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Author Topic: SSPX Referrals for novus ordo priests  (Read 11329 times)

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Offline Plenus Venter

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Re: SSPX Referrals for novus ordo priests
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2023, 04:59:37 AM »
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  • Very true, and it should be pointed out that SSPX priests do not have ordinary jurisdiction. I thought that most trads knew that - but evidently not. The way that supplied jurisdiction works is that a Catholic approaches the priest (who has supplied jurisdiction) for the sacraments. The priest does not approach a stranger (who doesn't attend an SSPX chapel) to administer the sacraments. The SSPX is an easy target these days.
    The jurisdiction is given nonetheless. Someone is approaching the priest on his behalf. Let's not get too legalistic, Meg! The supreme law of the Church is the salvation of souls.

    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: SSPX Referrals for novus ordo priests
    « Reply #16 on: May 24, 2023, 05:33:18 AM »
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  • Has anyone ever called the SSPX asking for a priest to come to give someone Extreme Unction and they instead recommended a local novus ordo priest?

    This just happened yesterday in the case of my calling the SSPX VA Seminary asking for a priest to come to see my father in the hospital.

    I knew that they had been getting more friendly with the local novus ordo priests but this blew my mind.
    I hope your Father is okay AMDGJMJ, I will keep him in my prayers.

    I am really surprised to hear this about Fr MacPherson, I have a lot of time for him, I think he is a really genuine priest. He is right, of course, telling you to get a NO priest in danger of death if no certainly-validly-ordained priest could get to your Father in time to give him certainly valid sacraments. If this were not the case, and yet he made no suggestion to get a Traditional priest to your Father, then that would leave me very disappointed (and surprised) indeed. The only exception I can imagine would be if your Father was not a Traditional Catholic, and had not agreed to see a Trad priest, and the distance for the priest to travel was considerable.

    However, a similar (or worse) thing happened to me some years back when I tried to get an SSPX priest to a Resistance Catholic in the throes of death. The person in question actually went to the SSPX to Mass with me only a month or so earlier. He had been with the SSPX for decades prior to the Resistance. A good, simple soul he was, with no guile. He had been given the Last Rites a few months earlier, but he bounced back, made it out of hospital and was doing quite well, so in the mind of the Church he certainly should have received the Last Rites again. I went to the priory to get the SSPX priest to take him to give the Last Rites, but he refused outright, saying: "I warned you from the pulpit". A couple of hours later the man was dead. May he rest in peace. I wrote to several superiors about the incident. All but one ignored the letter, the one who replied saying: "You should have called the NO priest. Unlike the Resistance, the SSPX considers them to be valid priests". Rather shocking don't you think? Imagine a man drowning at the beach and you go to the lifeguard, and he refuses to go to his aid: "I warned him not to swim outside the flags"! Then you complain to the authorities and they commend the lifeguard and tell you that you should have thrown the drowning victim a piece of string...


    Offline AMDGJMJ

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    Re: SSPX Referrals for novus ordo priests
    « Reply #17 on: May 24, 2023, 06:22:44 AM »
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  • Why didn't you ask a sedevacantist priest to help your father?
    Do you think a sedevacantist priest would have been more willing to go?  

    As far as I am aware of there are not any in the local area.  Father McMahon used to be here to help but is now elsewhere.  Father Collins officiated our wedding but he came down from NY for that and we planned it over 6 months in advance.
    "Jesus, Meek and Humble of Heart, make my heart like unto Thine!"

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    Offline AMDGJMJ

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    Re: SSPX Referrals for novus ordo priests
    « Reply #18 on: May 24, 2023, 06:24:13 AM »
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  • Before vatican 2, parish priests were obliged by canon law to visit their sick parishioners and administer the last rites to the dying, in other words they were bound by justice. Due to the crisis in the Church, traditional priests are not parish priests, they have no jurisdiction obviously, so they aren't bound in justice to visit their sick parishioners, but they're bound by charity; the same would apply to people who aren't their parishioners.
    This was my thought as well.
    "Jesus, Meek and Humble of Heart, make my heart like unto Thine!"

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    Offline AMDGJMJ

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    Re: SSPX Referrals for novus ordo priests
    « Reply #19 on: May 24, 2023, 06:34:14 AM »
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  • I hope your Father is okay AMDGJMJ, I will keep him in my prayers.

    I am really surprised to hear this about Fr MacPherson, I have a lot of time for him, I think he is a really genuine priest. He is right, of course, telling you to get a NO priest in danger of death if no certainly-validly-ordained priest could get to your Father in time to give him certainly valid sacraments. If this were not the case, and yet he made no suggestion to get a Traditional priest to your Father, then that would leave me very disappointed (and surprised) indeed. The only exception I can imagine would be if your Father was not a Traditional Catholic, and had not agreed to see a Trad priest, and the distance for the priest to travel was considerable.

    However, a similar (or worse) thing happened to me some years back when I tried to get an SSPX priest to a Resistance Catholic in the throes of death. The person in question actually went to the SSPX to Mass with me only a month or so earlier. He had been with the SSPX for decades prior to the Resistance. A good, simple soul he was, with no guile. He had been given the Last Rites a few months earlier, but he bounced back, made it out of hospital and was doing quite well, so in the mind of the Church he certainly should have received the Last Rites again. I went to the priory to get the SSPX priest to take him to give the Last Rites, but he refused outright, saying: "I warned you from the pulpit". A couple of hours later the man was dead. May he rest in peace. I wrote to several superiors about the incident. All but one ignored the letter, the one who replied saying: "You should have called the NO priest. Unlike the Resistance, the SSPX considers them to be valid priests". Rather shocking don't you think? Imagine a man drowning at the beach and you go to the lifeguard, and he refuses to go to his aid: "I warned him not to swim outside the flags"! Then you complain to the authorities and they commend the lifeguard and tell you that you should have thrown the drowning victim a piece of string...
    Wow...  That is terrible...  Thank you for sharing your story! 

    My parents allowed us to host the mission chapel here in Front Royal for a few months at their farm for a small fee to make it legal and which we ourselves paid during COVID when our normal chapel (St. Athanasius) was closed down. If we hadn't done that the SSPX chapel here might not have the larger mission chapel they have now...  So, one might think that the SSPX would help at least in return for that.  But no...  Instead they said "We would come if there wasn't a novus priest around to do it. They are valid and in causes of near death even an Eastern Orthodox priest can help." 🤦

    I am just grateful that we managed to get in contact with Father Waters from York, PA.  He dropped everything and left immediately to make the 3 hour drive one way during rush hour traffic. 

    I only I only wish I had thought to call him first instead of taking hours to try and arrange something with the SSPX...  In the future he will be the person I call when someone I know in the area needs a priest.

    "Jesus, Meek and Humble of Heart, make my heart like unto Thine!"

    http://whoshallfindavaliantwoman.blogspot.com/


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX Referrals for novus ordo priests
    « Reply #20 on: May 24, 2023, 07:12:37 AM »
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  • However, a similar (or worse) thing happened to me some years back when I tried to get an SSPX priest to a Resistance Catholic in the throes of death.

    Was this a younger-generation priest, ordained, say within the last 15 years or so?  I've noticed a disgraceful lack of zeal for souls among many of them.  They are more concerned about organizing activities than in saving souls.

    Offline Soubirous

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    Re: SSPX Referrals for novus ordo priests
    « Reply #21 on: May 24, 2023, 08:05:39 AM »
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  • Why didn't you ask a sedevacantist priest to help your father?

    Was this question posed in benevolent sincerity or with some other roundabout aim? If the latter, this isn't the time and place for it. If the former, there are gentler ways to word such a question that would make a well-meaning sentiment clearer to any reader of this forum.
    Let nothing disturb you, let nothing frighten you, all things pass away: God never changes. Patience obtains all things. He who has God finds he lacks nothing; God alone suffices. - St. Teresa of Jesus

    Offline Meg

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    Re: SSPX Referrals for novus ordo priests
    « Reply #22 on: May 24, 2023, 09:18:03 AM »
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  • Do you think a sedevacantist priest would have been more willing to go? 

    As far as I am aware of there are not any in the local area.  Father McMahon used to be here to help but is now elsewhere.  Father Collins officiated our wedding but he came down from NY for that and we planned it over 6 months in advance.

    No, I don't think so. But why complain about the SSPX, when a sedevacantist priest would not be willing either to help your father. You are sedevacantist, correct? 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline Meg

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    Re: SSPX Referrals for novus ordo priests
    « Reply #23 on: May 24, 2023, 09:19:34 AM »
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  • The jurisdiction is given nonetheless. Someone is approaching the priest on his behalf. Let's not get too legalistic, Meg! The supreme law of the Church is the salvation of souls.

    I do not agree. If that seems too legalistic, then so be it. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline CathSarto

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    Re: SSPX Referrals for novus ordo priests
    « Reply #24 on: May 24, 2023, 09:55:18 AM »
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  • Has anyone ever called the SSPX asking for a priest to come to give someone Extreme Unction and they instead recommended a local novus ordo priest?

    This just happened yesterday in the case of my calling the SSPX VA Seminary asking for a priest to come to see my father in the hospital.

    I knew that they had been getting more friendly with the local novus ordo priests but this blew my mind.
    This is very troubling. Only four years ago a priest from the Va seminary came to visit my father, who was a non-practicing novus ordo Catholic, at the hospital upon my request.  He was not in danger of dying, but old and had just had major surgery so I felt it was a crucial time for him to be guided back to the Church before it was too late. 
    My understanding at the time was that you could rely on an SSPX priest to come when called without hesitation or conditions, and that was exactly what occurred. 

    Now the policy seems to have changed, perhaps in reaction to Burbidge (Arlington diocese bishop) making such a big deal about the Society's presence in Front Royal. If this is the case, we are in trouble. Since when does the Society worry about what the novus ordo prelates say about them?  Do they only abide by the rules when called out on them?  

    I think the faithful deserve an explanation of their new policy of deferring to the novus ordo for administering sacraments. And if they do believe that all novus ordo priests and sacraments are valid then they have absolutely no business doing what they are doing.  It completely undermines the state of necessity that was proclaimed by the Archbishop. 

    Offline Meg

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    Re: SSPX Referrals for novus ordo priests
    « Reply #25 on: May 24, 2023, 10:09:55 AM »
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  • I think the faithful deserve an explanation of their new policy of deferring to the novus ordo for administering sacraments. And if they do believe that all novus ordo priests and sacraments are valid then they have absolutely no business doing what they are doing.  It completely undermines the state of necessity that was proclaimed by the Archbishop.

    So the state of necessity has to do with the question of the validity of the sacraments? Is that why +ABL started the SSPX, in your view? Did he really start the SSPX because he believed the NO sacraments to be invalid? 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline Texana

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    Re: SSPX Referrals for novus ordo priests
    « Reply #26 on: May 24, 2023, 10:13:34 AM »
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  • Wow...  That is terrible...  Thank you for sharing your story! 

    My parents allowed us to host the mission chapel here in Front Royal for a few months at their farm for a small fee to make it legal and which we ourselves paid during COVID when our normal chapel (St. Athanasius) was closed down. If we hadn't done that the SSPX chapel here might not have the larger mission chapel they have now...  So, one might think that the SSPX would help at least in return for that.  But no...  Instead they said "We would come if there wasn't a novus priest around to do it. They are valid and in causes of near death even an Eastern Orthodox priest can help." 🤦

    I am just grateful that we managed to get in contact with Father Waters from York, PA.  He dropped everything and left immediately to make the 3 hour drive one way during rush hour traffic. 

    I only I only wish I had thought to call him first instead of taking hours to try and arrange something with the SSPX...  In the future he will be the person I call when someone I know in the area needs a priest.
    Dear AMDGJMJ
    Thank God for Fr. Waters!  He sounds like Fr. James Haynos, ordained by Archbishop Lefebvre, whose sole mission is the salvation of souls.  He visited an older novus ordo couple on his way back to his priory monthly until he was transferred.  Because of the declining health status of the husband, Fr made sure to administer the sacrament of Extreme Unction for him.  The man died shortly after Fr. Haynos left his assignment.  Another man had fallen away from the Church and was very near death.  Fr. Haynos stayed nearby for three days bringing him back to the Faith.  That man received all the sacraments before his death. The joy we could see on Fr.'s face telling us about it showed why he persevered. Being in the presence of a holy priest who is a true missionary of Our Lord is humbling.  We thank God for giving us the many blessings we received learning about our Roman Catholic Faith, and learning what the life of a happy Roman Catholic priest really is like.

    Caring for and taking care of your parents at the end of their lives is a true blessing.  It can be very stressful, very tiring, but it is a unique opportunity to care for them just a little while the way they care for their children for a lifetime.  God bless you and your family--still praying!


    Offline Vanguard

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    Re: SSPX Referrals for novus ordo priests
    « Reply #27 on: May 24, 2023, 01:37:26 PM »
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  • I think the problem with “doubtful orders” is terrible. The SSPX should continue to ordain anyone from the NO. I was in the same boat trying to get a priest to see a dying relatives. I actually have had fantastic success with all of the SSPX priests I have asked. They do want the person to be receptive of their presence, but all of them have responded. Unfortunately, there wasn’t a priest in close proximity to one of my relatives. I even contacted a sedevacantist priest who said no. However, I ended up getting a FSSP priest to help and was grateful for his support. I hope at least my relative was able to ask forgiveness for his sins, even if they were not able to be forgiven by the priest , since he had doubtful orders imo. Please NO priests, try to receive conditional orders if possible. I am sure it won’t hurt, and will actually allow the Church to be healed. 

    Offline AMDGJMJ

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    Re: SSPX Referrals for novus ordo priests
    « Reply #28 on: May 24, 2023, 01:40:02 PM »
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  • No, I don't think so. But why complain about the SSPX, when a sedevacantist priest would not be willing either to help your father. You are sedevacantist, correct?
    If Father Waters had not been able to make it, my next step was going to be to contact Father McMahon from NY who worked with my old confessor Father Collins both of whom are/were sedevacantists.  He has brought the last Sacraments to many people in places where others would not. 

    I know of a specific case in the fast few years where Father McMahon flew down to Florida to give last rites to someone whom the SSPX refused to go see because the person wasn't in their parish (even though only a couple hours away from).  So, in actuality some sedevacantist priests seem to be more willing to go the extra mile to help those dying more than the SSPX.  I did not call him though because he is much further away and wanted to try and have a priest come for whom it might be less inconvenient.

    As to whether I hold the sedevacantist position that is irrelevant.  I was trying to find any surly validly ordained Catholic priest who was willing to help.  I personally believe that the novus ordinations are questionable but apparently the SSPX does not anymore.
    "Jesus, Meek and Humble of Heart, make my heart like unto Thine!"

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    Offline AMDGJMJ

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    Re: SSPX Referrals for novus ordo priests
    « Reply #29 on: May 24, 2023, 01:41:52 PM »
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  • This is very troubling. Only four years ago a priest from the Va seminary came to visit my father, who was a non-practicing novus ordo Catholic, at the hospital upon my request.  He was not in danger of dying, but old and had just had major surgery so I felt it was a crucial time for him to be guided back to the Church before it was too late.
    My understanding at the time was that you could rely on an SSPX priest to come when called without hesitation or conditions, and that was exactly what occurred.

    Now the policy seems to have changed, perhaps in reaction to Burbidge (Arlington diocese bishop) making such a big deal about the Society's presence in Front Royal. If this is the case, we are in trouble. Since when does the Society worry about what the novus ordo prelates say about them?  Do they only abide by the rules when called out on them? 

    I think the faithful deserve an explanation of their new policy of deferring to the novus ordo for administering sacraments. And if they do believe that all novus ordo priests and sacraments are valid then they have absolutely no business doing what they are doing.  It completely undermines the state of necessity that was proclaimed by the Archbishop.
    Well said!
    "Jesus, Meek and Humble of Heart, make my heart like unto Thine!"

    http://whoshallfindavaliantwoman.blogspot.com/