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Author Topic: Meaning of Matthew 7:23  (Read 1802 times)

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Offline WhiteWorkinClassScapegoat

Meaning of Matthew 7:23
« on: May 19, 2023, 11:05:39 AM »
Does Jesus literally mean He never knew the sinners, even those who called upon Him? God is all-knowing but does this verse mean by His own Divine mystery He only knows some of His children - those baptized into Christ with water and Spirit AND live His teachings (do good works in His Name, charity, and live the Faith)?

Would this explain why many Catholics ask Blessed Mary to intercede for them, and their prayers are answered because she knows us, and her Son will do what she asks of Him, if for His greater glory and to show that He is real), but in the end, same Catholics will perish for eternity because, ultimately, they were wicked, hence, Jesus Christ never knew these people? Would this explain the meaning of the names written in the Book of Life mentioned in Revelation? God only knows those souls who are written in that Book?
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Offline Stubborn

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Re: Meaning of Matthew 7:23
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2023, 11:46:42 AM »
Quote from: WhiteWorkinClassScapegoat on May 19, 2023, 11:05:39 AM
Does Jesus literally mean He never knew the sinners, even those who called upon Him? God is all-knowing but does this verse mean by His own Divine mystery He only knows some of His children - those baptized into Christ with water and Spirit AND live His teachings (do good works in His Name, charity, and live the Faith)?

Would this explain why many Catholics ask Blessed Mary to intercede for them, and their prayers are answered because she knows us, and her Son will do what she asks of Him, if for His greater glory and to show that He is real), but in the end, same Catholics will perish for eternity because, ultimately, they were wicked, hence, Jesus Christ never knew these people? Would this explain the meaning of the names written in the Book of Life mentioned in Revelation? God only knows those souls who are written in that Book?
The Scripture for reference:
Mat. 7:21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.  22 Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name?  23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.


I can't find a video of it at the moment, but Fr. Wathen explains it very well. Very briefly from memory, the jist of it is that those who are pleading that they've done many miracles in His name etc. lived and died outside of the Catholic Church, hence He never knew them. The video is named, or at one time was named, "Outside of the Catholic Church there is no salvation."

If I find it I will post it, it's well worth hearing.
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Offline WhiteWorkinClassScapegoat

Re: Meaning of Matthew 7:23
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2023, 11:54:31 AM »
Quote from: Stubborn on May 19, 2023, 11:46:42 AM
The Scripture for reference:
Mat. 7:21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.  22 Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name?  23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.


I can't find a video of it at the moment, but Fr. Wathen explains it very well. Very briefly from memory, the jist of it is that those who are pleading that they've done many miracles in His name etc. lived and died outside of the Catholic Church, hence He never knew them. The video is named, or at one time was named, "Outside of the Catholic Church there is no salvation."

If I find it I will post it, it's well worth hearing.

Thanks Stubborn. I very much like Fr. Wathen. Please post if you find it.

So it's only heretics and apostates that Christ never knew? Did He literally never know them? Or does it, also, include Catholics who die in mortal sin? To live in sin is to be lawless (iniquitous/iniquity) - against Divine Law.
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Offline Stubborn

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Re: Meaning of Matthew 7:23
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2023, 12:13:56 PM »

It's everyone outside of the Church. Here is a  Link to Fr. Wathen's sermons I think there are about 150 of them, all audio, no video and the above title I mentioned is one of them. You need to just download to your computer and find that title. And of course there are many other great sermons in there, another one about salvation is named "Only sanctification is the authentic mark of a true Christian and a true prophet." (I have no idea who named these sermons, talks, interviews etc., but I think most of the names reflect pretty well what the sermon is about).

Anyway, it's not as if Christ did not know them in that verse, He knew them and created them for heaven, but they chose hell by remaining outside of the Church, by remaining outside of the Church they could not know Him.
 But it's hard to do this particular subject justice in this format while I'm working, better to listen to the sermon, he answers your questions a whole lot better than I could. After you do that, please post your thoughts.
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Offline DecemRationis

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Re: Meaning of Matthew 7:23
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2023, 02:29:45 PM »
Quote from: WhiteWorkinClassScapegoat on May 19, 2023, 11:54:31 AM
Thanks Stubborn. I very much like Fr. Wathen. Please post if you find it.

So it's only heretics and apostates that Christ never knew? Did He literally never know them? Or does it, also, include Catholics who die in mortal sin? To live in sin is to be lawless (iniquitous/iniquity) - against Divine Law.

The "known" ones are the elect; the "unknown" ones are everyone else, and yes, that includes non-elect Catholics. This verse says it nicely, especially being inclusive of your accurate iniquity comment:

2 Timothy 2:19

But the sure foundation of God standeth firm, having this seal: the Lord knoweth who are his; and let every one depart from iniquity who nameth the name of the Lord.
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