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Author Topic: Proper Punishment for a Disobedient Wife  (Read 65357 times)

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Offline Miseremini

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Re: Proper Punishment for a Disobedient Wife
« Reply #60 on: October 25, 2017, 10:12:31 AM »
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  • Can anyone imagine St. Joseph punishing Mary for being pregnant?  It would have been his right under the law as they were betrothed.  He hadn't been informed yet.

    Could have changed the course of history.  :facepalm:
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]


    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Proper Punishment for a Disobedient Wife
    « Reply #61 on: October 25, 2017, 10:26:49 AM »
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  • Anonymous on October 23, 2017, 11:02:06 PM
    Quote
    Was Jane not the one who died, and he followed up by marrying a second wife with undue haste?
    Also, he didn't love Jane. He fell in love with her younger sister, but married Jane because she was the elder and was still unmarried, so he felt it right and proper for the elder sister to be married first, and he 'took her to wife' instead of the sister he truly loved.
    What is the source for claiming that St. Thomas More did not love his first wife?  I have never come across anything that suggests that.  Here is an article that is consistent with what I have seen elsewhere and says that he loved both of his wives:
    http://englishhistoryauthors.blogspot.ca/2015/12/the-two-wives-of-sir-thomas-more.html


    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Proper Punishment for a Disobedient Wife
    « Reply #62 on: October 25, 2017, 10:38:58 AM »
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  • It is liberal to deny or PRACTICALLY NEGATE the churches teaching on something. Especially so when you use the "modern age" to negate it. God always finds a way for those who love him. A woman who loves God and her husband deeply can still commit mortal sins. If she receives punishment for this, she should THANK the good Lord for such a husband.

    It is also total naivety of so many trads to think that the prideful manipulation of so many trad women is not a serious matter. Depends on the object, of course, but it can lead to very serious consequences especially with relation to the children. (refusing to homeschool is a common one, NFP is another... perhaps we can list going to an SSPX Mass?)

    We are not angels and our reason is hindered. Corporal punishment is Gods merciful way of helping us to be just.
    Man's reasoning ability is often limited by his emotions. Today with improper diets and lack of sleep, inordinate rage is commonplace. A man might judge his wife to be disobedient and lazy when she is simply tired due to allergies, anemia, arthritis, Lyme disease, and/or her pregnancy, when she is uneducated to teach advanced math, science, and the arts due to her lack of any college education, and when she is simply scared at her husband's senseless rage where he strikes her and her children for the smallest and inappropriate reasons. A man might even be jealous that his wife gets to stay home and do the housework, not realizing how much work it entails with the children constantly complaining, crying, and demanding her attention so that she finds it difficult to rest or to pray.
    A man is not like God. He lacks justice.
    Look at the saints. They practiced heroic patience, love, kindness, gentleness, meekness, and humility. Those virtues should be exercised rather than focus on corporal punishment as a kind glance and a loving disposition by a husband will often assist a wife to do overcome her fear of failure and/or immobilizing fear of punishment.
    Do not forget that husbands do kill their wives, especially their pregnant wives, and that pregnancy is a dangerous time for women.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Proper Punishment for a Disobedient Wife
    « Reply #63 on: October 25, 2017, 10:53:02 AM »
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  • Whether or not this may or may not be permitted under some circuмstances, and in strict justice -- the consensus is that it is -- my general observation is that the men who vocally advocate their rights in this regard are in fact insecure in their manhood, often because they struggle with being dominated by women via their own tendency to impurity.  True men needn't resort to corporal punishment but can lead their wives otherwise.  And, for all practical purposes, in all prudence, it would be sinful to practice it in this day and age ... since it would undoubtedly result in the ruination of the family and very likely some jail time for the husband (along with the accompanying loss of employment).  Rarely is the man's motivation love of the woman and the desire to correct and improve her, but it's either cruelty, loss of temper, or a need to beat one's chest in order to feel like a man.  So if you want to go around fantasizing about beating women in order to make yourself feel more like a man, go ahead.  But unless you have a wife who wants to be treated this way, it would be sinful for reasons of prudence and, also, most likely, charity, to engage in this behavior.

    It's usually those who are the least manly who feel the need to put their manliness on display and exert themselves in this manner.  Sorry, but that's the truth.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Proper Punishment for a Disobedient Wife
    « Reply #64 on: October 25, 2017, 10:55:58 AM »
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  • I find it ironic that the ones who are most ardent in advocating the rights of manhood are not manly or courageous enough to de-cloak from their Anonymity.


    Offline Miseremini

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    Re: Proper Punishment for a Disobedient Wife
    « Reply #65 on: October 25, 2017, 11:06:48 AM »
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  • Whether or not this may or may not be permitted under some circuмstances, and in strict justice -- the consensus is that it is -- my general observation is that the men who vocally advocate their rights in this regard are in fact insecure in their manhood, often because they struggle with being dominated by women via their own tendency to impurity.  True men needn't resort to corporal punishment but can lead their wives otherwise.  And, for all practical purposes, in all prudence, it would be sinful to practice it in this day and age ... since it would undoubtedly result in the ruination of the family and very likely some jail time for the husband (along with the accompanying loss of employment).  Rarely is the man's motivation love of the woman and the desire to correct and improve her, but it's either cruelty, loss of temper, or a need to beat one's chest in order to feel like a man.  So if you want to go around fantasizing about beating women in order to make yourself feel more like a man, go ahead.  But unless you have a wife who wants to be treated this way, it would be sinful for reasons of prudence and, also, most likely, charity, to engage in this behavior.

    It's usually those who are the least manly who feel the need to put their manliness on display and exert themselves in this manner.  Sorry, but that's the truth.
    Now here is reason at its finest :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Proper Punishment for a Disobedient Wife
    « Reply #66 on: October 25, 2017, 11:10:10 AM »
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  • Let's say I find my wife committing adultery ... as per the example of St. Thomas.

    So I beat her.  99.999% chance that my motivation was simply anger/rage and a desire to exact vengeance.  .0001% that it'll make the woman less likely to engage in this behavior again.  Actually, 95% chance that it'll make it MORE likely that she'll seek affection and comfort from this other lover in the future.  If love for her husband and her detestation of sin will not prevent her from committing adultery again, then the fear of a beating won't do it either.  It'll just make her more careful not to get caught next time.  And if the woman does not have enough detestation for sin to make her desire not to do this any longer, she probably also does not have sufficient fear of God not to divorce the husband, take custody of the children, and get the husband thrown in jail.  So what has been accomplished?

    In other words, if you have a woman who fears God enough to submit to such treatment in the first place, it's unlikely that a beating will do more to deter her than her remorse for the sin.

    What's most likely to correct her behavior is to immediately give her a hug, forgive her, and just to lovingly ask her not to do it again.  That'll show her an example of God's love and the love of her husband.  It'll most likely result in an INCREASE in her love for her husband, perhaps giving her greater strength to resist such sins in the future ... vs. a beating, which would likely make her have less affection for her husband and the need to find consolation in the arms of another man.

    For crying out loud, how quickly we forget the example given by Our Lord to the adultress who was about to be stoned.  In strict justice, she could / should have been stoned.  Whatever happened to Our Lord's teaching about turning the other cheek and calling us to something higher than the "eye for an eye" justice of the Pharisees.

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Proper Punishment for a Disobedient Wife
    « Reply #67 on: October 25, 2017, 11:16:08 AM »
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  • I was just looking for something funny to say. TBH it is more about avoiding unnecessary hassle. Women should not ultimately be "discussing" this topic because it is not up to them. But there are good women out there so I hold out that they will listen....
    I'm sorry, what was your name again?


    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Proper Punishment for a Disobedient Wife
    « Reply #69 on: October 25, 2017, 11:21:16 AM »
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  • I'm sorry, guys, but my experience is that love and affection are the strongest motivators for women.  If you give them love, affection, and your attention, they'll love you to death and will not stray.  If you give your wife all the love she has a right to, almost without fail "obedience" isn't even a problem.  It's not even a "thing", as it were.  "Husbands, love your wives."  How many men, while blustering about THEIR rights, forget about the right of their wife to be loved.  Wives who are loved like this will simply WANT to do anything they think will please their husbands and there's never a question of having to "force" them to do anything.  You simply tell them what would please you and make you happy ... and they do it.  No need to rage and bluster and beat.  Try it.  You might like that kind of relationship.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Proper Punishment for a Disobedient Wife
    « Reply #70 on: October 25, 2017, 11:26:21 AM »
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  • I'm sorry, guys, but my experience is that love and affection are the strongest motivators for women.  If you give them love, affection, and your attention, they'll love you to death and will not stray.  If you give your wife all the love she has a right to, almost without fail "obedience" isn't even a problem.  It's not even a "thing", as it were.  "Husbands, love your wives."  How many men, while blustering about THEIR rights, forget about the right of their wife to be loved.  Wives who are loved like this will simply WANT to do anything they think will please their husbands and there's never a question of having to "force" them to do anything.  You simply tell them what would please you and make you happy ... and they do it.  No need to rage and bluster and beat.  Try it.  You might like that kind of relationship.
    This post is mine.  Neglected to hit the checkbox.


    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Proper Punishment for a Disobedient Wife
    « Reply #71 on: October 25, 2017, 11:26:58 AM »
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  • With all due, the topic is what again?
    Crud. 

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Proper Punishment for a Disobedient Wife
    « Reply #72 on: October 25, 2017, 11:36:08 AM »
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  • Man's reasoning ability is often limited by his emotions.

    Relevance?

    Today with improper diets and lack of sleep, inordinate rage is commonplace.

    Relevance?

    A man might judge his wife to be disobedient and lazy when she is simply tired due to allergies, anemia, arthritis, Lyme disease, and/or her pregnancy, when she is uneducated to teach advanced math, science, and the arts due to her lack of any college education, and when she is simply scared at her husband's senseless rage where he strikes her and her children for the smallest and inappropriate reasons.

    Relevance? What was the topic again?

    A man might even be jealous that his wife gets to stay home and do the housework, not realizing how much work it entails with the children constantly complaining, crying, and demanding her attention so that she finds it difficult to rest or to pray.

    Relevance? If you've been rashly judged and subject to injustice, then I'm sorry; however, the topic is predicated upon the wife, and not the husband, actually being "the villain" here. 

    A man is not like God. He lacks justice.

    Entirely? Too bad God leaves us hangin' like that, it almost seem unjust. 

    Look at the saints. They practiced heroic patience, love, kindness, gentleness, meekness, and humility. Those virtues should be exercised rather than focus on corporal

    Let's look at the OP again, and see exactly where, when, how or if CORPORAL punishment was mentioned. Regardless, the TOPIC is what again?

    punishment as a kind glance and a loving disposition by a husband will often assist a wife to do overcome her fear of failure and/or immobilizing fear of punishment.

    Do not forget that husbands do kill their wives,

    Seems a bit severe, granted.

    especially their pregnant wives, and that pregnancy is a dangerous time for women.

    Are you "The Real Slim Shady", or perhaps a pregnant woman? This emotional appeal is coming in manipulative and unreadable.

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Proper Punishment for a Disobedient Wife
    « Reply #73 on: October 25, 2017, 11:44:02 AM »
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  • I'm sorry, guys, but my experience is that love and affection are the strongest motivators for women.  If you give them love, affection, and your attention, they'll love you to death and will not stray.  If you give your wife all the love she has a right to, almost without fail "obedience" isn't even a problem.  It's not even a "thing", as it were.  "Husbands, love your wives."  How many men, while blustering about THEIR rights, forget about the right of their wife to be loved.  Wives who are loved like this will simply WANT to do anything they think will please their husbands and there's never a question of having to "force" them to do anything.  You simply tell them what would please you and make you happy ... and they do it.  No need to rage and bluster and beat.  Try it.  You might like that kind of relationship.
    That's nice but, relevance? Why do you assume the form when the form is that which is trying to be determined?

    One principle you and many seem to overlook is that while we can practice a form of anger, we are never to act out of passion.

    But here, let me try to help you try to form your response; "I question the question itself. I think that it is based on a false assumption, namely that wives should be punished by husbands at all."
    Well?

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Proper Punishment for a Disobedient Wife
    « Reply #74 on: October 25, 2017, 12:23:04 PM »
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  • What should the proper punishment be for a disobedient wife?  I'm not talking about one that has committed adultery, but rather one that flouts her husband's authority in other matters.  Should the husband beat her?  Should the husband refuse to permit her to leave the family home?  In a Catholic society, should the courts punish her?
    It seems that the OP who wishes to remain anonymous is not being sincere.


    It also appears that the OP revealed later on that the wife (hypothetical or real, he does not say), does not want to homeschool.


    Beating would be a last resort and would have legal consequences. Back in pagan Roman times, yes, the husband had the power of life or death over his entire household (wife, children, servants, and slaves). Go read ancient history. However, we are under a new law of Christ: Love God, and love thy neighbor as thyself, so would you beat yourself?


    Beating wives, refusing them permission to leave the family home, mandating that they wear veils, and forbidding them from driving a car (leaving the home unattended) is approaching Sharia law -- what the moslems do.  Is the OP a secret Moslem?


    Go to the priest, thou sluggard.