yep. God and all His natural attributes can be known by natural reason (i.e. that he's infinite, all-powerful, all-just, perfect, etc.).

I won't argue that point simply because I am not sure and believe you could be correct.

Not sure how this undermines BOD/B though.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #37 on:** April 09, 2014, 02:17:03 PM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

Quote from: Ladislaus
Quote from: Lover of Truth
I am aware that the existence of God can be deduced by reason alone. But this is also so in regards to His rewarding good and punishing evil?

Yep. God and all His natural attributes can be known by natural reason (i.e. that he's infinite, all-powerful, all-just, perfect, etc.).

I won't argue that point simply because I am not sure and believe you could be correct.

Not sure how this undermines BOD/B though.

Here's some reading material from the Catholic Encyclopedia on the matter.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06612a.htm

See the part about God as known through natural reason

I explained the implications for BoD above. Vatican I teaches that supernatural knowledge (=faith) requires a supernatural object by definition, one that can ONLY be known through revelation. Consequently, it's no longer tenable to say that one can have supernatural faith while having explicit belief only in the existence of a rewarder God. Consequently, the majority opinion that explicit knowledge of the Holy Trinity and the Incarnation are necessary for the possession of supernatural faith (and salvation) is now the only permissible opinion.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #38 on:** April 09, 2014, 02:18:48 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Quote from: Lover of Truth
Quote from: Ladislaus
Quote from: Lover of Truth
I am aware that the existence of God can be deduced by reason alone. But this is also so in regards to His rewarding good and punishing evil?

Yep. God and all His natural attributes can be known by natural reason (i.e. that he's infinite, all-powerful, all-just, perfect, etc.).

I won't argue that point simply because I am not sure and believe you could be correct.

Not sure how this undermines BOD/B though.

Here's some reading material from the Catholic Encyclopedia on the matter.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06612a.htm

See the part about God as known through natural reason

I explained the implications for BoD above. Vatican I teaches that supernatural knowledge (=faith) requires a supernatural object by definition, one that can ONLY be known through revelation. Consequently, it's no longer tenable to say that one can have supernatural faith while having explicit belief only in the existence of a rewarder God. Consequently, the majority opinion that explicit knowledge of the Holy Trinity and the Incarnation are necessary for the possession of supernatural faith (and salvation) is now the only permissible opinion.

You do not deny BOB/D completely?

Ladislaus · « **Reply #39 on:** April 09, 2014, 02:19:44 PM »

LoT, explain to me again why you reject and don't follow the teaching of St. Thomas Aquinas that explicit belief in the Holy Trinity and the central mysteries of the Incarnation are required for supernatural faith and therefore for salvation?