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Author Topic: St. John Chrysostom on the Necessity of Water  (Read 2341 times)

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Re: St. John Chrysostom on the Necessity of Water
« Reply #30 on: Yesterday at 04:53:42 PM »
God is the one who defines “chance at salvation” not us.  We know infallibly that He grants it to all men.  We cannot, by human means, calculate and tabulate it. 

Ven Mary of Agreda bilocated and catechized Indians.  Confirmed my missionary priests.  

Re: St. John Chrysostom on the Necessity of Water
« Reply #31 on: Yesterday at 04:58:11 PM »
Except that several of you have explicitly  argued that they would see no issue that God lets millions of people with no chance of salvation at all, making the Redeemer's promise to all mankind into a joke !

As for those miracles you talk about, I am very interested in them, what books written by good Catholics or other material can I get to learn about those ?
Millions of unborn are murdered every year. 10-20% of pregnancies end in miscarriage. Even if we say 5% that would mean billions of miscarriages throughout history. Are these souls more deserving of being eternally deprived of the Beatific Vision than an ignorant American Indian who has committed actual sin?


Re: St. John Chrysostom on the Necessity of Water
« Reply #32 on: Yesterday at 05:42:47 PM »
Millions of unborn are murdered every year. 10-20% of pregnancies end in miscarriage. Even if we say 5% that would mean billions of miscarriages throughout history. Are these souls more deserving of being eternally deprived of the Beatific Vision than an ignorant American Indian who has committed actual sin?
Ending up in limbo isn't the same as ending up in hell.

To be perfectly honest , I am entirely ignorant on those matters and I am so incompetent that I can only ask AI about the subject.

When asking AI, it points to the school of Salamanca and the writings of a theologian named Francisco Vitoria in a book named Relectio de Indis (1539).

"Also, it is through no fault of theirs that these aborigines have for many centuries been outside the pale of salvation, in that they have been born in sin and void of baptism and the use of reason whereby to seek out the things needful for salvation. Accordingly I for the most part attribute their seeming so unintelligent and stupid to a bad and barbarous upbringing, for even among ourselves we find many peasants who differ little from brutes."

"There is no inconsistency, indeed, in holding the war to be a just war on both sides, seeing that on one side there is right and on the other side there is invincible ignorance."

This is completely outside of my expertise, so I all I can say is that I should study this when I get the time and I'll be back.

Investigating this might prove definitely who is right about the EENS dogma's interpretation. 

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Re: St. John Chrysostom on the Necessity of Water
« Reply #33 on: Yesterday at 10:44:54 PM »
Ending up in limbo isn't the same as ending up in hell. 
Limbo is part of hell, so...

Quote
To be perfectly honest , I am entirely ignorant on those matters and I am so incompetent that I can only ask AI about the subject. 
Your ignorance shows.  Read more, post less.  

Re: St. John Chrysostom on the Necessity of Water
« Reply #34 on: Today at 03:16:54 AM »
Invincible Ignorance can no longer be considered a thing by any stretch of the imagination.  The entire world has been evangelised by Catholics at some time and those who don't have the faith are paying the price for the choices of their ancestors.

Today the Shroud of Turin is enough to convince any skeptic if he is so inclined. Everyone today who is not a Catholic is there by choice. 

I can understand Lazarus being concerned about the Native Americans not having early access to religion, but as soon America was rediscovered, the missionaries went there to convert the natives, because even at that time Invincible Ignorance wasn't a consideration. The missionaries knew that they had the responsability to save their souls.