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Author Topic: Marriage vows and domestic abuse  (Read 10145 times)

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Offline Matthew

  • Mod
Re: Marriage vows and domestic abuse
« Reply #30 on: July 17, 2022, 06:21:27 PM »
Quote from: epiphany on July 17, 2022, 05:31:57 PM
True, but in my opinion, and I am no theologian, that deceit regarding a serious character defect which will hamper the marriage, are two errors about the quality of the person which amounts to errors of the person.

You can't hide something as fundamental as a choleric temperament or a tendency to lose one's temper. If the woman is not blind, she will see that her husband is prone to anger, control, even violence when provoked. It's like saying a man could hide being a man, pretending he was a female. No, everything about him would betray him. His stride, his bearing, his posture, everything would betray "I'm a man".

Love is notoriously blind, but it can't be cited later as grounds for annulment. What did the woman think? The way he treated that waiter at the restaurant last week is how he's going to treat YOU in 10 years. No he wasn't just "having a bad day". Women are notorious for making excuses for stuff like this, especially when infatuation/love/emotions are involved.

Oh, and you should court your prospective spouse longer than a few weeks, or a few months, especially if you have any doubts. Even an alcoholic can stay clean for a week or two...

There is nothing so tragic as the man (or woman) who deceives HIMSELF.
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Offline josefamenendez

Re: Marriage vows and domestic abuse
« Reply #31 on: July 17, 2022, 06:49:45 PM »
Matthew stated:
Long story short, the SSPX (and others) might be advised to consider annulments legit, but that does NOT mean God is OK with that annulment. You are responsible for your own soul. You should be concerned what GOD thinks, not the Conciliar Church, the SSPX, a trad group, a trad priest, or your friend group.
                                       *********************

Yikes!! I thought that is why we adjure to the Church so we do not have to wrestle with personal subjectivism, scrupulosity or laxity. Isn't that why we go to the Church*- what is bound on Earth shall be bound in Heaven?  I realize we are in a crisis and we may not have acceptable authoritative direction, but should we lean unto our own understanding about this? 

(*PS-I am talking about legitimate Trad priests)




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Offline SimpleMan

Re: Marriage vows and domestic abuse
« Reply #32 on: July 17, 2022, 06:59:07 PM »
Quote from: Matthew on July 17, 2022, 06:21:27 PM
You can't hide something as fundamental as a choleric temperament or a tendency to lose one's temper. If the woman is not blind, she will see that her husband is prone to anger, control, even violence when provoked. It's like saying a man could hide being a man, pretending he was a female. No, everything about him would betray him. His stride, his bearing, his posture, everything would betray "I'm a man".

Love is notoriously blind, but it can't be cited later as grounds for annulment. What did the woman think? The way he treated that waiter at the restaurant last week is how he's going to treat YOU in 10 years. No he wasn't just "having a bad day". Women are notorious for making excuses for stuff like this, especially when infatuation/love/emotions are involved.

Oh, and you should court your prospective spouse longer than a few weeks, or a few months, especially if you have any doubts. Even an alcoholic can stay clean for a week or two...

There is nothing so tragic as the man (or woman) who deceives HIMSELF.

"Isolated incidents" rarely are.
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Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Marriage vows and domestic abuse
« Reply #33 on: July 17, 2022, 07:31:24 PM »
Quote from: Matthew on July 17, 2022, 06:21:27 PM
The way he treated that waiter at the restaurant last week is how he's going to treat YOU in 10 years. No he wasn't just "having a bad day". Women are notorious for making excuses for stuff like this, especially when infatuation/love/emotions are involved.

That's actually a great piece of advice here for those courting, whether men or women.  Keep an eye out for how the prospective spouse treats other people.  Perhaps they're trying very hard to be nice and kind to you, or perhaps generally are moved to be that way due to emotions and/or infatuation, but watch how they treat other people, whether strangers or else people in their own family.  Once the infatuation wears off, that's what they'll be like to you also.

So, even if they COULD hide some character defect, that doesn't rise to the level of justifying an annulment.  On those grounds, 95% of marriages might be in doubt.  There are always some things that manifest themselves more clearly later that perhaps were squeezed out by emotions and infatuation, etc.  And good luck trying to draw a solid line between those things that are critical and relevant to the essence of a marriage, and those things that are not.  "I found out that this man doesn't put down the toilet seat when he's finished urinating.  This is not the man I thought I was marrying."  That's an obviously absurd example, but where exactly can the line be drawn?  As the snippet from the 1917 Code indicates, errors regarding the QUALITY of the person can annul only if they rise to the level of changing the essence of the person.  We had a discussion at some point where I held that a woman who found out that her husband had been a sodomite would fall into this category, but then others cited various decisions from marriage tribunals indicating that even that grave a character defect did not necessarily mean the marriage was null.  Some Canonists felt that it did, but many that it did not.  That surprised me.  And it is clear, for instance, if a woman found out later that the man had been a serial fornicator, that this would not impact the validity of the marriage either.
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Online Minnesota

Re: Marriage vows and domestic abuse
« Reply #34 on: July 17, 2022, 08:43:54 PM »
Quote from: Matthew on July 17, 2022, 06:21:27 PM
You can't hide something as fundamental as a choleric temperament or a tendency to lose one's temper. If the woman is not blind, she will see that her husband is prone to anger, control, even violence when provoked. It's like saying a man could hide being a man, pretending he was a female. No, everything about him would betray him. His stride, his bearing, his posture, everything would betray "I'm a man".

Love is notoriously blind, but it can't be cited later as grounds for annulment. What did the woman think? The way he treated that waiter at the restaurant last week is how he's going to treat YOU in 10 years. No he wasn't just "having a bad day". Women are notorious for making excuses for stuff like this, especially when infatuation/love/emotions are involved.

Oh, and you should court your prospective spouse longer than a few weeks, or a few months, especially if you have any doubts. Even an alcoholic can stay clean for a week or two...

There is nothing so tragic as the man (or woman) who deceives HIMSELF.

These are great points, especially about the courting. A lot of people will put up a front if they want to make that first impression, but then suddenly, the curtain falls.

And how he treats not only the waiter, but other people in a regular setting. That is a very big indicator.
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