Author Topic: ordinary vs extraordinary means of salvation (Read 57305 times)

Deliveringit1 · « **on:** December 27, 2010, 04:15:57 PM »

I'm wondering about this. I hear some Catholics claim that God is not bound to ordinary means of salvation(meaning through the Sacraments and the Church which he established), but that God may be able to save souls through extraordinary means(such as to intercede immedietaly at the point of that person's death).

What are your thoughts on this? :confused1:

Telesphorus · « **Reply #1 on:** December 27, 2010, 04:18:00 PM »

Quote from: Deliveringit1

I'm wondering about this. I hear some Catholics claim that God is not bound to ordinary means of salvation(meaning through the Sacraments and the Church which he established), but that God may be able to save souls through extraordinary means of salvation(such as to intecede immedietaly at the point of that person's death).

What are your thoughts on this? :confused1:

Do you really believe that God condemned all souls to hell who were unable to hear the Gospel from members (excepting those in heaven) of the Church?

Are Catholics bound to believe that?

I don't.

Deliveringit1 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 27, 2010, 04:23:44 PM »

Telesphorus, so you believe there is "salvation outside of the Church" ?

Bazz · « **Reply #3 on:** December 27, 2010, 04:29:56 PM »

I won't attempt to "re-invent the wheel", so here goes:

St. Augustine, "Treatise on Baptism"
"When we speak of within and without in relation to the Church, it is the position of the heart that we must consider, not that of the body."

St. Bernard, "De Baptismo"
"What is clearer than that the will is taken for the act, when the act is excluded by necessity?"

St. Thomas Aquinas "Summa Theologica"
"...a man receives the effect of Baptism by the power of the Holy Ghost, not only without Baptism of Water, but also without Baptism of Blood: forasmuch as his heart is moved by the Holy Ghost to believe in and love God and to repent of his sins: wherefore this is also called Baptism of Repentance."

St. Thomas Aquinas "Summa Theologica"
"So also before Baptism Cornelius and others like him receive grace and virtues through their faith in Christ and their desire for Baptism, implicit or explicit"

St. Thomas Aquinas "Summa Theologica"
"man receives the forgiveness of sins before Baptism in so far as he has Baptism of desire, explicitly or implicitly"

"Catechism of the Council of Trent":
"....should any unforeseen accident deprive adults of baptism, their intention of receiving it, and their repentance for past sins, will avail them to grace and righteousness." [section on baptism]

"...such is the efficacy of true contrition...that through it we obtain from God the immediate pardon of our sins." [section on penance]

Deliveringit1 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 27, 2010, 04:40:17 PM »

Bazz, those statements which you have posted from several Saints and from the catechism are not infallible statements. Plus there are numerous Saints who claimed that water baptism and the Church were the only means of salvation.

Are there any infallible statements from the Church that address this issue?