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Author Topic: Fr. Wathen - "The Matter of Baptism of Desire"  (Read 5707 times)

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Fr. Wathen - "The Matter of Baptism of Desire"
« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2017, 05:25:56 PM »
Quote from: GJC
Quote from: BumphreyHogart
Quote from: GJC
Quote from: BumphreyHogart
We yammer about it, because you Feeneyites keep bringing it up and dishonestly try to say that we say invincible ignorance gives salvation. If you would stop dishonestly yammering in the first place it could be done with.


Look who the dishonest one is:

Quote from: BumphreyHogart
Someone who is in good faith in his errors, does NOT mean that he could be saved BY that system of errors, but in spite of them.


Then you have the superior temerity to accuse Pius IX of supporting your Pelagian heresy. However, YOU who are hoodwinked by the modernist clergy you follow, and I suspect I know who they are based on your quote, don't have the slightest clue what Pius IX is communicating when he uses the words "can...attain" salvation, since you have no clue of what "sufficient grace" means and the issues Pius IX contended with from the Jansenists and Calvinists at that time. Not to mention the more important issue of liberals'/modernists'/heretics' which you have fell in line with.



Apparently you don't even know what "in spite of" means. Go look it up.



Of course I do, who are you trying to be now? Cill Blinton

He was saved in spite of his ignorance. Period! That is what you are saying.



I said "system of errors" and now you turn it into "ignorance"!!  You cannot even get something as simple as this straight right here, never mind understanding perennial teaching.

Fr. Wathen - "The Matter of Baptism of Desire"
« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2017, 10:28:08 PM »
Quote from: BumphreyHogart
Quote from: GJC
Quote from: BumphreyHogart
Quote from: GJC
Quote from: BumphreyHogart
We yammer about it, because you Feeneyites keep bringing it up and dishonestly try to say that we say invincible ignorance gives salvation. If you would stop dishonestly yammering in the first place it could be done with.


Look who the dishonest one is:

Quote from: BumphreyHogart
Someone who is in good faith in his errors, does NOT mean that he could be saved BY that system of errors, but in spite of them.


Then you have the superior temerity to accuse Pius IX of supporting your Pelagian heresy. However, YOU who are hoodwinked by the modernist clergy you follow, and I suspect I know who they are based on your quote, don't have the slightest clue what Pius IX is communicating when he uses the words "can...attain" salvation, since you have no clue of what "sufficient grace" means and the issues Pius IX contended with from the Jansenists and Calvinists at that time. Not to mention the more important issue of liberals'/modernists'/heretics' which you have fell in line with.



Apparently you don't even know what "in spite of" means. Go look it up.



Of course I do, who are you trying to be now? Cill Blinton

He was saved in spite of his ignorance. Period! That is what you are saying.



I said "system of errors" and now you turn it into "ignorance"!!  You cannot even get something as simple as this straight right here, never mind understanding perennial teaching.


A system of errors in this case is not the product of invincible ignorance? Then it must be negligence and they are condemned for unbelief.


Re: Fr. Wathen - "The Matter of Baptism of Desire"
« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2018, 10:19:57 PM »


If I may,
the issue is even worse than Universal Salvation; it is entirely possible that the True Church is actually an impediment to salvation! Consider the dying "invincible ignorant" who is on his death bed. He's lived as a chaste Buddhist monk who "implicitly" desires baptism. If a Catholic missionary were to visit him now, he must reject his life long devil worship (Buddhism), concede that all of his past actions and thoughts have no merit in eternity, and submit to a Church who's head he has never even heard of. Alas for the poor man who was on his way to heaven but now, this stranger's words are too much for him and he's off to hell. The Holy Roman Catholic Church is an impediment to salvation! This is blasphemy!

God bless,
JoeZ
.
Very well said! Thank you.