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Poll

Can Protestants be saved, without becoming Catholic, at least in the hour of death?

Yes, they can be saved, as Protestants, provided invincible ignorance excuses them from heresy.
8 (19%)
I'm not sure if they can be saved. I assume they can be and so it's ok to leave them in ignorance.
0 (0%)
I'm not sure if they can be saved. I assume they can't be and thus I pray and work to convert them.
9 (21.4%)
No, Protestants cannot be saved without having become Catholic before death.
23 (54.8%)
Other (please explain).
2 (4.8%)

Total Members Voted: 34

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Author Topic: Do you believe Protestants, as Protestants, can be saved?  (Read 16691 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Do you believe Protestants, as Protestants, can be saved?
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2018, 08:16:28 AM »
XavierSem, you're not going to last very long in any Traditional Catholic seminary that I know of.  You'll quickly be labeled a "Feeneyite heretic".  [This is not a criticism but an observation, since I personally identify with "Feeneyism" myself.]
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Offline Jaynek

Re: Do you believe Protestants, as Protestants, can be saved?
« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2018, 08:19:44 AM »
XavierSem, I think what you are trying to say is actually correct.   Unfortunately you have not expressed yourself clearly.  Several people have tried to tell you this.

From my perspective, one of the major problems facing the Church since Vatican II has been lack of clarity and precision in supposedly magisterial teaching.  Being concerned with clarity is not petty squabbling about words.  It is a desperate need of the Church right now.  You can't just put something out there and expect everyone to guess what you mean.

I really appreciate your zeal for the Faith and tend to appreciate your posts.  Zeal, however, needs to be tempered by humility.  I suggest you pray about and discuss with your spiritual director your ability to accept correction.  Also, some people on this forum are going to offer corrections harshly.  Do not be discouraged by this.  It offers you an excellent opportunity to grow in virtue.

(And if you don't have a spiritual director yet, I recommend you make finding one a high priority.)
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Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Do you believe Protestants, as Protestants, can be saved?
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2018, 08:21:15 AM »
Quote from: XavierSem on September 17, 2018, 04:04:12 AM
If they are invincibly ignorant, they are material heretics.

Not necessarily.  Depending on the degree of ignorance, they may be formal heretics.  If they lack sufficient knowledge to be able to have the formal motive of faith, then they are still formal heretics ... even if the sin of (active) infidelity is not imputed to them due to their ignorance (cf. St. Thomas).  Formal heresy is not (necessarily) to be equated with the sin of infidelity.  It has to do with the formal motive of faith (vs. the material objects of faith), the WHY of belief vs. the WHAT.  Theoretically, someone could believe very single teaching of the Church and still be a formal heretic.  Also, one could be invincibly ignorant and not culpable and still be a formal heretic.
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Offline Jaynek

Re: Do you believe Protestants, as Protestants, can be saved?
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2018, 08:32:48 AM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on September 17, 2018, 08:21:15 AM
 Also, one could be invincibly ignorant and not culpable and still be a formal heretic.
I'm having trouble getting my head around this one.  Could you please give a hypothetical scenario in which this occurs.
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Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: Do you believe Protestants, as Protestants, can be saved?
« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2018, 08:44:35 AM »
Invincible ignorance should never be introduced into any EENS discussion because God alone knows those whom He chose to leave invincibly ignorant of Himself and the means of salvation, iow, no one. Facing that reality, being invincibly ignorant means that only when one is brain damaged and on that account is incapable of learning, period. Other than that, no one is invincibly ignorant of the true faith and means of salvation except by their own choice.    
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