Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => The Sacred: Catholic Liturgy, Chant, Prayers => Topic started by: DigitalLogos on August 17, 2021, 08:23:38 AM
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I'm a bit confused and a little more than shaken. I was listening to a Fr. Hewko sermon and he stated that according to Canon Law sending your kids to public school is an excommunicable offense. He didn't state which canon it was, so I'm not sure where he's referring to.
What are parents to do when they have no options for private Catholic schooling, and aren't fit for homeschooling? I don't have an option for Catholic schooling (that isn't Novus Ordo) and I'm not much of a teacher, and my wife certainly isn't fit for it. So what do I do? I'm basically damned if I do and damned if I don’t.
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I'm a bit confused and a little more than shaken. I was listening to a Fr. Hewko sermon and he stated that according to Canon Law sending your kids to public school is an excommunicable offense. He didn't state which canon it was, so I'm not sure where he's referring to.
What are parents to do when they have no options for private Catholic schooling, and aren't fit for homeschooling? I don't have an option for Catholic schooling (that isn't Novus Ordo) and I'm not much of a teacher, and my wife certainly isn't fit for it. So what do I do? I'm basically damned if I do and damned if I don’t.
Catholics schools are far more dangerous than public schools. Sex Ed in our area was in Catholic schools in 60’s whereas it didn’t reach the public schools until 1980’s.
More atheists and queer’s coming out of the Catholic schools and universities. Communism is just hitting public schools in rural areas.
The biggest problem with children is cell phones, tv, etc. you need to detox the children from that and from any school.
What helped many parents who can’t school children was to join homeschool co op.
And you and your wife are probably better teachers that are now in any school.
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“Catholic children may not attend non-Catholic, neutral, or mixed-schools, that is, those which are open also to non-Catholics, and it pertains exclusively to the Ordinary of the place to decide, in accordance with instructions of the Holy See, under what circuмstances and with what precautions against the danger of perversion, attendance at such schools may be tolerated“
(CIC 1917, § 1374)
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“Catholic children may not attend non-Catholic, neutral, or mixed-schools, that is, those which are open also to non-Catholics, and it pertains exclusively to the Ordinary of the place to decide, in accordance with instructions of the Holy See, under what circuмstances and with what precautions against the danger of perversion, attendance at such schools may be tolerated“
(CIC 1917, § 1374)
When the Catholic schools started to raise tuition that Catholics could not afford while accepting wealthy non Catholics, that rule was broken by Bishops and Catholic schools.
That was a red flag back then.
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1215. Catholic children are to be educated in schools where not only nothing contrary to Catholic faith and morals is taught, but rather in schools where religious and moral training occupy the first place. * * * (Canon 1372.)'
'1216. In every elementary school the children must, according to their age, be instructed in Christian doctrine.
'The young people who attend the higher schools are to receive a deeper religious knowledge, and the bishops shall appoint priests qualified for such work by their learning and piety. (Canon 1373.)'
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When the Catholic schools started to raise tuition that Catholics could not afford while accepting wealthy non Catholics, that rule was broken by Bishops and Catholic schools.
That was a red flag back then.
And now, as you noted, what are called "Catholic schools" today are not such. And the same can be said of so-called "Catholic" bishops and priests. So I wonder if the canon can even be in force if this is the case? It seems to be set on the presumption that there would still be Catholic schools, which there are not.
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I'm a bit confused and a little more than shaken. I was listening to a Fr. Hewko sermon and he stated that according to Canon Law sending your kids to public school is an excommunicable offense. He didn't state which canon it was, so I'm not sure where he's referring to.
What are parents to do when they have no options for private Catholic schooling, and aren't fit for homeschooling? I don't have an option for Catholic schooling (that isn't Novus Ordo) and I'm not much of a teacher, and my wife certainly isn't fit for it. So what do I do? I'm basically damned if I do and damned if I don’t.
I know of a family inside a communist country (Cuba) who had to send their children to the schools, no choices. They said the education was excellent, but of course the indoctrination was poison for the soul. What they would do every day is to ask the children everything they learned and then they taught them the other side and showed them where it was going. In communist schools, they teach the children to report their parents if they see anything which they are taught to look for, it is much worse than the USA. If you must send them to public schools make sure it is a good one education wise (live in a neighborhood that has good schools) and ask your children every day what they were taught that conflicts with what they have lived with you. To do that, the parents have to really live the faith, or else the children will see that it is all just talk and they will follow their teachers, who really do have conviction.
If it sounds difficult, keep in mind that it is enormously easier than what other Catholic parents are having to do by homeschooling or moving to another state with a trad school.
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I know of a family inside a communist country (Cuba) who had to send their children to the schools, no choices. They said the education was excellent, but of course the indoctrination was poison for the soul. What they would do every day is to ask the children everything they learned and then they taught them the other side and showed them where it was going. In communist schools, they teach the children to report their parents if they see anything which they are taught to look for, it is much worse than the USA. If you must send them to public schools make sure it is a good one education wise (live in a neighborhood that has good schools) and ask your children every day what they were taught that conflicts with what they have lived with you. To do that, the parents have to really live the faith, or else the children will see that it is all just talk and they will follow their teachers, who really do have conviction.
If it sounds difficult, keep in mind that it is enormously easier than what other Catholic parents are having to do by homeschooling or moving to another state with a trad school.
This is good advice, thank you. I was already going to be watching over what they were learning regardless, so it's good to know that there's a precedent for it, at least anecdotally. The schools in my town aren't overtly teaching the horrors of CRT or LGBT nonsense. But I can counter those easily with my kids when it comes to it, even evolution when that comes up.
I think the most difficult thing would be what VCR noted about media, plus the influence of school friends. Which I would have to monitor, and already do monitor.
I know God never asks the impossible, it's just that the world has been pulling out all of the stops lately.
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“If you want your children to fight for their faith, send them to public school. If you want them to lose their faith, send them to Catholic school - Fulton sheen
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1215. Catholic children are to be educated in schools where not only nothing contrary to Catholic faith and morals is taught, but rather in schools where religious and moral training occupy the first place. * * * (Canon 1372.)'
'1216. In every elementary school the children must, according to their age, be instructed in Christian doctrine.
'The young people who attend the higher schools are to receive a deeper religious knowledge, and the bishops shall appoint priests qualified for such work by their learning and piety. (Canon 1373.)'
I'm still not seeing the part about excommunication. Just curious about why Fr. Hewko made that particular statement.
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“If you want your children to fight for their faith, send them to public school. If you want them to lose their faith, send them to Catholic school - Fulton sheen
Was this before Sheen embraced the Novus Ordo or after?
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I'm still not seeing the part about excommunication. Just curious about why Fr. Hewko made that particular statement.
He makes the statement around 7:55-8:05 in this sermon:
https://youtu.be/9Bx_d44paDI
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“If you want your children to fight for their faith, send them to public school. If you want them to lose their faith, send them to Catholic school - Fulton sheen
I suggest that you verify if and when Fulton Sheen said that, because it does not sound right, unless he repented on his deathbed.
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I'm still not seeing the part about excommunication. Just curious about why Fr. Hewko made that particular statement.
https://books.google.com/books?id=O7kFAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA483&lpg=PA483&dq=Catholic+children+may+not+attend+non-Catholic,+neutral,+or+mixed-schools,+that+is,+those+which+are+open+also+to+non-Catholics,+and+it+pertains+exclusively+to+the+Ordinary+of+the+place+to+decide,+in+accordance+with+instructions+%22excommunication%22&source=bl&ots=3DIpigt9Kz&sig=ACfU3U0QaOo3Y4-4Sd_hxqgTW2a61v2vGg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiFkILNq7jyAhWAAp0JHQg9CU8Q6AF6BAgLEAI#v=onepage&q&f=true (https://books.google.com/books?id=O7kFAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA483&lpg=PA483&dq=Catholic+children+may+not+attend+non-Catholic,+neutral,+or+mixed-schools,+that+is,+those+which+are+open+also+to+non-Catholics,+and+it+pertains+exclusively+to+the+Ordinary+of+the+place+to+decide,+in+accordance+with+instructions+%22excommunication%22&source=bl&ots=3DIpigt9Kz&sig=ACfU3U0QaOo3Y4-4Sd_hxqgTW2a61v2vGg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiFkILNq7jyAhWAAp0JHQg9CU8Q6AF6BAgLEAI#v=onepage&q&f=true)
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“If you want your children to fight for their faith, send them to public school. If you want them to lose their faith, send them to Catholic school - Fulton sheen
He never said that.
It’s not any better, but this is what he said:
“I recommend that my relatives send their college-bound children to secular colleges where they will have to fight for their faith, rather than to Catholic colleges where it will be stolen from them.”
https://www.crisismagazine.com/1987/the-catholic-college-death-judgment-resurrection (https://www.crisismagazine.com/1987/the-catholic-college-death-judgment-resurrection)
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I'm a bit confused and a little more than shaken. I was listening to a Fr. Hewko sermon and he stated that according to Canon Law sending your kids to public school is an excommunicable offense. He didn't state which canon it was, so I'm not sure where he's referring to.
What are parents to do when they have no options for private Catholic schooling, and aren't fit for homeschooling? I don't have an option for Catholic schooling (that isn't Novus Ordo) and I'm not much of a teacher, and my wife certainly isn't fit for it. So what do I do? I'm basically damned if I do and damned if I don’t.
He might have had in mind Divini illius magistri (1929, Pius XI), though I don't believe it called for excommunication:
https://www.vatican.va/content/pius-xi/en/encyclicals/docuмents/hf_p-xi_enc_31121929_divini-illius-magistri.html
I'd have to check my trusty Woywod/Smith 1917 CIC commentary, though it's over at the bungalow, and I've got a lot going on today (as usual). I'll check it out when I can.
I have a vague memory of my godmother's parents, before V2, having been threatened in some way when they sent her one year to the public high school. I don't recall for sure whether excommunication was invoked, but I seem to recall it was. They promptly put her back in Catholic school. People did what they were told back then. People still cared about their souls.
Not to "pull rank", but I have a bachelor's and two master's, I'm a Mensa member (though inactive, their activities are largely useless wastes of time), I think I'm certainly fit to homeschool. I remind my son frequently that ours is a Catholic school, our prime task is to save our souls and to learn the good, the true, and the beautiful. While we teach comprehensively (the state forces this), I remind my son that, no, it won't matter ten trillion years from now, whether you learned calculus or physics, but it most certainly will matter whether you learned to know, love, and serve God in this life, and thereby be happy with Him forever in the next life.
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DL you are more than qualified to homeschool.
It's not hard at all.
You will be spending about the same amount of time helping them with their homework as you would homeschooling them.
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I'm a bit confused and a little more than shaken. I was listening to a Fr. Hewko sermon and he stated that according to Canon Law sending your kids to public school is an excommunicable offense. He didn't state which canon it was, so I'm not sure where he's referring to.
What are parents to do when they have no options for private Catholic schooling, and aren't fit for homeschooling? I don't have an option for Catholic schooling (that isn't Novus Ordo) and I'm not much of a teacher, and my wife certainly isn't fit for it. So what do I do? I'm basically damned if I do and damned if I don’t.
I don't know if it's in Canon Law, but morally speaking it's COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE to turn your kids over to the public Government schools for indoctrination.
They learn about sodomy, masturbation, transsɛҳuąƖism, LGBT, "white people are the devil", BLM, Critical Race theory --and that's before 2nd grade. This is 2021, not 1985. The world has changed since GenX went to school in the 80's and early 90's. And those horrible things I listed? That's in rural conservative areas. The big cities are much worse! I'm only half-joking here. My point is: it's not just abuses in a few highly liberal places where garbage like this is poured into childrens' minds. It's literally EVERYWHERE. North Dakota. Texas. Red states. Blue states. Rural/urban. Doesn't matter.
Do you know the average age kids first see pornography? Age 9. Listen to a few podcasts by Jonathon Van Maren for a real eye-opener on this heading. It's the truth. You can deny it if you like, but that doesn't invalidate it. Unless your children are sheltered, they WILL be exposed to porno at a young age. And the worst kind of porno too! Not simply playboy and 70's era soft porn. Not just the lingerie section of the Sears catalog. We're talking gangbanging, inter-racial, degrading, perverted stuff that can't even be named. AT AGE NINE. In ALL public schools nationwide.
I don't see how mortal sin could be avoided, sending children into certain loss of Faith like that. How could Trads do that? Why did they leave the Novus Ordo, only to sign up their children in the devil's own schools? Insanity.
Better for your children to be uneducated, with a literal 2nd grade education, than to lose their souls in modern-day public schools. Janitors can save their souls, you know.
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Alright. So it's potentially gravely offensive to God if I send them to public school. I ask this because my wife has my daughter all ready to go to pre-K in a couple weeks after unsuccessfully trying to convince her we should homeschool. To reiterate: my wife is non-Catholic, so her argument is always "I don't want them to be weird".
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I don't know if it's in Canon Law, but morally speaking it's COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE to turn your kids over to the public Government schools for indoctrination.
They learn about sodomy, masturbation, transsɛҳuąƖism, LGBT, "white people are the devil", BLM, Critical Race theory --and that's before 2nd grade. This is 2021, not 1985. The world has changed since GenX went to school in the 80's and early 90's. And those horrible things I listed? That's in rural conservative areas. The big cities are much worse! I'm only half-joking here. My point is: it's not just abuses in a few highly liberal places where garbage like this is poured into childrens' minds. It's literally EVERYWHERE. North Dakota. Texas. Red states. Blue states. Rural/urban. Doesn't matter.
Do you know the average age kids first see pornography? Age 9. Listen to a few podcasts by Jonathon Van Maren for a real eye-opener on this heading. It's the truth. You can deny it if you like, but that doesn't invalidate it. Unless your children are sheltered, they WILL be exposed to porno at a young age. And the worst kind of porno too! Not simply playboy and 70's era soft porn. Not just the lingerie section of the Sears catalog. We're talking gangbanging, inter-racial, degrading, perverted stuff that can't even be named. AT AGE NINE. In ALL public schools nationwide.
I don't see how mortal sin could be avoided, sending children into certain loss of Faith like that. How could Trads do that? Why did they leave the Novus Ordo, only to sign up their children in the devil's own schools? Insanity.
Better for your children to be uneducated, with a literal 2nd grade education, than to lose their souls in modern-day public schools. Janitors can save their souls, you know.
My son has never attended public school, and as long as I have a breath of life in me, he will never attend the government-run schools. My attorney obtained for me, as part of our divorce settlement, ultimate decision-making authority, with ability to trump my wife's wishes to the contrary, and that is something that NO still-legally-married father EVER has. I used this authority to prevent my son from being prescribed ADD dope, the school strongly recommended it (they routinely seek to "medicate the boy out of" their more challenging male pupils), my wife was all in favor, but I said no way.
At the high school my son would attend, if I were "out of the picture" and his mother and her illicit consort had full custody, there was a cryptically reported news story not long ago, about a young boy who was sɛҳuąƖly assaulted by a group of male peers. While it was not rape per se --- the news reports disclosed that much --- it was a type of gross sɛҳuąƖ imposition, I have a pretty good idea what it was, but decency prevents me from discussing it in more detail. She'd be perfectly okay with him attending such a school, in the name of "socialization" and being part of the "collective". I would not be. That's one reason I drive defensively with maximum attention, and have my health carefully monitored by my doctor. I cannot die until he attains majority, and God willing, for a long time past that. I want to be a crusty old GrandDad doting on his babies. Nil sine numine.
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We home schooled. And we can say, when you get the curriculum for home schooling, EVERYONE learns, it is for everyone! In fact sometimes the kids teach the parents.
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I don't know if it's in Canon Law, but morally speaking it's COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE to turn your kids over to the public Government schools for indoctrination.
They learn about sodomy, masturbation, transsɛҳuąƖism, LGBT, "white people are the devil", BLM, Critical Race theory --and that's before 2nd grade. This is 2021, not 1985. The world has changed since GenX went to school in the 80's and early 90's. And those horrible things I listed? That's in rural conservative areas. The big cities are much worse! I'm only half-joking here. My point is: it's not just abuses in a few highly liberal places where garbage like this is poured into childrens' minds. It's literally EVERYWHERE. North Dakota. Texas. Red states. Blue states. Rural/urban. Doesn't matter.
Do you know the average age kids first see pornography? Age 9. Listen to a few podcasts by Jonathon Van Maren for a real eye-opener on this heading. It's the truth. You can deny it if you like, but that doesn't invalidate it. Unless your children are sheltered, they WILL be exposed to porno at a young age. And the worst kind of porno too! Not simply playboy and 70's era soft porn. Not just the lingerie section of the Sears catalog. We're talking gangbanging, inter-racial, degrading, perverted stuff that can't even be named. AT AGE NINE. In ALL public schools nationwide.
I don't see how mortal sin could be avoided, sending children into certain loss of Faith like that. How could Trads do that? Why did they leave the Novus Ordo, only to sign up their children in the devil's own schools? Insanity.
Better for your children to be uneducated, with a literal 2nd grade education, than to lose their souls in modern-day public schools. Janitors can save their souls, you know.
Matthew, this is where respectfully, you’re being a little hyperbolic. Especially when not every family has the luxury that you have of homeschooling.
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We home schooled. And we can say, when you get the curriculum for home schooling, EVERYONE learns, it is for everyone! In fact sometimes the kids teach the parents.
Yeah, I've seen some good Catholic Curriculum that I've wanted to look into. My big hurdle, if/when I homeschool, is motivating myself to follow through with it. I tend to be pretty worn down since I'm not home until close to midnight during the week. And, I don't want to make her out to be a scapegoat, but, I know my wife will not follow through with it much at all.
Yet on the other hand, the biggest motivator is, obviously, that they aren't indoctrinated into Leftism and the preservation of their innocence (again, which is incredibly difficult given I am the only practicing Catholic in my own family, as well as among relatives).
The one positive I will note is that both of my kids are very eager about the Faith (they're 3 and 4). They often get me to do their "prays" in the mornings so I'm not procrastinating. So thanks be to God for that.
I again want to thank everyone who has offered advice and clarification on this so far. I'm coming to find that my situation is becoming more and more difficult as time moves on, given the state of everything at work, home, and in the wider culture.
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There is a common misconception that homeschooling is ‘school at home’. Meaning a parent must duplicate the typical classroom at home. It doesn’t have to be done that way.
I was unschooled starting from 4th grade. My mother pulled me out of a Novus Ordo Catholic grade school after I finished 3rd grade. She was mostly hands off, so I wound up being mostly self taught. I love to read and write, math never being an interest of mine, I at least know the basics.
I read mostly fiction until my early 20’s then that all changed when I starting reading different Saint biographies. I had a conversion back to the Faith (of which it was getting colder) and then a few years later by the grace of God I found Tradition.
I had my eldest son in a Novus Ordo Catholic school and pulled him out, started homeschooling and the rest is history. Now in his early 20’s, he is a very intelligent and articulate young man, and best of all he still has the Catholic Faith. My younger children have only ever been homeschooled. They are all very intelligent and have interests in many subjects outside of what you’d find in a typical classroom setting.
It makes me sad to meet neighborhood kids that want to play with them and you can tell they have no substance there. Very aloof and somewhat robotic. Much of it may be the public schools in the area here in the South, but still I can see the difference in my own children and public school children. Mostly because these young ones are also lacking The Church and The Sacraments and from what I’ve seen of many parents here they are self centered ego maniacs that let their children spiritually and emotionally rot in other people’s care while they work all day and party all night. These are the children ours would be attending school with. Imbibing their values on a daily basis at lunch and recess. I regret my eldest had to endure that the few years he was in school.
Take heart those with children still in schools. I prayed every morning with my son as we drove to drop him off, the Saint Michael prayer. I told my son that St Michael would be with him and he said, ‘he’d be floating above the school watching over everyone’. A sweet memory we have from that time.
Also, for those interested check into ‘Deschooling’ and ‘Unschooling’. Unschooling has a bad rap of being unstructured when it can be done in a structured way. Relaxed homeschool is another term for that too.
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Better for your children to be uneducated, with a literal 2nd grade education, than to lose their souls in modern-day public schools. Janitors can save their souls, you know.
^This^
Also to add, with daily reading of Scripture, Bible History and Catechism, if you only focused your studies on God and The Catholic Church, a child would far surpass a ‘2nd grade education’ easily.
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Is it OK for a Catholic to teach in a public school?
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Great post Carissima. You have to think outside the box!
When we homeschooled we belonged to a HSing group and there was no other Catholics among the group. It was years before we met any Cathlic HSers. There was greatly variety in methods and philosopies - one of those being unschooling. Unschooling is not uneducated. The most impressive thing about HSed children is that they are relaxed and spontaneous in social situations. I met up recently with one mother who unschooled and she told me her "child" was now a classical concert violinist in Germany.
As for ourselves, we belonged to an organisation which gave hospitality to foreign travellers (tourists) and we would have on average one visit a month from one or a couple and sometimes a small group for 2 or 3 nights. Once we had a Japanese guy who stayed a month and taught our children drawing and Japanese. We had Germans, Americans, British, Italians, Spanish, Danish, Japanese, French, Israelis, Aussies, etc etc. It was a great way for our children to experience the world. There are as many ways to educate your children as there are families.
We did not unschool ourselves. Every day started out with my husband and the Gospels. I did most of the other teaching, but because we lived in a place we had to pump our own water and produce our own power, our children learned many practical things which are essential to a good life.
Our children would not dream of sending their own children to school!
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I'm offering prayers for you and your wife, DL.
Such a difficult situation you are in.
Has your wife met many homeschoolers? My husband was opposed until he met some of the excellent children.
Also, keep in mind that schools will soon enough mandate the shot and frequent "testing".
Not only that, but there are notices around the country that the school can and will send the child to a quarantine camp (medical kidnapping) if someone in the home has tested positive.
It's common to think that school at home must take many hours a day since that is what the "real schools" do. However, the "real schools" waste hours and hours of time on stupid and meaningless activities.
I once saw advertisements for an elite preschool in New York which fed into the "right schools" which is soooo important if you want your kid to go to Ivy League. It cost tens of thousands a year. They boasted small student to teacher ratio, big comfy chairs for reading books, cooking activities, etc.
Hmmmm.... sounds kind of like home to me. ;)
Preschool and Kindergarten should take no longer than an hour a day for phonics/reading and math if that.
Read aloud time each day and listening to books on tape is golden.
Historically children would receive tutors into their home for learning until they went to university at age 16.
Assignments are given and reviewed when the tutor returns. It's not time consuming at all.
In trad parishes there are young homeschooled teens and young adults or parents even you can hire for a few hours a week to visit your home and tutor your children.
There are many, many tutors available for zoom learning online.
There are many computer programs and games as well.
Many, many ways to skin to this cat!
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Yeah, I've seen some good Catholic Curriculum that I've wanted to look into. My big hurdle, if/when I homeschool, is motivating myself to follow through with it. I tend to be pretty worn down since I'm not home until close to midnight during the week. And, I don't want to make her out to be a scapegoat, but, I know my wife will not follow through with it much at all.
Yet on the other hand, the biggest motivator is, obviously, that they aren't indoctrinated into Leftism and the preservation of their innocence (again, which is incredibly difficult given I am the only practicing Catholic in my own family, as well as among relatives).
The one positive I will note is that both of my kids are very eager about the Faith (they're 3 and 4). They often get me to do their "prays" in the mornings so I'm not procrastinating. So thanks be to God for that.
I again want to thank everyone who has offered advice and clarification on this so far. I'm coming to find that my situation is becoming more and more difficult as time moves on, given the state of everything at work, home, and in the wider culture.
We used olvs.org
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Oh, just one more thing to consider...
Has your wife ever met weird kids who go to school?
Yep. There are weird kids everywhere. :P
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Alright. So it's potentially gravely offensive to God if I send them to public school. I ask this because my wife has my daughter all ready to go to pre-K in a couple weeks after unsuccessfully trying to convince her we should homeschool. To reiterate: my wife is non-Catholic, so her argument is always "I don't want them to be weird".
Pre-k is just state funded day care, at that age you only need to teach a little bit of basic things if at all. I would tell her no to the pre-k and lets reevaluate together for your children's' future; and convince her of what needs to be done in your household.
I understand she is non Catholic but you need to get on the same page with major issues like this. Under Canon Law you are even allowed to get seperated for the refusal of Catholic education by one of the parents. Canon 1132
A commentary on the new Code of the canon law (all volumes) : Dom Charles Augustine Bachofen, O.S.B., D.D., 1872- : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive (https://archive.org/details/1917CodeOfCanonLawCommentary/page/n2805/mode/2up?q=public+schools) Right click and open in new tab if it does not open. Look at Canon 1374 it describes in part your situation.
In short Fr Hewko is wrong, Fr Bachofen says that parents who send their child to public school for no reason or they have an alternative, they will not be absolved. It doesn't say excommunicated and that is only for parents who have other options.
In your situation from reading the different canons on this topic I think a pre-Vatican 2 priest or Bishop would say you can send them there as long as the church instructs them thoroughly of the faith outside of school. But on the other hand the public schools back then were not havens of filth and teachers of communism which is a danger to the Faith, Matthew is right no school is better than a modern public school. They will without a doubt be exposed to grave sin, immoral vices, immoral speech, atheism, hatred of parents; you would be putting them at a great risk of losing their soul.
Is it worth it? To not have a yelling match with your wife? Even if you have to do all the schooling I think that is the only option. As I told you in a previous thread, you are the head of the household; put your foot down and tell her that your children will be homeschooled in the Catholic faith and there is no alternative.
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I know this may not apply to those with younger grade school children, but where we are in the South we see in the news often that a local school will have a teacher or coach getting busted for statutory rape with one or more of their students.
An acquaintance of mine who is a retired school teacher for our district told me years ago that teachers she worked with were frequently having sex with their students and that it was a common thing. She complimented my children and their behavior frequently, thanked me for homeschooling them more than once, and said she would not recommend public schools anymore. I was horrified and saddened to hear about these things going on at schools, but grateful for her honesty. I never attended a high school, but I guess it’s possible this may have been going on at our schools in California too? Thankfully though if it was I was spared that nasty gossip as a Catholic teen growing up.
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Worthwhile read on the subject of public school education by Fr. Muller:
https://archive.org/details/publicschooleduc01ml/page/n6/mode/1up
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Oh, just one more thing to consider...
Has your wife ever met weird kids who go to school?
Yep. There are weird kids everywhere. :P
I was a weird kid who went to public schools mostly in a very large city in an extremely liberal state. I went to undergrad college in a very rural and conservative area of that same state. There, I encountered the same communist trash as I’d been given in middle and high school in the city. I went to three different grad schools, one rural, but uber liberal, in a different, normally conservative state, and two unis back in the same city, same state as grammar and high school. The entire Masonic, communist, Soviet modeled plans of Dewey entirely backfired with me!
I put this up to the moral standards exemplified (not preached or even so much verbalized) by my poorly catechized (no fault if their own), but believing, praying, and sacrificing parents and three of four grandparents. Also, to about seven couples with whom my parents were close friends in my earliest years, before age seven. Some of these weren’t Catholic, but held to very Catholic moral standards. A few of these friendships endured through my growing up years, and two couples are still living and in touch, all in their late 90s, and one turning 100, God willing, on Sept. 11. (Yes, what a birthdate!)
Don’t think because I went to school in the 1960s and 1970s, that I wasn’t exposed to filth. In grade seven at age 12, I learned about being “gαy” from my history teacher. All twelve of us in his advanced placement class learned that the guy in the photo on his desk was not his brother. A dirty minded boy in fourth grade instructed a number of his peers how boys can have fun by themselves. Word got around to even the girls. Then a girl in grade six told a few friends that girls can do it, too. These were all kids from “good” families. Smoking cigarettes appeared in grade four, drinking the same year, and marijuana in grade six. By grade seven, there was little to nothing I hadn’t at least heard of, although it wouldn’t be until the later years of high school that I knew people who did these sort of things, or, at least, were rumored to have done them. In college, forget it! I knew people who admitted either slightly embarrassedly or proudly to being perverts, addicts, criminals.
I knew from the fourth grade that the sex stuff was disgusting, nasty, unnatural behavior. As for cigarettes and beer drinking, it was bad for your health, especially for children, that it could be harmful, so was only for adults. The kids who smoked and drank usually did so to excess, were otherwise rebellious, stupid, rude, doing those other things, and if not stupid in class, were leading double lives. My Catholic grandmother said, “It always pays to keep a clean slate with God.” And my nonCatholic grandmother taught me Catholic night prayers, in English and Polish. She lead me to dedicate myself to Mary decades before she formally converted at age 85! (She was baptized Lutheran at her stepfather’s insistence at age 14. There was no record of Catholic baptism found, although she probably WAS baptized Catholic as a baby. She went to a Lutheran church from about age seven until shortly after her Lutheran baptism, then, by a means too strange to go into, went to the Catholic Church.)
Yes, I was weird, not because I was so religious—I wasn’t, but because I was a true non-conformist in an era when it was popular to be what the culture (falsely) called non-conformist. You were supposed to show your non-conformity by conforming. This meant being anti-Vietnam War, anti-establishment, anti-anything or anyone over age 30, wearing faded, ripped, walked on jeans, (At least in those days, you yourself wore them out, unlike today when people shell out ridiculous sums to buy a heap of rags made in China!). You were supposed to have unrestrained sex, drugs, gyrate to certain rock music and drop acid to other rock music, be half naked in public, eschew the bathtub and shower, live off panhandling, busking, your hopelessly uptight parents, the government you claimed to hate. Getting a job or education was for losers. Later, it was many of these very same people who reenrolled in college, took over the universities, and now rule like the tyrants it was planned for them to become.
I began to read starting the end of first grade, the old looking books in the school library, children’s books from the 1920s, 30s, and 40s. I became aware that life was different when my parents and grandparents were growing up. It was fascinating. By grade three I began to read old magazines in my grandmother’s closet; to see the photos, the advertising, to pick up by osmosis, the values and mores of decades past. By grade four I was reading, or at least trying, to read history. I also gained access to a treasure trove of old school books from the mid 1800s to some used by my parents in the 1920s and 1930s. The old literature was so much better than the trite and drivel in my reading books at school. Although I was in the “high” reading group, whatever they named it, (such a joke! Every kid in school knew which was the high group for smart kids, the medium group for average kids and the low group for the dumb kids.), the books were too easy and the stories boring. I discovered my parents and grandparents could recite from memory, pages long poems from their readers. Not wanting to be outdone, I began memorizing those poems, myself. When I inquired of my teachers about learning poems, I was either dismissed or laughed at. In grade eight it was explained to me that memorization was a low form of intellect, just a step above physical reaction, of no use in the modern world!
By high school, I was entirely weird. I wore what today would be called “retro” clothing, if in the mood, or else I dressed as an office or legal professional. It was the early 70s so maxi dresses and the country look was coming in, so a few kids sometimes complimented me, secretly. A few of the non teaching staff complimented me if I dressed professionally. My peers and even some teachers made fun of me or gave really snide, sarcastic remarks. What I discovered was that when in public on the street, in stores, in the library, the bus, the subway, people treated me as an adult, not as a teenaged kid still in high school. I volunteered at a library program reading stories and doing simple crafts with preschoolers and at a nursing home, bringing a cart of magazines, puzzles, playing cards, goody bags containing items like chapstick, candies, two or three loose cigarettes(!), hand cream, plastic ruler/bookmarker/magnifiers, mini note pads and pencils/pens to the residents and just generally chatting in the day room or in individual rooms with the bedridden. There, I was often taken for an adult. Several times, I did the preschool program on my own when the charge person didn’t come in, until it was discovered that I was only 15 and illegal to leave me in charge! There were quite a few elderly men who were WWI veterans at the home, and listening to the stories of those who cared to tell them, (some clearly did not) was fascinating. Any, “when I was a boy, girl, just married” type of story interested me.
By the time I went to college, I was quite entirely a misfit with my peer group and with most of my professors, recently promoted, young, liberal. I preferred the old ones just about to retire. Their classes were more challenging, more informative, their life experiences reflected wisdom more than bravado and rebellion. They had knowledge and common sense. I encountered none that gave good grades in exchange for sex, or used profanity, emotional hype, or who appeared downtown bar hopping and at fraternity or sorority beer bashes, indistinguishable from the students, drop-outs, and hangers-on that are found in most college towns. There was one exception, an English professor in his late 50s, early 60s, who wore hippie attire, ala, 1967 San Francisco, in 1971 New York, tried to talk and act cool, groovy, refer to drugs as if he did them. He fooled nobody. There was a high school home ec. teacher like that, only not as extreme. She was in her 50s and had a wrinkled neck and knees. How did we know? She wore low cut tops and mini skirts. Sorry, not appealing even to those without morals! (Kind of like today’s 350 lb. women who prance around in more tattoos than spandex! I once heard an SSPX priest refer to such behavior as a mortal sin of hatred. He didn’t think there were any men for whom the sight would tempt to impurity, rather, to murder!).
If exercising common sense, having a sound mind, enjoying good literature, good art and music, and being knowledgeable of real history is weird, who wouldn’t want to be weird? Who wouldn’t want their children to be weird? In fact, the weirder the better! Train them right, teach them right, instill the Faith and corresponding morals, be sure to pray, do penance, and make sacrifices. Most importantly, dedicate them to Our Lady! Even if, God forbid, sin is dumped upon them, they will be protected in God’s timing.
I grew up basically knowing next to nothing of the Faith. I went to the novus ordo because my father required it of those living under his roof. He knew nothing of the old Mass still being available. After that, I spent decades trying out Protestantisms of nearly every kind except snake handlers. It never occurred to me that the Catholic religion had the Truth. It was kept from me that the Latin Mass still existed. Through no fault of my own, or of my parents, my catechesis was virtually nonexistent and that which I did receive, no different than the trite and drivel in my school books. I first heard of tradition in 2005. In the space of one week, I went from identifying myself as Christian without a church to Traditional Catholic.
And I’m still weird, even among Traditional Catholics because of my life’s path. I fit no recognized category. I’m not a revert, not a convert, never lived a licentious lifestyle from which I was rescued, (I’m not claiming holiness, either! I had to go on a retreat and make a general confession over several days.) Was never a convinced heretic because no Protestant church satisfied. If a heretic, a material heretic through ignorance and weakness of intellect.
So I’m still weird. Please pray for me to save my soul. That’s all that counts. In Purgatory and Heaven, I’m willing to be the weird one if that’s Gods Will.
Tell your wife the weird kids are often those with excellent parents.
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There is a common misconception that homeschooling is ‘school at home’. Meaning a parent must duplicate the typical classroom at home. It doesn’t have to be done that way.
I was unschooled starting from 4th grade. My mother pulled me out of a Novus Ordo Catholic grade school after I finished 3rd grade. She was mostly hands off, so I wound up being mostly self taught. I love to read and write, math never being an interest of mine, I at least know the basics.
I read mostly fiction until my early 20’s then that all changed when I starting reading different Saint biographies. I had a conversion back to the Faith (of which it was getting colder) and then a few years later by the grace of God I found Tradition.
I had my eldest son in a Novus Ordo Catholic school and pulled him out, started homeschooling and the rest is history. Now in his early 20’s, he is a very intelligent and articulate young man, and best of all he still has the Catholic Faith. My younger children have only ever been homeschooled. They are all very intelligent and have interests in many subjects outside of what you’d find in a typical classroom setting.
It makes me sad to meet neighborhood kids that want to play with them and you can tell they have no substance there. Very aloof and somewhat robotic. Much of it may be the public schools in the area here in the South, but still I can see the difference in my own children and public school children. Mostly because these young ones are also lacking The Church and The Sacraments and from what I’ve seen of many parents here they are self centered ego maniacs that let their children spiritually and emotionally rot in other people’s care while they work all day and party all night. These are the children ours would be attending school with. Imbibing their values on a daily basis at lunch and recess. I regret my eldest had to endure that the few years he was in school.
Take heart those with children still in schools. I prayed every morning with my son as we drove to drop him off, the Saint Michael prayer. I told my son that St Michael would be with him and he said, ‘he’d be floating above the school watching over everyone’. A sweet memory we have from that time.
Also, for those interested check into ‘Deschooling’ and ‘Unschooling’. Unschooling has a bad rap of being unstructured when it can be done in a structured way. Relaxed homeschool is another term for that too.
Good comments. Our state forces the teaching of certain subject areas, including science and math, which are fetishized in our culture, the goal seeming to be, to turn out "woke" technical whizzes who will be "useful members of society" while parroting the socialist line and not thinking independently where moral and character development is involved. In science and math, you end up basically teaching the same thing over and over, whereas in humanities and the social sciences, there is no end to the wisdom. I've even picked up the vibe in Catholic education --- and my view of Catholic high school may be skewed and jaundiced, ours was an industrial city where engineers, chemists, et al, were transferred in from other parts of the country and many were Catholics from the northeastern US --- that math and science are preferred, because being well-versed in classics, humanities, and so on, would cultivate the qualities of mind that would cause some to question the modernist Newchurch, whereas if you're an engineer or a mathematician, you're less likely to ask such questions.
That's how it was in the Soviet Union --- world-class physicists, scientists, and so on, but when it came to philosophical and metaphysical questions, well, you just learn the Communist Party line, parrot it back, and that's the be-all and end-all of it.
In Soviet life, you were just a cog in a machine. In the socialist housing estate where my wife grew up in Poland, the original plan was for the apartments not to have kitchens, but for everyone to go and take their meals in a cafeteria, dining together like good socialist workers. The prospective residents called BS on that --- you don't get between a Pole and their food, imagine telling Poles they can't cook their own meals! --- and the communists relented and allowed them to have individual kitchens, but at the cost of having one less bedroom, as the apartments had already been built. They had to retro-fit the prospective extra bedroom into a kitchen. I have to think that the most cracked-out of socialist collectivists in this country would like such an arrangement --- possibly to induce people to eat "woke" vegetarian and vegan meals prepared by dietary "experts"? Yeah... that sounds about right. This said, as a somewhat overweight, but not hideous or poorly proportioned, man of a certain physique, I look around me and cannot fathom what is making everyone get so fat! At Walmart (res ipsa loquitur) on a Saturday afternoon, "300 is the new 200", never heard of such a thing 50 years ago, obese people were rare and were considered freakish, suffering from some kind of disorder. One is tempted to think that some kind of food rationing might be in order. (I said tempted.) Y'all need to lose some weight!
Well, not to digress. We slog through repetitious math and science exercises at the expense of time we could be spending on more classics and humanities, but in our state, you're best advised to "get with the program" and keep your records in such a fashion that, should anyone ever want to look into it (and that doesn't happen), you could provide proof of an educational plan that roughly correlates with what the public schools do, though actual subject matter can have quite a bit of leeway. We studied Garibaldi (whom I explained to my son was a Freemason, and my son is death on Freemasons, he's more opposed to them than I am!) and the loss of the Papal States last night, and I can assure you, you'd never get that in a public school (nor, I doubt, in a Newchurch educational factory). Not the best state for homeschooling, not the worst. I notice in young people these days that there is a certain "flatness" of personality, they can barely interact with adults, I was scandalized one time by being introduced to a coworker's daughter, who attended a "classical" Protestant "academy", I would have expected "it's very good to meet you, Mr SimpleMan, my name is Heather", but no, slack-jawed, hands in the pockets of her hoodie, she basically just grunted. Not my idea of the best deportment when greeting an elder. Not the way I was raised. My son has some shyness issues, but even this said, he has a far more "energetic" personality than his peers. I have noticed, in the three years we've homeschooled, he no longer uses bad grammar, he's around me all the time, and now he talks like I do, with only the occasional "would have went" or "would have came" slipping out. He is never at a loss for logical, tightly reasoned arguments and statements of his own mind.
For what it's worth, homeschooling didn't exist when I was growing up, unless it would have been pupils in deepest Wyoming or Montana whose parents enrolled them in the Calvert School's correspondence program in Baltimore. I would see their ads in National Geographic and wish I could do that, instead of being forced to get up every weekday morning, but that wasn't an option. I largely educated myself (first Britannica Junior Encyclopedia, the ones with the red cover, then the "real" Britannica) without the distractions of school --- day school was more or less a forced formality for me, I learned little, though I did make excellent grades and graduated in the top 10 percent of my class, superior ACT and SAT scores, got a full academic scholarship to the state university based upon this. We all have our own gifts, and as Matthew well points out when speaking of possible intellectual differences in the races (an opinion I share, though I have to keep it to myself), to whom more is given, more is expected. I am glad that he reminded me of that. And not all gifts are equally bestowed. I am at best average in math and science, TBH I find it boring, whereas history, civics, religion, philosophy, geography (LOVE geography!), and to some extent, literature, I could teach in my sleep and never get enough of it. Our methods are as "relaxed" (good adjective for it!) as our state will allow.
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It's common to think that school at home must take many hours a day since that is what the "real schools" do. However, the "real schools" waste hours and hours of time on stupid and meaningless activities.
Truer words were never spoken. While you want to spend a substantial amount of time, and do the work and study that need to be done, a homeschool day does not have to be nearly as long as a "regular" school day. Much of day school consists of group activities, "social BS" (if you ask me), "busy work", and inane exercises in which the pupil really learns very little. Our Newchurch school's big thing was index cards, endless bundles of these little cards, math and vocabulary factoids, when I would open my son's bookbag at night, all those #%@#%!!! cards would come cascading out, and sometimes I would "lose my religion" (a figure of speech, it's a Southernism for getting irritated and expressing it), and a bad word might slip out now and then over it. We don't use index cards in homeschool.
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I know this may not apply to those with younger grade school children, but where we are in the South we see in the news often that a local school will have a teacher or coach getting busted for statutory rape with one or more of their students.
An acquaintance of mine who is a retired school teacher for our district told me years ago that teachers she worked with were frequently having sex with their students and that it was a common thing. She complimented my children and their behavior frequently, thanked me for homeschooling them more than once, and said she would not recommend public schools anymore. I was horrified and saddened to hear about these things going on at schools, but grateful for her honesty. I never attended a high school, but I guess it’s possible this may have been going on at our schools in California too? Thankfully though if it was I was spared that nasty gossip as a Catholic teen growing up.
We, too, live in the South, and we have never gotten one single negative comment from anyone about homeschooling. Southerners are polite and genteel, so this may just be "manners" in some people --- people here are not, shall we say, "direct" as many Northerners are, nor are they officious know-it-alls who can't open their mouths without saying "you should...", a behavior that is endemic in the Washington, DC area, where I lived for almost a decade. And do bear in mind that "bless your heart" is Southernese for "go *** yourself", negative speech exists, you just have to be a little more "tuned in" to pick up on it. That said, people here are pretty "chill", and there are many aspects of culture here, that are eminently reconcilable with traditional Catholicism. Very often, you might be the only practicing Catholic they've ever actually heard talk about their religion, and their attitude tends to be "Latin Mass, that's cool", and a black woman I worked with, when I explained to her about the Brown Scapular, was entirely sympathetic about it. In other words, you're less likely to run into some liberal Newchurcher who will chime in, "we don't do that anymore, that's out of date, Vatican II got rid of all that, we follow our consciences instead".
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Alright. So it's potentially gravely offensive to God if I send them to public school. I ask this because my wife has my daughter all ready to go to pre-K in a couple weeks after unsuccessfully trying to convince her we should homeschool. To reiterate: my wife is non-Catholic, so her argument is always "I don't want them to be weird".
I can relate to your situation, my sons went to public school unfortunately however they were taught their catechism through a homeschool course from the Sisters of SSPX, I feel better from me than a NO school that I almost sent them to. It was my only alternative and it worked out fine as there was a schedule established and adhered to
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I can relate to your situation, my sons went to public school unfortunately however they were taught their catechism through a homeschool course from the Sisters of SSPX, I feel better from me than a NO school that I almost sent them to. It was my only alternative and it worked out fine as there was a schedule established and adhered to
Yeah, if I cannot get my wife on board with homeschooling, then that's what I already planned on doing as well as monitor what they are learning.
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We know of a family of 5, both parents work in the hospital. One of the parents would get off shift at 10pm and when they got home, home schooled 2 subjects and went to bed. they found ways.
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We know of a family of 5, both parents work in the hospital. One of the parents would get off shift at 10pm and when they got home, home schooled 2 subjects and went to bed. they found ways.
We do a LOT of our homeschooling in the evenings. I'm retired, my son is homeschooled, "bedtime" is fairly loosely defined. Many teenagers have erratic sleep patterns, it's part of the whole adolescence thing.
It may just be me, may just be some subconscious prejudice on my part, but it seems to me, that Catholics tend to "stir earlier" than other people do. Early-morning Novus Ordo Masses in my area are packed, the 8 am at the parish near my home is standing room only. You have a lot of elderly, a lot of retired people, a lot of both retired and active duty military, and all of that coalesces into early waking habits. And then again, in the South, many people get up earlier, precisely because it's cooler at that time of the morning. You've never lived until you've breathed early-morning Southern air, slightly damp, sometimes a little steamy, but palpably crisp and cooled from the night before. Anyway, to return to the Catholic angle, I even have to wonder if early rising comes from the example set by the monastics, as well as pre-Vatican II communion fast restrictions --- it was far easier, if you'd been fasting from midnight, to receive communion at 6 or 7 am, than to have to wait until mid-morning. Perhaps something cultural that has carried over to the present day?
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Yeah, if I cannot get my wife on board with homeschooling, then that's what I already planned on doing as well as monitor what they are learning.
Set the schedule, stick to it and things will work out. Keep them motivated with the rewards of our Faith, some ice cream every now and then and God takes care of the rest! You sound like a good and concerned parent, you’ll do great!
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If exercising common sense, having a sound mind, enjoying good literature, good art and music, and being knowledgeable of real history is weird, who wouldn’t want to be weird? Who wouldn’t want their children to be weird? In fact, the weirder the better! Train them right, teach them right, instill the Faith and corresponding morals, be sure to pray, do penance, and make sacrifices. Most importantly, dedicate them to Our Lady!
^^This^^ I agree
Nothing wrong with being considered ''weird'' by worldy, immoral people.
I know people think I am ''weird'' for only wearing skirts and dresses.
DigitalLogos---hope you can do homeschooling. Pray to St Joseph!
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I remember my mom telling me that the priest told my grandmother that she could be excommunicated for moving my mom (in the 1930s) from Catholic to public school. (My grandparents were very poor and couldn't afford parochial school after 8th grade).
A now deceased lifelong friend who was raised Catholic before V2 (1st of 12 children) told me the public schools in her day
(1940s) had daily Bible readings from the protestant King James Bible, so public schools were seen as a danger to the Faith.
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I remember my mom telling me that the priest told my grandmother that she could be excommunicated for moving my mom (in the 1930s) from Catholic to public school.
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This is my understanding too. I don't think "excommunicated" is exactly the correct term. I believe bishops made rules that Catholics were forbidden to place their children i public schools under pain of mortal sin, so parents who violated that rule were not given the sacraments as they were considered public sinners. This was particularly true in parishes that had a Catholic school that the children could go to. I believe this was typical in most dioceses.
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This is my understanding too. I don't think "excommunicated" is exactly the correct term. I believe bishops made rules that Catholics were forbidden to place their children i public schools under pain of mortal sin, so parents who violated that rule were not given the sacraments as they were considered public sinners. This was particularly true in parishes that had a Catholic school that the children could go to. I believe this was typical in most dioceses.
That is probably what happened with my godmother's parents. It would be very easy to conflate such a situation with "excommunication", even though excommunication is a very precise, specific term, and simply being barred from communion as a manifest public sinner, is not as extreme as excommunication. Incidentally, such a person would also be unable to receive absolution --- I know everyone here knows this, but if they were just to "confess but not mention it", they would be committing the sin of a bad confession and lack of purpose of amendment.
The "conservative Novus Ordo" types scream bloody murder if you bring this up --- "how can you know what people confess and what they don't?", "you can't know who confesses this, unless you ask each and every Catholic in the world", and similar protestations of denial that this is a major, major problem --- but that is what happens with people who practice contraception, know of the Church's teaching on it, but do it anyway, go to confession and "just don't bring it up". I have a pet theory, that this is why relatively few Novus Ordo Catholics don't go to confession --- they don't want to confess it (that would entail a firm purpose of amendment), but they don't want NOT to confess it, perhaps afraid it's a mortal sin, but don't want to turn loose of it, because it makes life so much easier, allows one to live that part of their life on their own terms. I have to wonder how many of these people give any thought of dying suddenly in a car wreck, or having an unknown brain or vascular aneurysm --- a "thin spot" --- and dying in their sleep. Modern people gleefully say "dying in your sleep is SO the way to go, that's what I want". No you don't. You want notice, you want a priest, you want sacraments, you want the Apostolic Pardon in an explicit fashion. We don't get to choose whether we will die in our sleep or not, but it's not something we should want or wish for. I know I don't.
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This is my understanding too. I don't think "excommunicated" is exactly the correct term. I believe bishops made rules that Catholics were forbidden to place their children i public schools under pain of mortal sin, so parents who violated that rule were not given the sacraments as they were considered public sinners. This was particularly true in parishes that had a Catholic school that the children could go to. I believe this was typical in most dioceses.
Can. 1366 Parents or those who take the place of parents who hand over their children to be baptized or educated in a non Catholic religion are to be punished with a censure or other just penalty.
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My son is staying with his grandma the next few nights over at the bungalow ---not only is this good for safety reasons, but I think it is helping both of them to find closure over my father's passing --- and we had homeschool classes over there this evening. I was able to dig out my Woywod/Smith, that is over there with about half of my books, and here's what I found WRT Catholic schooling. Excommunication is not mentioned.
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Was this before Sheen embraced the Novus Ordo or after?
It is claimed he never offered it, which is unlikely (the last iterations of the transitional missal had the spurious translations which only disappeared in 2011, and which Francis re-instated in places like Italy, like Christ's sacrifice being for all, but Francis criticised that idea, while supporting it, lovely confusion in V2 land) but +Sheen transgressed against what the Church always taught with his ecuмenism and willingness to destroy a parish and school to help the humanistic goals of government. Still the quote is good, and even applicable (with little adaption) to places like the UK or Ireland where nominally Catholic schools are much more common. Which is better: a school that corrupts the Faith or says nothing on the Faith?
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My son is staying with his grandma the next few nights over at the bungalow ---not only is this good for safety reasons, but I think it is helping both of them to find closure over my father's passing --- and we had homeschool classes over there this evening. I was able to dig out my Woywod/Smith, that is over there with about half of my books, and here's what I found WRT Catholic schooling. Excommunication is not mentioned.
I found it kind of curious, that Woywod/Smith would have referred to "other Christian Churches", for it was my understanding, that traditionally, we did not use the word "Church", least of all capitalized, to refer to Protestant sects.
We probably have a gun to our heads, figuratively speaking, in a pluralistic society where all religions are not only tolerated, but where pluralism is seen as a good thing, to make colloquial use of the word "church" (no capital S, if possible to avoid it) when referring to other putatively Christian religious permutations. Someone such as a contractor (writing invoices, etc.), secretary, attorney, et al, would more or less have to.