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Author Topic: Omitting the Genuflection for the Jєωs  (Read 2778 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

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Re: Omitting the Genuflection for the Jєωs
« Reply #30 on: April 16, 2022, 10:10:23 PM »
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  • Evidently Lent has not changed you much.  Some of us were defending your rash imputation of error to Dom Gueranger.  You also articulated a Sola Scriptura position in a later post.

    Loudestmouth-

    Thanks for the gratuitous assertions; keep pounding them out, brother!  

    Remember: If you spew enough vomit, someone might find it delicious.

    But heaven forbid you should provide a citation to back your hallucinations!
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Omitting the Genuflection for the Jєωs
    « Reply #31 on: April 16, 2022, 10:11:17 PM »
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  • Maybe one year you’ll grow up a little bit as a result of Lent.

    I do not hold out the same hope for you.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Omitting the Genuflection for the Jєωs
    « Reply #32 on: April 16, 2022, 10:13:57 PM »
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  • Sure, Sean, citing Cornelius a Lapide and St. Jerome is “emotionalism”.

    It was done with little comment and the only emotionalism here is coming from you ... a classic example of projection.

    Except that you’re too emotional to admit that you never made it all the way through the OP to recognize that you only supplied ammo to back my OP (ie., In this regard LT is your better, whereas you need to keep flailing until you can find a way to save face).  

    Some things never change.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Omitting the Genuflection for the Jєωs
    « Reply #33 on: April 16, 2022, 10:15:45 PM »
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  • Um, ... I cited Gueranger. I consider him a solid authority.

    Eh, I cited Gueranger in my OP, which makes me wonder what you are emoting about.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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    • γνῶθι σεαυτόν - temet nosce
    Re: Omitting the Genuflection for the Jєωs
    « Reply #34 on: April 17, 2022, 09:21:23 PM »
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  • At my 1962-Rite Independent chapel, I did not bend the knee when it came time to pray for the Jєωs ... was the only guy in the entire church standing.  I prayed for them sincerely to convert, but the Jєωs are attempting to get the entire world to bend the knee to them, and I refuse therefore to bend the knee for them in prayer.
    I went to the SSPV chapel for Good Friday as I tend to do annually for Holy Week. The liturgy was a proper, pre-1955 Mass of the Presanctified with no genuflection for the Red Sea pedestrians...and no Collect for Bergoglio. 😀👍
    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
    Nicolás Gómez Dávila


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Omitting the Genuflection for the Jєωs
    « Reply #35 on: April 18, 2022, 06:33:41 AM »
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  • Indeed. There is also, in the pre-1955 Holy Week, the 12th reading on Holy Saturday that tells the story of Nabuchodonosor and his idol, and he commanded the three young men to bow to his idol and they refused. The Church omits the genuflection after that reading too, because of the mention of the idolatrous genuflection in the reading.

    So is this insulting to idolators that we don't genuflect there either, and should we genuflect there so as not to offend idolators?
    I did not know this.  If this is the case, why do the pre-1955 Good Friday prayers include a genuflection for pagans [which includes the Romans]?

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Omitting the Genuflection for the Jєωs
    « Reply #36 on: April 18, 2022, 07:36:12 AM »
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  • I went to the SSPV chapel for Good Friday as I tend to do annually for Holy Week. The liturgy was a proper, pre-1955 Mass of the Presanctified with no genuflection for the Red Sea pedestrians...and no Collect for Bergoglio. 😀👍

    I do wish they would at least consider moving the times, do the Good Friday Liturgy between noon and 3PM, and then Holy Saturday at night.  In other respects, the SSPV do accept a number of the Pope Pius XII changes in that regard, so for instance the 3-hour fast before Holy Communion (vs. from midnight) and the ability to offer Masses in the evenings, which they'll occasionally do.  Not ALL of the changes in the 1955 rite were entirely inappropriate or illegitimate.  Unfortunately, Bugnini and company used those to sneak in the other Modernist stuff.  One could also argue for shortening the Holy Saturday Vigil (maybe pare down some of the lessons).  There was an issue with the Easter Vigil being poorly attended before V2, due to the length.  My elderly (and rather frail) mother only went to the last part of it because she couldn't deal with the 4.5 hours.  And if you have younger children, etc., it's almost an impossibility.  Again, there were two reasons they originally had all those lessons.  1) it was considered a final instruction for the Catechumens who were to be baptized that evening and 2) the Vigil went on overnight for many hours, so in that case, why not?

    Yes, as others have pointed out, the notion of light and dark do have a mystical significance, and yet at the same time the ceremonies were clearly designed to take place overnight.  I would like to see it restored to taking place overnight, where perhaps you would do the first part before midnight, culminating in the Baptism of the Catechumens at around midnight, have the lessons spaced out throughout the night (for those able to stay), followed by the first Easter Mass at Dawn (or first light).  Then the other Easter Masses later.  That would be an amazing experience, and the one which was common in early Church.