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Author Topic: Questions about Traditional Holy Week  (Read 680 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

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Questions about Traditional Holy Week
« on: April 18, 2022, 07:47:26 AM »
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  • Some questions occurred to me this year as I watched the traditional Holy Week rites, and cursory searches did not yield any answers.  It would be much appreciated if any members could point me toward resources which could explain any of the following:

    1) Pictured below (or see this video from the Mass of the Presanctified at 9:10),  Can anyone explain the liturgical meaning of the deacon and subdeacons sitting on the altar steps?



    2) I know the folded chasible and broad stole were suppressed, but what is their purpose/function/meaning?

    3) On Holy Saturday, before the reading of the 12 prophecies and again when vesting for the Mass, it looked like Bishop Dolan vested in BOTH the chasuble and the Dalmatic (being worn simultaneously, one over the other).  Is this something specific to Holy Saturday, or just part of a bishops normal vesting (ie., I don’t get to see many Pontifical Masses)?

    4) Regarding the veneration of the cross, do the faithful make a triple genuflection in socks (as the clergy and ministers do), or do they just make a single genuflection in shoes?
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Questions about Traditional Holy Week
    « Reply #1 on: April 18, 2022, 10:31:08 AM »
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  • I grew up at an independent chapel, and the priest said the "pre-1955" Mass, and no doubt the old Holy Week.

    Holy Saturday service was at 6 in the morning for example.
    But on Good Friday, I definitely remember taking off my shoes for the genuflection (I was one of the altar boys). I remember being quite impressed with that ceremony as a lad.
    Maybe it's why I still find Holy Week so important to me now, even though I now attend the revised Holy Week? Hmm...

    But I don't know if I can help you much, because A) I was a kid and B) our priest was always in a hurry, cutting corners, etc. so he could get to his next chapel. He did a lot of driving/travelling around Illinois/Wisconsin by car and tried to take care of as many little chapels as possible -- possibly one too many, if you get my meaning. I distinctly remember as a boy thinking Holy Week serving was pretty chaotic, random -- we didn't do practices or anything. Compared to serving Mass where rubrics for serving were set in stone, I got the feeling I couldn't "learn the exact motions" for Holy Week if I served 30 years in a row :) At least that was my feeling as a boy.

    We definitely didn't full chant anything; our chapel was pretty weak on Chant unfortunately. Growing up I only heard Mass 8 and the Asperges Me. And the same Tantum Ergo/O Salutaris Hostia/Holy God we Praise Thy Name at Benediction. I never heard the Vidi Aquam till I joined the Seminary. I never saw a page of full chant, or a Liber Usualis, till I joined the Seminary.


    But to answer one of your questions, it was only the "ministers" (priest and altar servers/boys) who did the shoe-less genuflections. If you think about it, that makes sense.
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    Offline Emile

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    Re: Questions about Traditional Holy Week
    « Reply #2 on: April 18, 2022, 01:28:21 PM »
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  • Some questions occurred to me this year as I watched the traditional Holy Week rites, and cursory searches did not yield any answers.  It would be much appreciated if any members could point me toward resources which could explain any of the following:

    1) Pictured below (or see this video from the Mass of the Presanctified at 9:10),  Can anyone explain the liturgical meaning of the deacon and subdeacons sitting on the altar steps?

    2) I know the folded chasuble and broad stole were suppressed, but what is their purpose/function/meaning?

    3) On Holy Saturday, before the reading of the 12 prophecies and again when vesting for the Mass, it looked like Bishop Dolan vested in BOTH the chasuble and the Dalmatic (being worn simultaneously, one over the other).  Is this something specific to Holy Saturday, or just part of a bishops normal vesting (ie., I don’t get to see many Pontifical Masses)?
    Fr. Thurston's work is worth a look. Here's his chapter on the folded chasuble:

    https://archive.org/details/lentandholyweekc00thuruoft/page/n180/mode/1up


    Quote
    4) Regarding the veneration of the cross, do the faithful make a triple genuflection in socks (as the clergy and ministers do), or do they just make a single genuflection in shoes?
    I don't know if there is a correct rubric for the laity, I have seen both.

    If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?

    ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

    Offline cath4ever

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    Re: Questions about Traditional Holy Week
    « Reply #3 on: April 18, 2022, 09:42:29 PM »
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  • Regarding the Bishop wearing a dalmatic under the chasuble, that is part of a Bishop's full pontifical vesture for a Pontifical High Mass. At a Pontifical High Mass a Bishop wears: buskins, sandals, amice, alb, cincture, pectoral cross, stole, tunic, dalmatic, gloves, chasuble, and miter, and carries the crozier.



    For a Pontifical Requiem Mass, as well as for Good Friday (since it's "kind of" a Requiem Mass) a Bishop does NOT wear the buskins,  sandals, or gloves, nor does he carry the crozier.



    As far as your question about the Veneration of the Cross, I too have seen it done both ways. I've been to several different churches for the pre-55 Holy Week and it seems to be a function of both how big the church and sanctuary are, as well as the number of faithful there.



    In larger churches they tend to just bring a crucifix to the Communion Rail and the people come up to kiss it pretty much as they come up when receiving Holy Communion at the rail. It's been a couple years since I was last at Saint Gertrude's for Holy Week but I believe that is what they do for the Veneration of the Cross by the faithful.



    In smaller churches, like my own chapel and several others I've been to, they roll the purple carpet all the way down the nave, and the faithful take their shoes off and do the three double genuflections just like the clergy and servers do.


    Regarding the broad stole, I'm not sure of the purpose or meaning, but as far as its function it is worn by the Deacon from the Gospel of the Mass until Communion time, after which he puts the folded chasuble back on.



    Similarly to this, at a Solemn Mass when folded chasubles are worn the subdeacon takes his folded chasuble off to sing the Epistle, although he does not put something else on as the Deacon does in the case of the broad stole. The subdeacon also puts his folded chasuble back on much sooner than the Deacon does.



    I'm not sure of the symbolism of the AP and the Deacon sitting on the altar steps on Good Friday, although I have been impressed by that myself too when I've seen it done.