[Minnesota]

Please talk about Traditio in this thread. Thank you

[pnw1994]

Please talk about Traditio in this thread. Thank you

I always thought that Traditio was a bit of a has been website. 

I remember many years ago using their website to scope out Traditional Masses when travelling but then, I started to realize that the list was hopelessly out of date, listing chapels and priests that had closed or died years ago.

As someone said in another thread their idea that the 1962 Mass is “half Novus Ordo” is also peculiar. Deficient in certain aspects sure but “half Novus Ordo”? No way.

in my mind the strangest thing about Traditio is the contributing priest’s strict commitment to anonymity. Maybe it’s just me but Catholicism and anonymity really don’t seem very compatible. It has always made me take their commentary less seriously.

[SimpleMan]

On the plus side, it contains a plethora of valuable traditional Catholic resources, and the directory, while sorely in need of an update here and there, is still one of the best ones out there.  At the very least, it gives you good leads as to where TLMs may be found, but following up via an online search is needed.  In all fairness, that is a huge resource to have to keep updated.

On the minus side, it is overly critical of the 1962 Missal, and "half Novus Ordo" is a gross exaggeration.  The commentaries are a highly selective presentation of the facts.  For instance, the commentaries on St Stanislaus Kostka in St Louis fail to bring out that it is an LGBT-friendly venue, calling it only "traditionally-oriented" or something like that.

The anonymity factor, better not get started on that.  Many have raised that as a concern.

[Ladislaus]

They still have the best directory of Latin Masses out there.  They include SSPX and Motu ... just put an angry frown face emoticon next to those.  Some of their info seems out of date though.  But each individual group has lists, whereas this puts it all in one place in case you're not dogmatically wedded to any particular faction, are traveling, and just need to find a Catholic Mass 

My biggest issue with them is their constant reference to the 1962 Tridentine Mass as "half Novus Ordo" ... which is preposterous.

I think, though, that some of their material might be deliberate hyperbole and comes across as possibly intended to be humorous.

I'm actually thinking we here could do better with a directory, adding detail like whether they're pre-1955, also adding a cross-reference to priests, who they were ordained by, and the theological position of the group they're with.  We could even add Eastern Rite churches.

[Jaynek]

I'm actually thinking we here could do better with a directory, adding detail like whether they're pre-1955, also adding a cross-reference to priests, who they were ordained by, and the theological position of the group they're with.  We could even add Eastern Rite churches.

I like this idea, if Matthew is OK with it and it isn't making more work for him.  I'd like to see a thread of its own for brainstorming on it, so it doesn't get lost here in the Traditio discussion.

[Giovanni Berto]

They have some interesting resources, but their greatest merit is that they are funny.

[Pax Vobis]

1962 - John XXIII: Apostolic Roman Canon of Mass (dogmatically not to be touched) changed

There's a WHOLE host of things about the 1962 missal that people get wrong:

1.  Pius XII ordered and started the process of the 1962 missal.  John23 simply 'approved' the final edition.
2.  The addition of 'St Joseph' to the canon was not part of the John23-approved, original edition.
3.  The addition of 'St Joseph' happened in revised editions, which were approved by liturgical committees.
4.  I'm not even sure if the removal of the 2nd confiteor (and other changes to the daily mass) were part of the original/Pius XII edition.

Conclusion:  The original edition of the 1962 missal is perfectly fine.  It is 100% consistent with all previous, Tridentine missals, going back to Pope St Pius V.

p.s. Obviously the Holy Week changes aren't good, but they don't affect the Mass.  And the changes aren't V2-level sacrilegious or sinful.

[Ladislaus]

I like this idea, if Matthew is OK with it and it isn't making more work for him.  I'd like to see a thread of its own for brainstorming on it, so it doesn't get lost here in the Traditio discussion.

Yeah, and I think we could keep it "live" and updated.  So, for instance, when Father Carley was having health problems and Mass schedule was a mess, as was the priest attending, I posted updates within a thread, but if we had stuff in a central place where designated individuals (those who attend the different chapels) could keep them up to date, I think we'd have a real winner.  Maybe some kind of Wiki page that people could edit (though we'd have to limit it to trusted members so that trolls wouldn't get in there and mess with it).

[Ladislaus]

They have some interesting resources, but their greatest merit is that they are funny.

So, yeah, that's the thing about them (actually, him ... it's one "priest" of unknown and some say dubious Orders), where you can't tell if they're serious or just joking or engaging in hyperbole.  So, for instance, even their "half Novus Ordo" for the 1962 Tridentine Mass they could very well be engaging in conscious hyperbole for the sake of humor.  It's so hard to say.  And perhaps their reference to Traditio Fathers (plural) is also a joke, since I've written "them" before, and I'm pretty sure it's a single "Father".

[SimpleMan]

They still have the best directory of Latin Masses out there.  They include SSPX and Motu ... just put an angry frown face emoticon next to those.  Some of their info seems out of date though.  But each individual group has lists, whereas this puts it all in one place in case you're not dogmatically wedded to any particular faction, are traveling, and just need to find a Catholic Mass

My biggest issue with them is their constant reference to the 1962 Tridentine Mass as "half Novus Ordo" ... which is preposterous.

I think, though, that some of their material might be deliberate hyperbole and comes across as possibly intended to be humorous.

I'm actually thinking we here could do better with a directory, adding detail like whether they're pre-1955, also adding a cross-reference to priests, who they were ordained by, and the theological position of the group they're with.  We could even add Eastern Rite churches.

What you propose would be basically Radko Jansky's directory redux.  It's a good idea.

It was pretty much any Mass that wasn't a Novus Ordo Mass.  It was a valuable resource, typed and photocopied in the days before online Internet publishing.

[Gray2023]

But isn't this site up to date and useful?

https://www.luxvera.org/

Who is in charge of this site?

[Ladislaus]

What you propose would be basically Radko Jansky's directory redux.  It's a good idea.

It was pretty much any Mass that wasn't a Novus Ordo Mass.  It was a valuable resource, typed and photocopied in the days before online Internet publishing.

Yeah, and if we had people here who could keep it updated, it could be up to date.  Might be nice also to have various search features.  Problem with the static guides, especially like Traditio's is that sometimes you are in an area where you could find stuff in different states.  Then you have to look on a map to see how far this place is from where you're at, etc.  So if one could combine it with some Google Maps functionality, and then also some search filters.  Let's say you don't care about Eastern Rite options, or only care about Ukrainian Eastern Rite but won't go to Maronite, etc. ... you could put search filters on and then it would list the results by proximity to a provided location (or using your current location).  That would require more of a web application and database (that could be maintained separately), and then also a database of priests, so that any info about priests might cross-referenced, and then some up-to-date comments like "Mass is cancelled next Sunday because Fathers is sick."

[Ladislaus]

But isn't this site up to date and useful?

https://www.luxvera.org/

Who is in charge of this site?

Not sure.  Looks very similar to the info in Traditio's site.

As mentioned, where I would improve it vs. Traditio is, 1) add Eastern Rite options, 2) more up to date schedule information (based on contributors from individual chapels), 3) search capabilities, with filters, sorting by distance and/or Mass times on specific days(s), including/exclusing specific Masses, including those which could in theory be offered by priests with certain characteristics (i.e. I don't want NO priests not conditionally ordained).

It wouldn't be too difficult to write a web application to do all this ... but the key would be the data, acquiring it and keeping it up to date.

[Matthew]

My biggest issue with them is their constant reference to the 1962 Tridentine Mass as "half Novus Ordo" ... which is preposterous.

This is why I lost so much respect for him and his site. This simply isn't true. Not even open for debate. The 1962 is the exact same Mass as "Fr. Moderator"'s precious Tridentine Mass, only with the addition of St. Joseph to the Canon. (And the removal of 1 Confiteor, but since no 1962 Mass I've ever been to actually removes this Confiteor, I consider this a non-issue)

Adding St. Joseph to the Canon does not make it "half Novus Ordo". Fr. Morrison claiming this makes him sound ignorant, low-IQ, unreasonable, emotional, and hyperbolic.

Claiming the 1962 Missale is a "hybrid Mass" is ridiculous, and makes him look ridiculous and ignorant for saying it.

If he wants to be *funny* he could joke that the 1962 is like adding condiments to a hamburger or something. "+ St. Joseph". That would at least have a basis in truth, if he insists on playing the clown.

[Matthew]

It wouldn't be too difficult to write a web application to do all this ... but the key would be the data, acquiring it and keeping it up to date.

I second this. Writing such an app with geolocation, search, real-time data, etc. would be trivial.
Getting the data, and keeping it up to date, would NOT be trivial. The exact opposite of trivial.

Many good, serious Trad clerics (who see issues with the modern police state -- see COVID 2020) like to keep a low profile. Not just Bp. Z, but also Bishop Trinh. And I bet there are many others. And they really have a point. The government is *not* our friend, and they proved that for the world to see, just 4 years ago. How quickly everyone forgets.

My point: eliminating GOOD lifeboat chapels (who want to keep a low profile, stay "underground" or under the radar) would make the directory much less useful. I don't want or care to visit some Indult location. If I were seeking Masses away from home, I would want to get in touch with priests and bishops like Bp. Z and Bp. Trinh. If I can't do so, then I can't do so.