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Author Topic: +Lefebrve and withholding jurisdiction  (Read 1967 times)

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Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: +Lefebrve and withholding jurisdiction
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2020, 08:02:21 PM »
Code: [Select]
Nevertheless, in a state of grave general spiritual necessity (or even
individual necessity), jurisdiction springs from the request of the
faithful.
This is exactly what canon law says.
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Offline StLouisIX

Re: +Lefebrve and withholding jurisdiction
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2020, 11:17:18 PM »
In this clip from his conference "Return to Sanity", Fr. Hesse explains supplied jurisdiction and how it applies to the SSPX: 

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Offline Struthio

Re: +Lefebrve and withholding jurisdiction
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2020, 11:40:20 PM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on September 05, 2020, 08:02:21 PM
Code: [Select]
Nevertheless, in a state of grave general spiritual necessity (or even
individual necessity), jurisdiction springs from the request of the
faithful.
This is exactly what canon law says.

Which Canon?
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Offline TKGS

Re: +Lefebrve and withholding jurisdiction
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2020, 05:32:13 AM »
When conferring the sacraments, the minister must have the intention to do what the Church does.  One cannot withhold the intention to perform an act that one performs.  If the proper matter and form are used and the minister performs the rites according to the rites established by the Church, he is intending to do as the Church does.  

The idea that a person can withhold intention for performing an act while actually performing the act is like saying that Mother did not intend to make dinner even though she made dinner and dinner was set on the table.
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Offline Struthio

Re: +Lefebrve and withholding jurisdiction
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2020, 09:41:54 AM »
Quote from: TKGS on September 06, 2020, 05:32:13 AM
When conferring the sacraments, the minister must have the intention to do what the Church does.  One cannot withhold the intention to perform an act that one performs.  If the proper matter and form are used and the minister performs the rites according to the rites established by the Church, he is intending to do as the Church does.  

The idea that a person can withhold intention for performing an act while actually performing the act is like saying that Mother did not intend to make dinner even though she made dinner and dinner was set on the table.

The Roman and Universal Inquisition (Pope Alexander VIII, December 7, 1690, Errors of the Jansenists) condemned the following proposition:

Quote from: Denzinger 1318
28. Baptism is valid when conferred by a minister who observes all the external rite and form of baptizing, but within his heart resolves, I do not intend what the Church does.

For more details see Joseph Pohle: The sacraments : a dogmatic treatise.

The topic was discussed on CI: https://www.cathinfo.com/the-sacred-catholic-liturgy-chant-prayers/are-novus-ordo-baptisms-valid-57051/
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