Author Topic: Pope has double pneumonia (Read 35129 times)

Ladislaus · « **Reply #60 on:** February 19, 2025, 08:46:04 PM »

Quote from: Mark 79 on February 19, 2025, 08:41:57 PM

Lad, consider only the external forum.

Is it not Catholic dogma that unrepentant mortal sinners "belong in hell"?

You witness the willful murder of an innocent. Is it wrong to conclude that objectively the murderer "belongs in hell"?

Analogously, you witness a willful murder of Catholic morals and dogma. Is it wrong then to conclude that objectively that murderer of souls "belongs in hell"?

We all belong in Hell, barring perhaps the one or two saints who never committed mortal sin or those who died before reaching the age of reason to commit one, and even they were only preserved from sin by the unmerited grace of God. That has nothing to with 1) whether we should wish that on anyone and 2) making that judgment of a soul that belogns only to God ... He alone knows the internal forum. Not even the Church judges regarding the internal forum, de internis Ecclesia non judicat.

There is no consideration of ONLY the external forum in terms of going to Hell. Considering ONLY the external forum, we all belong there, and UNTIL WE DIE no final determination has been made, at least as far as WE know and as far as WE are concerned. Only God knows where that soul will end up, and it's not our place to decide ahead of time where that is.

Really, the more Trads act and talk like this, the more it becomes evident why Traditional Catholicism is not converting anyone.

Matthew · « **Reply #61 on:** February 19, 2025, 09:04:50 PM »

I was taught in the Seminary that if you fail to study both LIVES OF THE SAINTS and DOCTRINE, you will end up lopsided and in error.

No doctrine? You will be looking for exceptions, miracles, visions everywhere, and end up who knows where. You will have no grounding in doctrine, which teaches us the Ordinary path.
No Lives of the Saints? You will be a legalist Pharisee, considering only the dry aspects and duties of Catholicism and forget that God does sometimes make exceptions, miracles, etc. There is a Supernatural and a place for the Extraordinary.

Both are required for a balanced Catholic life.

For example, recall the saint who saw a condemned man, a criminal, heading for his execution. The man was not well disposed either; he might have been cursing or otherwise obviously "indisposed" for a holy death on the way to his execution. But this saint fervently prayed to God for his soul, and even took on his temporal punishment as penance, and God answered her prayer. The man was miraculously converted on the gallows. THAT is Charity, the love of God, true Catholicism.

The criminal in question was 100% guilty, external forum wise, he definitely "belonged in Hell" as you put it. But did the saint (St. Therese?) relish in that thought of God's justice? NO. Like Christ, she "willed not the death of the sinner, but that he be converted and live." And talk about putting one's money where their mouth is! She suffered greatly for this one soul. Like Christ would do.

And here's a sobering thought for all of us, with Lent 2 weeks from today: if you aren't ready to do the same, right now, then you aren't ready to enter heaven. Best case, if you died you would have to go to purgatory for purification. Even if you have zero sins on your soul or habitual sins, just the fact you are not in the Unitive Way means your soul is NOT ready to see God. There are undue attachments to this world, to your own will, to comfort, possessions, security, lawful pleasures, etc. which hinder your soul's ascent to Heaven.

Talking to myself as well as everyone else on the forum, of course. Just wanted to mention this as a sort of PSA, so we could all benefit more this Lent.

Mark 79 · « **Reply #62 on:** February 19, 2025, 09:14:56 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on February 19, 2025, 08:46:04 PM

We all belong in Hell, barring perhaps the one or two saints who never committed mortal sin or those who died before reaching the age of reason to commit one, and even they were only preserved from sin by the unmerited grace of God. That has nothing to with 1) whether we should wish that on anyone and 2) making that judgment of a soul that belogns only to God ... He alone knows the internal forum. Not even the Church judges regarding the internal forum, de internis Ecclesia non judicat.

There is no consideration of ONLY the external forum in terms of going to Hell. Considering ONLY the external forum, we all belong there, and UNTIL WE DIE no final determination has been made, at least as far as WE know and as far as WE are concerned. Only God knows where that soul will end up, and it's not our place to decide ahead of time where that is.

Really, the more Trads act and talk like this, the more it becomes evident why Traditional Catholicism is not converting anyone.

I would argue that we all belong in Heaven. It is our own [Original and] unrepented willful sins that put us in Hell.

That said, What happens to a soul that dies in a state of mortal sin? It goes to Hell. Right?

Perhaps it is the semantics attached to the word "belong." You say we all belong in hell (because of our actual sinful natures). I say we all belong in Heaven (because of what God wants for us). We are both correct. It depends entirely on what sense of "belong" that we each mean.

It is among the most basic and indisputable tenets of Catholicism, grammar school catechism, that unrepentant mortal sinners ~~belong in~~ go to hell.

Is an Anti-Pope my father in any legitimate sense? I think not. Jorge is an abusive imposter. How then can I legitimately be called to any special filial piety?

Certainly I owe Jorge the pious concern that is due every person. I confess that I am not a good enough person, too bitter, to give him any more than that bare minimum. For the sake of suffering souls in Purgatory I can barely manage to pray after the Rosary the "necessary papal intentions" for their indulgence. Certainly I need to do better in that and better also in my many other deficiencies.

What is the line in The Count of Monte Cristo? "I am not a saint. I am only a [man]." <<< In no way does that imply that I am content to remain at this level, but am only recognizing the true state of myself as best I see myself.

Matthew · « **Reply #63 on:** February 19, 2025, 09:17:16 PM »

I have no disordered desire to see Jorge Bergoglio burn in Hell for eternity. However, I do want to see him stop destroying the Church. That's fair.

I also pray for an end to the Crisis in the Church which has gone on for about 11 years longer than I've been alive -- and I'm not that young.

I know Gen Z likes to blame Boomers for everything, and some talk about how they can't wait till all the Boomers are dead. But you know what? When that does come to pass, then NO ONE ALIVE will remember a time when the Church hasn't been in Crisis. It's the Babylonian Captivity all over again. Kyrie Eleison.

Matthew · « **Reply #64 on:** February 19, 2025, 09:23:25 PM »

Another analogy I wanted to throw out there --

A man isn't permitted to "enjoy" or "consent" to any pleasure that results from nocturnal emission. However, it's interesting that one is morally permitted to be happy about the aftermath, namely the temporary drop-off in concupiscence that occurs afterward. One is explicitly allowed to be happy about that part. I remember that, because it was somewhat unexpected as I read it.

I see strong parallels here. You aren't allowed to relish or root for a man's condemnation or unhappy death -- but since it HAPPENED (outside your control of course) you can go ahead and be happy about the benefits to the Church that will follow due to his absence.

Mark 79 · « **Reply #65 on:** February 19, 2025, 10:16:41 PM »

Quote from: Matthew on February 19, 2025, 09:23:25 PM

Another analogy I wanted to throw out there --

A man isn't permitted to "enjoy" or "consent" to any pleasure that results from nocturnal emission. However, it's interesting that one is morally permitted to be happy about the aftermath, namely the temporary drop-off in concupiscence that occurs afterward. One is explicitly allowed to be happy about that part. I remember that, because it was somewhat unexpected as I read it.

I see strong parallels here. You aren't allowed to relish or root for a man's condemnation or unhappy death -- but since it HAPPENED (outside your control of course) you can go ahead and be happy about the benefits to the Church that will follow due to his absence.

I nominate that for First Place in the thread killer category.

Could you please cross-post that comment in any of Gray 2023's new threads or her "I am sorry in advance if people do not like this poll" polls?
Thanks in advance.

Stubborn · « **Reply #66 on:** February 20, 2025, 04:50:50 AM »

Quote from: IndultCat on February 18, 2025, 11:23:24 PM

Maybe he will finally kick the proverbial bucket this time. He has done so much damage to the faith of devout Catholics for over a decade and is such a manifest heretic that he can't die soon enough. And for those who think that is too harsh and un-Catholic, please look in the Catholic Encyclopedia under the term "Hate/Hatred" where it says that it is perfectly fine to pray for the death of a heresiarch and Bergoglio is a genuine heresiarch through and through. The sooner he dies and goes to hell where he belongs, the sooner the Church will be free from The Bergoglian Captivity.

The notion of wishing anyone to hell for all eternity is the most uncharitable and uncatholic thing any Catholic could possibly wish for.

"...Consider my son, that if you go to hell, you will never leave it. There, every pain is suffered and suffered forever.
Even when a hundred years have gone by since you went to hell, or a thousand, hell will be just beginning. After a hundred thousand, a hundred million years, after millions of centuries, hell will still be just beginning.

If an angel were to bring news to the damned that God had decided to free them from hell when as many million centuries had passed as there are drops of water in the ocean, leaves on the trees and grains of sand on the earth - if the damned were to hear that, they would be immensely consoled. "True", they would say, "many centuries must yet pass, but some day the time of our freedom will come."

In reality, however, such vast stretches of time and more than we can possibly imagine, shall pass and find hell still only beginning.

Every soul damned in hell would be willing to make this agreement with God: "Lord, increase my suffering as much as You will; make me stay here in this place of torment as long as You will, but give me hope that someday You will free me."
But no, this hope, this end to suffering, shall never be..." - So High The Price

Ladislaus · « **Reply #67 on:** February 20, 2025, 07:38:48 AM »

Quote from: Stubborn on February 20, 2025, 04:50:50 AM

The notion of wishing anyone to hell for all eternity is the most uncharitable and uncatholic thing any Catholic could possibly wish for.

THIS ^^^

Jr1991 · « **Reply #68 on:** February 22, 2025, 01:43:15 PM »

[color=var(--accent-foreground-rest)]Pope Francis[/url], who has been [color=var(--accent-foreground-rest)]hospitalized for over a week[/color], is in critical condition after a "prolonged asthma-like respiratory crisis," the Vatican said Saturday.[/font][/size][/color]
The pope is "more unwell than yesterday," the Vatican said in a statement.

The 88-year-old pontiff was [color=var(--accent-foreground-rest)]hospitalized at the Gemelli University Hospital in Rome on Feb. 14[/url] for treatment for bronchitis, and was later diagnosed with a [color=var(--accent-foreground-rest)]polymicrobial infection[/color] and is being treated for double pneumonia. The Vatican first announced he had bronchitis on Feb. 6.[/font][/size][/color]

He also needed blood transfusions due to anemia and high-flow oxygen during the respiratory crisis, the Vatican said on Saturday. Still, the pope is alert and spent much of the day seated in an armchair.

His prognosis is "guarded," the Vatican said.

"The Holy Father's condition remains critical," the statement said. "The Pope is not out of danger."
Before his hospitalization, Francis reportedly struggled to speak and breathe at his public appearances and meetings in recent weeks. He has asked aides to read prepared remarks for him.
Francis has had several bouts with illness and visits to the Gemelli hospital in recent years, including flu-like [color=var(--accent-foreground-rest)]symptoms at this time last year[/url], [color=var(--accent-foreground-rest)]bronchitis in March 2023[/color] and [color=var(--accent-foreground-rest)]abdominal surgery in June 2023[/color] to repair a hernia that kept him in the hospital nine days.[/font][/size][/color]
He also had two recent falls in December and last month, the Vatican said.

Pope Francis in critical condition after a 'respiratory crisis,' Vatican says

SimpleMan · « **Reply #69 on:** February 22, 2025, 01:47:02 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on February 20, 2025, 07:38:48 AM

THIS ^^^

Absolutely. The phenomenon in modern culture of wishing eternal damnation upon people is horrible. These are not people to whom you should wish to have your children exposed.

IndultCat · « **Reply #70 on:** February 22, 2025, 02:24:01 PM »

Quote from: SimpleMan on February 22, 2025, 01:47:02 PM

Absolutely. The phenomenon in modern culture of wishing eternal damnation upon people is horrible. These are not people to whom you should wish to have your children exposed.

Weak non-judgmental and non-punishmental attitudes like this is the reason the Church and the rest of the world is in the current state it is in.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #71 on:** February 22, 2025, 02:27:50 PM »

As per the link above, they say Bergoglio had an acute episode this morning and reports were that he was in critical condition, requiring heavy oxygen and blood transfusion. Evidently he may have to go on a ventilator. Next they'll put him in remdesivir. I wonder how many died that way on account of his jab push.

Very interesting since today is the Feast of the Chair of St. Peter

Yeti · « **Reply #72 on:** February 22, 2025, 02:29:19 PM »

Hmm. So people really think Bergoglio is near the end? I sure didn't get that impression from what I read on the news websites, but I guess this sort of thing can change rapidly.

Meg · « **Reply #73 on:** February 22, 2025, 02:32:04 PM »

Quote from: Jr1991 on February 22, 2025, 01:43:15 PM

[color=var(--accent-foreground-rest)]Pope Francis[/url], who has been [color=var(--accent-foreground-rest)]hospitalized for over a week[/color], is in critical condition after a "prolonged asthma-like respiratory crisis," the Vatican said Saturday.[/font][/size][/color]
The pope is "more unwell than yesterday," the Vatican said in a statement.

The 88-year-old pontiff was [color=var(--accent-foreground-rest)]hospitalized at the Gemelli University Hospital in Rome on Feb. 14[/url] for treatment for bronchitis, and was later diagnosed with a [color=var(--accent-foreground-rest)]polymicrobial infection[/color] and is being treated for double pneumonia. The Vatican first announced he had bronchitis on Feb. 6.[/font][/size][/color]

He also needed blood transfusions due to anemia and high-flow oxygen during the respiratory crisis, the Vatican said on Saturday. Still, the pope is alert and spent much of the day seated in an armchair.

His prognosis is "guarded," the Vatican said.

"The Holy Father's condition remains critical," the statement said. "The Pope is not out of danger."
Before his hospitalization, Francis reportedly struggled to speak and breathe at his public appearances and meetings in recent weeks. He has asked aides to read prepared remarks for him.
Francis has had several bouts with illness and visits to the Gemelli hospital in recent years, including flu-like [color=var(--accent-foreground-rest)]symptoms at this time last year[/url], [color=var(--accent-foreground-rest)]bronchitis in March 2023[/color] and [color=var(--accent-foreground-rest)]abdominal surgery in June 2023[/color] to repair a hernia that kept him in the hospital nine days.[/font][/size][/color]
He also had two recent falls in December and last month, the Vatican said.

Pope Francis in critical condition after a 'respiratory crisis,' Vatican says

It seems odd that Pope Francis is both spending his day seated in an armchair, AND in critical condition. I picture those who are in critical condition to be in bed. In any case, it's sad that he may leave this world soon. He likely won't repent of his heresies, but maybe Our Lord will have more mercy on him than he deserves. I know I hope that I will receive more mercy than I deserve in my final days and hours.

A worse Modernist Pope will likely follow Francis. We ain't seen nothin' yet! Still, I'll offer prayers for Francis' conversion.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #74 on:** February 22, 2025, 02:37:15 PM »

Quote from: IndultCat on February 22, 2025, 02:24:01 PM

Weak non-judgmental and non-punishmental attitudes like this is the reason the Church and the rest of the world is in the current state it is in.

No. You can be just without being hateful. It's why the court will impose the death penalty but then invoke God's mercy on the convicted criminal's soul, providing access to a priest, etc. Only a weak-minded individual can't distinguish between the two, between being just with tough penalties and relishing the damnation of a soul... as if your bloviation of hatred here does anything to improve the state of the Church. It just makes the world think that Trad Catholics are wicked haters. I've been as firm as anyone in condemning the heresies of this Antipope, but I desire his conversion and salvation. If you can't separate the two then you are both psychologically and spiritually damaged.

Author Topic: Pope has double pneumonia (Read 35129 times)

Ladislaus

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Matthew

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Mark 79

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Matthew

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Matthew

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Mark 79

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Stubborn

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Ladislaus

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Jr1991

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SimpleMan

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IndultCat

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Ladislaus

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Yeti

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Meg

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Ladislaus

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