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Author Topic: Council of Florence: a final nail in the coffin of BoD  (Read 21108 times)

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Offline OABrownson1876

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Re: Council of Florence: a final nail in the coffin of BoD
« Reply #50 on: February 20, 2025, 10:56:22 AM »
There's no reason those in Heaven can't visit Limbo.  Why not?  So, the Rich Man was clearly in Hell, not Limbo (of the Fathers), whereas the Lazarus was the one in the "bosom of Abraham", i.e. Limbo of the Fathers.
Lazarus is an interesting case because he presumably died under the Old Law when Our Lord raised him to life; Lazarus then, if I recall, was baptized, became a bishop in France (first bishop of Marseilles), and then died years later under the New Law.  Feast day, Dec. 17. 

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Council of Florence: a final nail in the coffin of BoD
« Reply #51 on: February 20, 2025, 11:22:43 AM »
Lazarus is an interesting case because he presumably died under the Old Law when Our Lord raised him to life; Lazarus then, if I recall, was baptized, became a bishop in France (first bishop of Marseilles), and then died years later under the New Law.  Feast day, Dec. 17.

I think it's disputed whether the Lazarus in Our Lord's parable is the same one as was raised later.


Re: Council of Florence: a final nail in the coffin of BoD
« Reply #52 on: February 20, 2025, 11:24:53 AM »
I have mentioned before in a previous thread, in the life of St. Martin of Tours, some girl died unbaptized.  The monks knew that she was not baptized.  They kept her body in the monastery for six months and prayed to St. Martin.  St. Martin showed up at the monastery, raised the girl to life, baptized her, and she died.

Where was the girl's soul during these six months?  If she had baptism of desire, then why water baptism? 
This story seems to prove that this girl was in a true good will and God did not permit for her to be damned. I guess that's what should happen to every person of good will?

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Council of Florence: a final nail in the coffin of BoD
« Reply #53 on: February 20, 2025, 11:27:51 AM »
I have mentioned before in a previous thread, in the life of St. Martin of Tours, some girl died unbaptized.  The monks knew that she was not baptized.  They kept her body in the monastery for six months and prayed to St. Martin.  St. Martin showed up at the monastery, raised the girl to life, baptized her, and she died.

Where was the girl's soul during these six months?  If she had baptism of desire, then why water baptism? 

Yeah, good question.  Was she in a holding place like Limbo?  Or was here soul still somehow attached to her body, where she was in a state like that of coma?

If I recall from the St. Peter Claver story, the woman who had been raised said that she was in some beautiful place, filled with light, but then was told she couldn't go any further.

There are probably many different areas and regions in the after-life or after-world, but God simply did not reveal all the details.  He didn't even reveal Limbo of Infants, as that was the result of theological speculation.  God probably very deliberately emphasized the extreme tortures of the deepest Hell vs. the ineffable bliss of Heaven as the two poles, since a gray area would hardly incentivize most people from committing sin and doing evil, and only the fear of the extreme sufferings of Hell would have that effect.

While these need to be taken with a huge grain of salt, many people in these NDEs report being in places of great natural happiness, peace, and love ... but obviously they would not have entered the Heaven of the Beatific vision.  Some stopped at these gates, beyond which presumably was Heaven proper and the Beatific Vision.  St. Paul went to the Third Heaven ... but it didn't appear as though he experienced the Beatific Vision, since I don't believe you "come back" from that, and he would have tried to relate that in his Epistle.  SO there are more things in Heaven than are dreamt of in our philosophy.

Online Stubborn

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Re: Council of Florence: a final nail in the coffin of BoD
« Reply #54 on: February 20, 2025, 11:37:27 AM »
There's no reason those in Heaven can't visit Limbo.  Why not?  So, the Rich Man was clearly in Hell, not Limbo (of the Fathers), whereas the Lazarus was the one in the "bosom of Abraham", i.e. Limbo of the Fathers.
Well, as I said, who knows? Nobody. The only thing for sure is that in this world, the mother can take some type of comfort knowing her baby is not suffering.

We've heard stories about saints in heaven and damned souls in hell visiting the living, and the living seeing purgatory, hell and heaven etc., but nothing whatsoever about anyone visiting or seeing Limbo, or anything about souls in Limbo at all, nothing at all. We really know nothing about it outside of knowing that Limbo exists.