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Author Topic: Mel Gibson  (Read 10427 times)

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Offline Nadir

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Re: Mel Gibson
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2022, 06:22:09 AM »
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  • Exclusive? Here is St. Paul writing to the church in Romans 16:
    "And the God of peace crush Satan under your feet speedily." Douay-Rheims

    "And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly" KJV

    The 'protestant rewrite' happens to be more consistent between Genesis and this passage here so it seems that the Douay-Rheims is the one that falls short.
    In Romans 16, St Paul is adressing the saints in Rome, so in the first quote “your feet” is referring to the feet of the saints in Rome.


    In Genesis 3[15] I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.

    [15] "She shall crush": Ipsa, the woman; so divers of the fathers read this place, conformably to the Latin: others read it ipsum, viz., the seed. The sense is the same: for it is by her seed, Jesus Christ, that the woman crushes the serpent's head.

    How is the “protestant rewrite” more consistent than drbo with Genesis 3:15.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024

    Offline buxtehude

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    Re: Mel Gibson
    « Reply #16 on: June 24, 2022, 09:55:53 PM »
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  • In Romans 16, St Paul is adressing the saints in Rome, so in the first quote “your feet” is referring to the feet of the saints in Rome.


    In Genesis 3. [15] I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.

    [15] "She shall crush": Ipsa, the woman; so divers of the fathers read this place, conformably to the Latin: others read it ipsum, viz., the seed. The sense is the same: for it is by her seed, Jesus Christ, that the woman crushes the serpent's head.

    How is the “protestant rewrite” more consistent than drbo with Genesis 3:15.
    Referring to the feet of the saints/church in Rome is what I already said. Tell that to Incredulous who said it was exclusive to Mary.


    Offline Thorn

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    Re: Mel Gibson
    « Reply #17 on: June 24, 2022, 10:16:52 PM »
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  • I went to see The Passion when it first came out & everyone was raving about it.  I was unimpressed with it.  
    "I will lead her into solitude and there I will speak to her heart.  Osee 2:14

    Offline buxtehude

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    Re: Mel Gibson
    « Reply #18 on: June 24, 2022, 11:27:20 PM »
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  • How is the “protestant rewrite” more consistent than drbo with Genesis 3:15.
    The results speak for themselves. The DRB led people to think that it was talking about Mary and not the seed of woman and the on going war between the seed (mankind) and the serpent.

    Offline Miser Peccator

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    Re: Mel Gibson
    « Reply #19 on: June 24, 2022, 11:43:15 PM »
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  • The results speak for themselves. The DRB led people to think that it was talking about Mary and not the seed of woman and the on going war between the seed (mankind) and the serpent.

    Who do you think this "woman" is?  The ARK (which was OVERSHADOWED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT)  was seen and the "woman" does battle with the dragon who made war with her seed. 

    Are you one of her seed?






    The Apocalypse of St John 11(Revelation)>

    [19] And the temple of God was opened in heaven: and the ark of his testament was seen in his temple, and there were lightnings, and voices, and an earthquake, and great hail.




    The Apocalypse of St John (Revelation)  Chapter 12
    The vision of the woman clothed with the sun and of the great dragon her persecutor.

    [1] And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars: [2] And being with child, she cried travailing in birth, and was in pain to be delivered. [3] And there was seen another sign in heaven: and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads, and ten horns: and on his heads seven diadems: [4] And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to be delivered; that, when she should be delivered, he might devour her son. [5] And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with an iron rod: and her son was taken up to God, and to his throne.

    [1] "A woman": The church of God. It may also, by allusion, be applied to our blessed Lady. The church is clothed with the sun, that is, with Christ: she hath the moon, that is, the changeable things of the world, under her feet: and the twelve stars with which she is crowned, are the twelve apostles: she is in labour and pain, whilst she brings forth her children, and Christ in them, in the midst of afflictions and persecutions.

    [6] And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she had a place prepared by God, that there they should feed her a thousand two hundred sixty days. [7] And there was a great battle in heaven, Michael and his angels fought with the dragon, and the dragon fought and his angels: [8] And they prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven. [9] And that great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, who seduceth the whole world; and he was cast unto the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. [10] And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying: Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: because the accuser of our brethren is cast forth, who accused them before our God day and night.

    [11] And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of the testimony, and they loved not their lives unto death. [12] Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you that dwell therein. Woe to the earth, and to the sea, because the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, knowing that he hath but a short time. [13] And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman, who brought forth the man child: [14] And there were given to the woman two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the desert unto her place, where she is nourished for a time and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. [15] And the serpent cast out of his mouth after the woman, water as it were a river; that he might cause her to be carried away by the river.

    [16] And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the river, which the dragon cast out of his mouth. [17] And the dragon was angry against the woman: and went to make war with the rest of her seed, who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. [18] And he stood upon the sand of the sea.



    http://www.drbo.org/chapter/73012.htm
    I exposed AB Vigano's public meetings with Crowleyan Satanist Dugin so I ask protection on myself family friends priest, under the Blood of Jesus Christ and mantle of the Blessed Virgin Mary! If harm comes to any of us may that embolden the faithful to speak out all the more so Catholics are not deceived.



    [fon


    Offline Emile

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    Re: Mel Gibson
    « Reply #20 on: June 25, 2022, 12:14:58 AM »
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  • The results speak for themselves. The DRB led people to think that it was talking about Mary and not the seed of woman and the on going war between the seed (mankind) and the serpent.


    https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.325859/page/187/mode/1up?view=theater
    If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?

    ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

    Offline buxtehude

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    Re: Mel Gibson
    « Reply #21 on: June 25, 2022, 01:12:18 AM »
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  • Who do you think this "woman" is?  The ARK (which was OVERSHADOWED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT)  was seen and the "woman" does battle with the dragon who made war with her seed. 

    Are you one of her seed?






    The Apocalypse of St John 11(Revelation)>

    [19] And the temple of God was opened in heaven: and the ark of his testament was seen in his temple, and there were lightnings, and voices, and an earthquake, and great hail.




    The Apocalypse of St John (Revelation)  Chapter 12
    The vision of the woman clothed with the sun and of the great dragon her persecutor.

    [1] And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars: [2] And being with child, she cried travailing in birth, and was in pain to be delivered. [3] And there was seen another sign in heaven: and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads, and ten horns: and on his heads seven diadems: [4] And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to be delivered; that, when she should be delivered, he might devour her son. [5] And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with an iron rod: and her son was taken up to God, and to his throne.

    [1] "A woman": The church of God. It may also, by allusion, be applied to our blessed Lady. The church is clothed with the sun, that is, with Christ: she hath the moon, that is, the changeable things of the world, under her feet: and the twelve stars with which she is crowned, are the twelve apostles: she is in labour and pain, whilst she brings forth her children, and Christ in them, in the midst of afflictions and persecutions.

    [6] And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she had a place prepared by God, that there they should feed her a thousand two hundred sixty days. [7] And there was a great battle in heaven, Michael and his angels fought with the dragon, and the dragon fought and his angels: [8] And they prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven. [9] And that great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, who seduceth the whole world; and he was cast unto the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. [10] And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying: Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: because the accuser of our brethren is cast forth, who accused them before our God day and night.

    [11] And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of the testimony, and they loved not their lives unto death. [12] Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you that dwell therein. Woe to the earth, and to the sea, because the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, knowing that he hath but a short time. [13] And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman, who brought forth the man child: [14] And there were given to the woman two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the desert unto her place, where she is nourished for a time and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. [15] And the serpent cast out of his mouth after the woman, water as it were a river; that he might cause her to be carried away by the river.

    [16] And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the river, which the dragon cast out of his mouth. [17] And the dragon was angry against the woman: and went to make war with the rest of her seed, who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. [18] And he stood upon the sand of the sea.



    http://www.drbo.org/chapter/73012.htm
    You're proving my point. The DRB has misled you to think it is about Mary vs the serpent when it is rather about the sons of Adam throughout all the ages against whom the serpent is at war.

    Offline Miser Peccator

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    Re: Mel Gibson
    « Reply #22 on: June 25, 2022, 03:36:18 AM »
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  • You're proving my point. The DRB has misled you to think it is about Mary vs the serpent when it is rather about the sons of Adam throughout all the ages against whom the serpent is at war.
    The "sons of Adam" keep the commandments of God and have testimony of Jesus Christ? 

    Hardly.   

    [17] And the dragon was angry against the woman: and went to make war with the rest of her seed, who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    Do "all the sons of Adam" keep the commandments?

    Do "all the sons of Adam" have the testimony of Jesus Christ?

    No.  Only Christians.

    Mary is the Mother of All Christians.

    They are her seed.

    The womb of Mary is the ARK of the New Covenant.

    Like the OT ark Mary was overshadowed by the Holy Ghost.

    Her womb is the ARK which brought forth the Word Made Flesh.

    The OT ark carried the staff of Moses and the manna of the desert.

    Within Mary, the Ark of the New Covenant, was the Good Shepherd Himself, and the Manna From Heaven.

    That is why St John says the ark of His testament appears and then describes the woman clothed with the sun.

    What woman is this who brought forth the "man child to rule all nations"?

    Eve?

    No.  It's the new Eve.

    Mary.

    What woman is the dragon was angry with?

    Mary.

    The evil one is at enmity with "her seed".

    "Her seed" is Jesus Christ and all His followers.

    This is in perfect congruence with Genesis 3: 15


    [15] I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed.


    I exposed AB Vigano's public meetings with Crowleyan Satanist Dugin so I ask protection on myself family friends priest, under the Blood of Jesus Christ and mantle of the Blessed Virgin Mary! If harm comes to any of us may that embolden the faithful to speak out all the more so Catholics are not deceived.



    [fon


    Offline buxtehude

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    Re: Mel Gibson
    « Reply #23 on: June 25, 2022, 06:30:16 AM »
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  • "And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat. And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly
    shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." Genesis 3

    Is the devil not actively leading astray and destroying all of mankind? While he chiefly seeks to destroy the obedient sons of Adam he seeks to pervert and destroy the rest too. It is this fuller and more complete picture which you are lacking. I think your use of the DRB and its translation of Genesis 3:15 has led to that.

    Offline Miser Peccator

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    Re: Mel Gibson
    « Reply #24 on: June 25, 2022, 08:21:29 AM »
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  • "And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat. And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly
    shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." Genesis 3

    Is the devil not actively leading astray and destroying all of mankind? While he chiefly seeks to destroy the obedient sons of Adam he seeks to pervert and destroy the rest too. It is this fuller and more complete picture which you are lacking. I think your use of the DRB and its translation of Genesis 3:15 has led to that.

    It can be confusing, but do you think that St John was missing your fuller and more complete picture of Scripture?



    There are two women spoken of in Genesis 3  (Eve and Mary)

    and only one woman in Apoc 12  (Mary).

     

    Apocolypse 12 clearly references Gen 3:

    [15] I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed.


    That's verbetim from Gen 3 right?  St John knew Scripture.



    Is St John talking about enmities with Eve and her seed (the sons of Adam) or Mary and her seed (Christians) ?

    Let's take a closer look.



    Was there really "enmity" between the serpent and Eve or did Eve actually join the serpent's team?

    St John gives the answer in the passage from Apoc 12:


    [9] And that great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, who seduceth the whole world

    Satan seduced Eve and the whole world.  No war going on there.  No enmity.



    So who does Satan battle?  Have enmity with?


    St John tells us Satan is angry with the woman who gives birth to a man child who was to rule all nations:


    [5] And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with an iron rod: and her son was taken up to God, and to his throne.

    Would that be Eve or Mary?  Mary.

    [17] And the dragon was angry against the woman: and went to make war with the rest of her seed, who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    Would that woman be Eve or Mary?

    He already seduced Eve and her descendants.  They are on the same team.  No enmity or battle going on with them.

    Clearly that is Mary.




    Satan shows his enmity for her:

    [13] And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman, who brought forth the man child

    So after Mary gives birth to the man child (Jesus) he goes to make war with her and the rest of her seed (Christians).



    Satan wasn't angry with Eve and her seed.

    He was angry with Mary and made war with her seed.

    Mary crushes Satan's head by her seed---Jesus!



    According to Haydock, either translation leads to the same conclusion:

    [15] "She shall crush": Ipsa, the woman; so divers of the fathers read this place, conformably to the Latin: others read it ipsum, viz., the seed.

    The sense is the same: for it is by her seed, Jesus Christ, that the woman crushes the serpent's head.---Haydock




























    I exposed AB Vigano's public meetings with Crowleyan Satanist Dugin so I ask protection on myself family friends priest, under the Blood of Jesus Christ and mantle of the Blessed Virgin Mary! If harm comes to any of us may that embolden the faithful to speak out all the more so Catholics are not deceived.



    [fon

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Mel Gibson
    « Reply #25 on: June 25, 2022, 08:26:41 AM »
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  • The 'protestant rewrite' happens to be more consistent between Genesis and this passage here so it seems that the Douay-Rheims is the one that falls short.

    Pffft.  As the DR footnote points out, the Church Fathers were divided based on variants in the text and there's no question of being "more" or "less" consistent with Genesis.  Question is the text of Genesis itself.  And I'll take St. Jerome's reading of the text over yours (or that of the Prots) any day.  St. Jerome used he Septuagint, which likely more accurately reflects the original Hebrew than the Hebrew texts that survived (which in many places were deliberately altered to expunge Christian reading of the OT).


    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: Mel Gibson
    « Reply #26 on: June 25, 2022, 10:37:18 AM »
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  • Pffft.  As the DR footnote points out, the Church Fathers were divided based on variants in the text and there's no question of being "more" or "less" consistent with Genesis.  Question is the text of Genesis itself.  And I'll take St. Jerome's reading of the text over yours (or that of the Prots) any day.  St. Jerome used he Septuagint, which likely more accurately reflects the original Hebrew than the Hebrew texts that survived (which in many places were deliberately altered to expunge Christian reading of the OT).

    Yes. The Apostles often cited the Septuagint text in Holy Scripture, lending support to its variations from the Jєωs’ Masoretic, Hebrew text of the Rabbis.
    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Mel Gibson
    « Reply #27 on: June 25, 2022, 10:44:33 AM »
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  • Extensive discussion of the "Hebrew Bible" fraud: http://judaism.is/hebrew-bible.html

    Offline LeMond

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    Re: Mel Gibson
    « Reply #28 on: June 25, 2022, 11:00:24 AM »
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  • [...]

    Everything said hitherto that rebuts your position is true, and here is another way to look at Genesis 3:15

    Blessed Mary crushes the head of the Serpent by her consent to Divine will to bear the only true Messiah. She walked the walk not only talked the talk, just as her Divine Son put His Skin in the game by genetically manifesting Himself here as the New Covenant and having to endure the sins of the world upon Himself. He walked the walk not only talked the talk (giving us the scripture). The fact that Blessed Mary, in her expressed words "be it done to me according to thy word", consents to Divine will to bear the only true Messiah
    , and her living a life free from sin by her own free will (not an internal programming or mechanism that bypassed free will), and her being the Immaculate Conception, is what crushes the head of the Serpent. God chose to use a most pure and obedient Ark to enter the world and save those who are baptized into Him and live His word. The Ark is Mary. He didn't need Mary. God doesn't need anyone or anything, but He chose Mary because she passed the Litmus Test in her life. She is the best warrior in the gladiatorial arena that determines who each and every one of us really are and determines where we will go for eternity. God could've entered the world in any way but He chose Mary because she passed where everyone else failed. Her life and "yes" crushes the head of the Serpent, for without Blessed Mary, humanity would likely still be waiting for the Son of God to become flesh and dwell among and save us, and the souls in the Bosom of Abraham would still be there and not released to Heaven.

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Mel Gibson
    « Reply #29 on: June 25, 2022, 09:27:08 PM »
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  • Extensive discussion of the "Hebrew Bible" fraud: http://judaism.is/hebrew-bible.html

    Yes!
     Let us never forget the continual false writings, misdirection and infiltration of Catholic literature and the Holy Scriptures by the jews.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi