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Author Topic: Tower of Babel - will the official translation please stand up?  (Read 2437 times)

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Offline Matthew

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  • My God, I believe, I adore, I hope and I love Thee! I beg pardon for those who do not believe, do not adore, do not hope and do not love Thee. Amen.

    My God, I believe, I adore, I hope and I love Thee. I beg pardon for all those that do not believe, do not adore, do not hope and do not love Thee. Amen.

    My God, I believe, I adore, I trust, and I love Thee! I ask pardon for for those who do not believe, do not adore, do not trust and do not love Thee.

    My God, I believe, I adore, I hope and I love Thee! I ask pardon for those who do not believe, do not adore, do not hope and do not love Thee.



    O Most Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, I adore Thee profoundly. I offer Thee the most precious Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ, present in all the tabernacles of the world, in reparation for the outrages, sacrileges and indifference by which He is offended. By the infinite merits of the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart of Mary, I beg the conversion of poor sinners.

    O Most Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Ghost, I adore Thee profoundly. I offer Thee the most precious Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ present in all the tabernacles of the world, in reparation for the outrages, sacrileges and indifferences by which He is offended. By the infinite merits of the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart of Mary I beg the conversion of poor sinners. Amen.

    Most Holy Trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, I adore Thee profoundly. I offer Thee the Most Precious Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ, present in all the tabernacles of the world, in reparation for the outrages, sacrileges, and indifference by which He is offended.  And through the infinite merit of His Most Sacred Heart, and the Immaculate Heart of Mary, I beg of Thee the conversion of poor sinners.

    Most Holy Trinity—Father, Son and Holy Spirit—I adore Thee profoundly. I offer Thee the most precious Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ, present in all the tabernacles of the world, in reparation for the outrages, sacrileges, and indifferences whereby He is offended. And through the infinite merits of His Most Sacred Heart and the Immaculate Heart of Mary, I beg of Thee the conversion of poor sinners.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Tower of Babel - will the official translation please stand up?
    « Reply #1 on: March 14, 2022, 11:03:11 PM »
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  • This is a lot like the St. Michael prayer, and even the "O My Jesus" prayer -- there are many variations in the English versions of the prayer.

    Don't people make *any* effort to go with an established translation, rather than creating a new one of their own? Vainglory much?

    Anyhow, I'm trying to find a popular version of these 2 Fatima prayers from the angel -- any advice on which one is the most popular? Or am I missing the most popular version? I looked all over the Net on the largest/highest cred/most Trad websites to find these.
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    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Tower of Babel - will the official translation please stand up?
    « Reply #2 on: March 14, 2022, 11:57:57 PM »
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  • Someone shared the O My Jesus prayer from the Jacinta book which is apparently an English translation of the original Portuguese:

    "Oh my Jesus, forgive us, save us from the fires of hell, relieve the souls in Purgatory, especially those most abandoned."

    I started using that instead of the mercy one.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Tower of Babel - will the official translation please stand up?
    « Reply #3 on: March 16, 2022, 04:31:58 PM »
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  • No ideas?
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    Offline Emile

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    Re: Tower of Babel - will the official translation please stand up?
    « Reply #4 on: March 16, 2022, 05:11:28 PM »
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  • Quote
    My God, I believe, I adore, I hope and I love Thee! I beg pardon for those who do not believe, do not adore, do not hope and do not love Thee. Amen.

    O Most Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Ghost, I adore Thee profoundly. I offer Thee the most precious Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ, present in all the tabernacles of the world, in reparation for the outrages, sacrileges and indifference by which He Himself is offended. By the infinite merits of the Most Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart of Mary I beg the conversion of poor sinners. Amen.

    FWIW, these^^^ are my preference.

    Because they have never been approved for liturgical use or had any Indulgences attached to them (as far as I could find), there really is no standard translation.
    “It's easy to be a naive idealist. It's easy to be a cynical realist. It's quite another thing to have no illusions and still hold the inner flame.”
     M.-L. von Franz


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Tower of Babel - will the official translation please stand up?
    « Reply #5 on: March 20, 2022, 04:05:10 AM »
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  • I looked these over tonight, and thought back to how I heard them prayed in various groups in the past.
    In other words, which elements sounded the most normal, the most common, the most familiar.
    I also gave it some thought: e.g., there is no plural form of "indifference". And since the prayer is talking about Jesus, it is more natural to say "His Most Sacred Heart" than to say "The Sacred Heart of Jesus" since we were speaking about Jesus in the previous sentences. So it is more natural; it flows and sounds better.
    Since I'm trad, it has to be "Holy Ghost" instead of "Holy Spirit". I know they're the same, but like I said: I'm trad and I want to make that very apparent to all.

    Here is what I came up with:


    My God, I believe, I adore, I hope and I love Thee! I ask pardon for those who do not believe, do not adore, do not hope and do not love Thee.


    O Most Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Ghost, I adore Thee profoundly. I offer Thee the most Precious Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ, present in all the tabernacles of the world, in reparation for the outrages, sacrileges and indifference by which He is offended. And through the infinite merits of His Most Sacred Heart and the Immaculate Heart of Mary, I beg of Thee the conversion of poor sinners. Amen.
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    Offline UMCGB

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    Re: Tower of Babel - will the official translation please stand up?
    « Reply #6 on: March 20, 2022, 09:01:37 AM »
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  • I ask pardon for those who do not believe, do not adore, do not hope and do not love Thee.
    This smells of Novus Ordo. I'd never ask pardon for those who obstinately refuse to believe, adore, hope and love Jesus Christ. We're not obligated to pray for their pardon. We're to pray for their conversion to God, for His greater glory, which would effect their salvation if they die in the state of grace, but if they refuse, let them die ugly for eternity.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Tower of Babel - will the official translation please stand up?
    « Reply #7 on: March 20, 2022, 12:10:24 PM »
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  • This smells of Novus Ordo. I'd never ask pardon for those who obstinately refuse to believe, adore, hope and love Jesus Christ. We're not obligated to pray for their pardon. We're to pray for their conversion to God, for His greater glory, which would effect their salvation if they die in the state of grace, but if they refuse, let them die ugly for eternity.

    That's not what this means.  Those who refuse to [believe, adore, hope ...] cannot be forgiven until they repent.  Let's say your have a brother and he comes by an insults someone.  You might go up to the person and say, "I'm sorry for my brother's behavior."  In a way you're making reparation to the "offendee" rather than the "offender".


    Offline UMCGB

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    Re: Tower of Babel - will the official translation please stand up?
    « Reply #8 on: March 22, 2022, 08:30:42 AM »
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  • That's not what this means. 
    This is what it says, verbatim:

    "I ask pardon for those who do not believe, do not adore, do not hope and do not love Thee."

    Your response sounds like something a Council participant would say to it's critics. It's mental gymnastics. The above quote is clear that the person is asking God to pardon non-believers and persons who refuse to adore and love God, and have no hope in Him. That's essentially asking God to pardon persons guilty of sinning against the Holy Ghost, which we know is impossible.


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Tower of Babel - will the official translation please stand up?
    « Reply #9 on: March 22, 2022, 08:52:09 AM »
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  • That's not what this means.  Those who refuse to [believe, adore, hope ...] cannot be forgiven until they repent.  Let's say your have a brother and he comes by an insults someone.  You might go up to the person and say, "I'm sorry for my brother's behavior."  In a way you're making reparation to the "offendee" rather than the "offender".

    Exactly correct.

    It used to be common for family members, friends, and decent men and women of all stripes to apologize for bad behavior from spouses, family members, etc. -- even if they didn't deserve pardon, strictly speaking. You have compassion on them and don't want to see them thrown out, thrown in jail, etc. so you plead for mercy. 

    The whole POINT of mercy is you're asking for "better than they deserve". If the person hadn't committed some offense/fault, there would be nothing to ask for mercy for!

    Reminds me of the distinction between charity and justice. If you OWE someone money, or they deserve it, then it's justice, not charity. The whole point of charity is that the recipient has *no* claims on your money/goods/time/etc., but you give it to them anyhow.
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    Offline UMCGB

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    Re: Tower of Babel - will the official translation please stand up?
    « Reply #10 on: March 22, 2022, 09:01:52 AM »
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  • It used to be common for family members, friends, and decent men and women of all stripes to apologize for bad behavior from spouses, family members, etc. -- even if they didn't deserve pardon, strictly speaking. You have compassion on them and don't want to see them thrown out, thrown in jail, etc. so you plead for mercy.
    That has nothing to do with the following quote from the prayer: "I ask pardon for those who do not believe, do not adore, do not hope and do not love Thee." The quote is asking pardon of others for a direct rejection of Jesus Christ. It's not for bad behavior towards fellow men. Either admit the prayer is written very poorly or your explanation is a logical fallacy.


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Tower of Babel - will the official translation please stand up?
    « Reply #11 on: March 22, 2022, 09:06:19 AM »
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  • The prayer is not asking pardon for OBSTINATE rejection of God (which only He could know anyways...and also, only He knows if someone has committed the unpardonable offense against the Holy Ghost...none of us could know), it is asking pardon for those who simply reject God in their daily lives (atheists, pagans, Gnostics, apostates).  It perfectly lines up with Our Lady of Fatima’s other request - pray and offer sacrifices for the conversion of sinners. 

    Offline UMCGB

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    Re: Tower of Babel - will the official translation please stand up?
    « Reply #12 on: March 22, 2022, 09:07:48 AM »
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  • The prayer is not asking pardon for OBSTINATE rejection of God (which only He could know anyways...and also, only He knows if someone has committed the unpardonable offense against the Holy Ghost...none of us could know), it is asking pardon for those who simply reject God in their daily lives (atheists, pagans, Gnostics, apostates). 
    You smell like one of those akin to false bishop Barron who teaches the heresy and publicly stated "even atheists of good will can make it to Heaven."

    Offline Romulus

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    Re: Tower of Babel - will the official translation please stand up?
    « Reply #13 on: March 22, 2022, 09:09:18 AM »
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  • You smell like one of those akin to false bishop Barron who teaches the heresy and publicly stated "even atheists of good will can make it to Heaven."
    Ad Hominem

    Offline UMCGB

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    Re: Tower of Babel - will the official translation please stand up?
    « Reply #14 on: March 22, 2022, 09:45:47 AM »
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  • Ad Hominem
    That's not a refutation. Try addressing the points that I made. Thus far, the mentality here is 2+2=5 a la "I ask pardon for those who refuse to believe and hope in, love and adore you, God." = "That only means pardoning those who behave badly towards their fellow men."

    Btw, ad hominems can be true, which is certainly the case here. So again, try actually addressing the points I made; and stop missing the forest for the trees.