Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: SSPX Fake Priests  (Read 114893 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Änσnymσus

  • Guest
Re: SSPX Fake Priests
« Reply #180 on: August 04, 2025, 08:34:24 AM »
'Positive doubt' is a canonical term applied after a Rite or the administration of a sacrament has been found, by the correct authorities and in accordance to specific guidelines , to be lacking in some essential element to render it possibly invalid. 
Correct.  Many Trad clerics (including +Tissier from the sspx and Fr Scott) and many others who were non-sspx, have reached the same conclusion, since the 1970s.  This is not some new development.

Quote
Now you are correct when you state that very significant changes have been made to the episcopal rite of consecration, but has it been established as invalid? No.
These very significant changes = positive doubt.

Positive doubt = possibly valid.

Quote
Has a 'positive doubt' been established? Certainly there are serious reasons to cause one to have doubts - not knowing one way or another - but has a 'Positive doubt' been established?
Positive doubt = serious reasons to cause doubt.  Yes, these serious reasons establish doubt.

Quote
You make mention of the Anglican Rite that Pope Leo XIII declared to be "absolutely invalid, null, and void" but this has no bearing on the Catholic New Rite as it have not been declared upon.
The problems with the anglican rite are also present in the new rite.  This is part of the "serious reasons" why there are doubts.


Quote
In fact, as we have established, even his Lordship Williamson believed the New Rite to be valid. Why was that?
He's in the minority opinion.  But even he conditionally consecrated +Vigano, so he obviously had some doubts.


Quote
We have also established that His Grace Archbishop Lefebvre only re-ordained when each individual case was investigated on its own merits; not simply because they were ordained in the New Rite. Why was that?
In the time when the new rites came out, til Lefebvre's death (60s-early 90s), there were still TRUE RITE bishops who were ordaining.  These ordinations would've been valid.  But now...all the TRUE RITE bishops (pre-V2) are dead.  You can no longer compare +ABL's time to ours.  


Quote
Now along comes Mr. Ladislaus who declares that the SSPX are all modernists because they do not treat the New Rite of Ordinations as invalid as he wants them to.
:facepalm:  Positive doubt does not declare anything invalid.  You continue to misinterpret the argument.  Are you doing this on purpose?


Quote
If no 'positive doubt' has been established in the New Rite,
There are many, many reasons to establish positive doubt.  Go look up what Bishop Tissier said many times, and also go read the article posted from Fr Scott.  All these reasons still exist.


Quote
if it has not been declared as invalid,
Only the Church can declare it invalid.  This is stupid argument and has no place here.  All that is required is positive doubt, which is, AS CANON LAW SAYS, is to TREAT IT as invalid.  

The bar is pretty low for positive doubt, because The Church, through Canon Law, does NOT WANT THE FAITHFUL TO TAKE RISKS WITH SACRAMENTS.  Going to positively doubtful sacraments IS A RISK TO YOUR SALVATION.


Quote
then I as a Catholic must be content with this ruling trusting that the SSPX will make the right decision about each individual case as it has always done. 

1.  The new-sspx isn't infallible.
1b.  The new-sspx isn't the Church; they can't make "rulings".
2.  The new-sspx has changed their view on the new rites, in opposition to Bishop Tissier and Fr Scott (and others).
3.  The new-sspx has a similar view towards to the new rites as Indult communities and no longer agrees with the 'common opinion' of Traditional communities.

If you are content with placing your salvation in the hands of an organization which isn't infallible and which is no longer Traditional, then that's your decision.  But don't act like you weren't warned.  And don't act like your decision is based on canon law.  And don't act like your "contentment" to follow the new-sspx will absolve you from the moral consequences of going to doubtful sacraments. 

YOU have the job of saving YOUR soul.  The new-sspx can't save it for you.  I hope you will reconsider the above and pray about the huge, moral problems which positive doubtful sacraments cause.  Your duty to God outweighs your loyalty to the new-sspx.

Änσnymσus

  • Guest
Re: SSPX Fake Priests
« Reply #181 on: August 04, 2025, 12:26:31 PM »
This infiltration of the SSPX with NO priests will bring down this Order.  Other priests won't want to share altars and sacraments with such "priests," the non-priest members of the SSPX - Brothers and Sisters - will find they can't practice their Catholic religion anymore within the SSPX, can't trust the SSPX anymore - and that part of the SSPX may well collapse as those conscientious members leave.  If they try to "end around" what the SSPX so haphazardly now provides, their superiors won't allow it (i.e., going to the True Mass where it is elsewhere supplied, yet still trying to remain with the SSPX).  A great deal of infighting and persecution within the SSPX will be happening (and probably is).

A religious Order is only good if it practices and provides the True Catholic Religion and the orthodox means by which to do it.

Fr. Paul Robinson and the SSPX leadership may not all necessarily intend to do this, but they are helping to destroy what the Archbishop founded. 


Another brilliant subversive move by the Modernist Church.  With the expansion of this one thing, they are infecting a worldwide, coordinated Catholic network that thousands depend upon for the Mass. 



Re: SSPX Fake Priests
« Reply #182 on: August 04, 2025, 01:14:38 PM »
'Positive doubt' is a canonical term applied after a Rite or the administration of a sacrament has been found, by the correct authorities and in accordance to specific guidelines , to be lacking in some essential element to render it possibly invalid. Now you are correct when you state that very significant changes have been made to the episcopal rite of consecration, but has it been established as invalid? No. Has a 'positive doubt' been established? Certainly there are serious reasons to cause one to have doubts - not knowing one way or another - but has a 'Positive doubt' been established?

You make mention of the Anglican Rite that Pope Leo XIII declared to be "absolutely invalid, null, and void" but this has no bearing on the Catholic New Rite as it have not been declared upon. In fact, as we have established, even his Lordship Williamson believed the New Rite to be valid. Why was that? We have also established that His Grace Archbishop Lefebvre only re-ordained when each individual case was investigated on its own merits; not simply because they were ordained in the New Rite. Why was that?

Now along comes Mr. Ladislaus who declares that the SSPX are all modernists because they do not treat the New Rite of Ordinations as invalid as he wants them to. And this is the crux of the matter isn't it? I am a traditional Catholic of the Roman Catholic Church. I am not a member of your personal church. If no 'positive doubt' has been established in the New Rite, if it has not been declared as invalid, then I as a Catholic must be content with this ruling trusting that the SSPX will make the right decision about each individual case as it has always done. It is the same of the New Rite Mass. You have declared it invalid. You have no right or authority to do that. You can think it if you want but you cannot impose that on other Catholics. Out of principle, I would never attend a New Rite Mass, but neither do I condemn a fellow Catholic for going to one. Bishop Williamson was of this mindset too. As I said, if it gives your personal peace of mind to formulate this list of transparency, then go for it, do your best - make sure you get those child abusers on there too. But don't use it as tool to bash the SSPX with. That's your own personal beef and has no place here.


Are they paying you to do this?

Änσnymσus

  • Guest
Re: SSPX Fake Priests
« Reply #183 on: August 04, 2025, 01:20:01 PM »

Positive doubt does not declare anything invalid. 

There are many, many reasons to establish positive doubt.  Go look up what Bishop Tissier said many times, and also go read the article posted from Fr Scott.  All these reasons still exist.

Only the Church can declare it invalid.... All that is required is positive doubt, which is, AS CANON LAW SAYS, is to TREAT IT as invalid. 

..........

A positive doubt doesn't automatically render something invalid; on this we agree.  We also agree that only the Church - the Pope - can declare on a Positive Doubt. No one else can claim this infallibility. Now, I place my trust in the Catholic Church of whose authority the SSPX recognises. As Archbishop Lefebrvre recognised. And the Roman Pontiff has declared the New Rite valid.

St. Avitas in the sixth century, declared, "it is the law of the councils that if any doubt have arisen in matters which regard the state of the Church, we are to have recourse to the chief priest of the Roman Church" (Ep. xxxvi in P.L., LIX, 253).

It is this authority that negates Positive Doubt. And it is because of this authority that His Grace declined to conditionally re-ordain all NO priests coming into or working with the Society. Was he wrong? Or is he to be thrown under the bus as a modernist too? Why did Bishop Williamson believe the New Rite to be valid? We know his Lordship re-ordained but it seems more in pleasing the faithful than personal conviction.

Bishop Tissier and Fr Scott (and others) can believe that there is cause for Positive Doubt within the New Ordination Rite , but they cannot act upon it without the ruling of the Church. Conditional re-ordinations is a serious business with strict regulations and conditions.

"All that is required is positive doubt, which is, AS CANON LAW SAYS, is to TREAT IT as invalid."  Please may I have the full reference from Canon Law to ascertain the context.  


Änσnymσus

  • Guest
Re: SSPX Fake Priests
« Reply #184 on: August 04, 2025, 01:35:42 PM »
Monsignor Byrnes is in Georgia as of a few years ago.