Author Topic: THE HOLY OFFICE LETTER SUPREMA HAEC SACRA (Read 2385 times)

Lover of Truth · « **on:** May 11, 2016, 02:00:58 PM »

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We are bound by divine and Catholic faith to believe all those things which are contained in the word of God, whether it be Scripture or Tradition, and are proposed by the Church to be believed as divinely revealed, not only through solemn judgment but also through the ordinary and universal teaching office (magisterium).

Some feeneyites deny that we have to accept what is divinely revealed through the ordinary and universal teaching office. Others deny that what is divinely revealed through the ordinary and universal teaching office is divinely revealed. Whatever it takes to deny the doctrine and hold fast to the feeneyite novelty.

Cantarella · « **Reply #1 on:** May 11, 2016, 03:49:59 PM »

This quote refers to infallible dogmas concerning the Word of God or Divine Revelation that we must hold with "Divine and Catholic faith". These can EITHER be taught solemnly, OR by the ordinary & universal magisterium. Nevertheless, this is about the teachings themselves the Magisterium declares "in a definitive way". It does not mean that very single statement from a Magisterial docuмent must be given the assent of "Divine and Catholic Faith"

There is nothing in Suprema Haec that Catholics must hold with "divine and Catholic Faith". There is not even a teaching there that the Magisterium declares "in a definitive way" regarding faith and morals, which, even if not part of the Divine Revelation (Depositum Fidei) itself, is intrinsically or historically connected with it.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #2 on:** May 12, 2016, 05:10:33 AM »

Therefore, no one will be saved who, knowing the Church to have been divinely established by Christ, nevertheless refuses to submit to the Church or withholds obedience from the Roman Pontiff, the Vicar of Christ on earth.

Stubborn · « **Reply #3 on:** May 12, 2016, 05:47:05 AM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

Therefore, no one will be saved who, knowing the Church to have been divinely established by Christ, nevertheless refuses to submit to the Church or withholds obedience from the Roman Pontiff, the Vicar of Christ on earth.

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.....Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is necessary that at least he be united to her by desire and longing.....These things are clearly taught in that dogmatic letter which was issued by the Sovereign Pontiff, Pope Pius XII, on June 29, 1943

Fr. Feeney, who many wrongfully say was not a member, per SH he certainly belonged to it anyway via desire and longing.

And since Fr. Feeney, received the the Last Rites before he died, he is to be counted among the faithful departed and on account of receiving the Last Sacraments before he died, is more likely to be in heaven than in purgatory.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #4 on:** May 12, 2016, 05:59:58 AM »

In His infinite mercy God has willed that the effects, necessary for one to be saved, of those helps to salvation which are directed towards man's final end, not by intrinsic necessity, but only by divine institution, can also be obtained in certain circuмstances when these helps are used only in intention or desire (ubi voto solummodo vel desiderio adhibeantur). This we see clearly stated in the Sacred Council of Trent, both with reference to the sacrament of regeneration and with reference to the sacrament of penance.

Stubborn · « **Reply #5 on:** May 12, 2016, 06:52:26 AM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

In His infinite mercy God has willed that the effects, necessary for one to be saved, of those helps to salvation which are directed towards man's final end, not by intrinsic necessity, but only by divine institution, can also be obtained in certain circuмstances when these helps are used only in intention or desire (ubi voto solummodo vel desiderio adhibeantur). This we see clearly stated in the Sacred Council of Trent, both with reference to the sacrament of regeneration and with reference to the sacrament of penance.

Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is necessary that at least he be united to her by desire and longing.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #6 on:** May 12, 2016, 06:55:49 AM »

In its own way, the same thing must be said about the Church, insofar as the Church itself is a general help to salvation. Therefore, in order that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is required that at least he be united to it by intention and desire.

Stubborn · « **Reply #7 on:** May 12, 2016, 07:16:29 AM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

In its own way, the same thing must be said about the Church, insofar as the Church itself is a general help to salvation. Therefore, in order that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is required that at least he be united to it by intention and desire.

Reading this, it should be clear to you that all The Letter did, was take Fr. Feeney from being incorporated into the Church actually as a member, to being united to it by intention and desire.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #8 on:** May 12, 2016, 07:18:35 AM »

However, this desire need not always be explicit, as it is in catechumens; but, when a person is involved in invincible ignorance, God accepts also an implicit intention (votum) which is so called because it is included in that good disposition of the soul whereby a person wishes his will to be conformed to the will of God.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #9 on:** May 12, 2016, 07:24:22 AM »

Note that the desire can be implicit. But Faith must be explicit and supernatural. Merely having a strong desire to have the minimal requirements of supernatural Faith based upon God revealing is not enough. And having the Faith is not enough apart from supernatural charity. I believe one with supernatural Faith and perfect charity (for perfect charity does not allow for culpable ignorance) is on the path to becoming a member of the Catholic Church and in normal circuмstances only death will stop such a person from joining her as a member.

Stubborn · « **Reply #10 on:** May 12, 2016, 07:40:40 AM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

However, this desire need not always be explicit, as it is in catechumens;.... God accepts also an implicit intention (votum) which is so called because it is included in that good disposition of the soul whereby a person wishes his will to be conformed to the will of God.

Here is yet more evidence that the bogus excommunication was little more than a slanderous exercise.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #11 on:** May 12, 2016, 07:44:02 AM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

Therefore, no one will be saved who, knowing the Church to have been divinely established by Christ, nevertheless refuses to submit to the Church or withholds obedience from the Roman Pontiff, the Vicar of Christ on earth.

Your interpretation of what this means is sheer Pelagianism.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #12 on:** May 12, 2016, 07:47:11 AM »

Yes, this was one of my first disputes with Lover of Heresy. LoH conflates religious submission and divine faith, thus effectively rendering any offhand remark in an allocution to have the same force as a solemn dogmatic definition in Trent. Unfortunately, this mentality -- which plagues many a sedevacantist -- leads to bizarre neurotic tendencies among them. With regard to LoH, his contempt for EENS has led to a psychosis ... the common effect of pertinacious heresy.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #13 on:** May 12, 2016, 07:49:19 AM »

These things are clearly taught in that dogmatic letter which was issued by the Sovereign Pontiff, Pope Pius XII, on June 29, 1943, "On the Mystical body of Jesus Christ." For in this letter the Sovereign Pontiff clearly distinguishes between those who are really (in re) incorporated into the Church as members and those who are joined to it only in intention (in voto).

Ladislaus · « **Reply #14 on:** May 12, 2016, 07:57:47 AM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

These things are clearly taught in that dogmatic letter which was issued by the Sovereign Pontiff, Pope Pius XII, on June 29, 1943, "On the Mystical body of Jesus Christ." For in this letter the Sovereign Pontiff clearly distinguishes between those who are really (in re) incorporated into the Church as members and those who are joined to it only in intention (in voto).

#1) Encyclicals are not per se dogmatic. You may wish to read your hero Msgr. Fenton's paper on the subject.

#2) Cite the passage and demonstrate that being joined to the Church in voto suffices for salvation if one were to die in that state.