Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Filioque - the importance of accurate translation from Greek  (Read 2428 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Filioque - the importance of accurate translation from Greek
« on: November 21, 2019, 04:39:02 AM »
One of the grounds of contention, between Orthodox and Catholics, that contributed to caused the great schism, is the Filioque question.

Perhaps the original greek texts convey a different meaning from the vulgate latin texts, on this issue. I am not qualified to generate my own opinion and I would like this community's help.


From wikipedia:
------------------------------------------------
Frederick Bauerschmidt notes that what Medieval theologians disregarded as minor objections about ambiguous terms, was in fact an "insufficient understanding of the semantic difference" between the Greek and Latin terms in both the East and the West.[55] The West used the more generic Latin term procedere (to move forward; to come forth) which is more synonymous with the Greek term προϊέναι (proienai) than the more specific Greek term ἐκπορεύεσθαι (ekporeuesthai, "to issue forth as from an origin").[55] The West traditionally used one term and the East traditionally used two terms to convey arguably equivalent and complementary meaning, that is, ekporeuesthai from the Father and proienai from the Son.[55][54] Moreover, the more generic Latin term, procedere, does not have "the added implication of the starting-point of that movement; thus it is used to translate a number of other Greek theological terms."[39] It is used as the Latin equivalent, in the Vulgate, of not only ἐκπορεύεσθαι, but also ἔρχεσθαι, προέρχεσθαι, προσέρχεσθαι, and προβαίνω (four times) and is used of Jesus' originating from God in John 8:42, although at that time Greek ἐκπορεύεσθαι was already beginning to designate the Holy Spirit's manner of originating from the Father as opposed to that of the Son (γέννησις — being born).
------------------------------------------------

Does anyone agree with the Greek translation and the consequential resulting meaning?

Re: Filioque - the importance of accurate translation from Greek
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2019, 05:20:44 AM »
It was my, perhaps flawed(correct me if I'm wrong), understanding that the Catholic teaching is that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father through the Son just as the proienai/ekporeuesthai distinction suggests. But that doesn't need to be what the modern Orthodox teach from what I've read.


Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Filioque - the importance of accurate translation from Greek
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2019, 05:26:04 AM »
One of the grounds of contention, between Orthodox and Catholics, that contributed to caused the great schism, is the Filioque question.

This was just an excuse that the Orthodox used to split from the Church.  Had they sat down and talked it through, they could have worked this out.

Bigger problem was that the Orthodox need to submit to the Roman Magisterium, and they refused to do so.

Re: Filioque - the importance of accurate translation from Greek
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2019, 05:50:50 AM »
This was just an excuse that the Orthodox used to split from the Church.  Had they sat down and talked it through, they could have worked this out.

Bigger problem was that the Orthodox need to submit to the Roman Magisterium, and they refused to do so.
I agree that the real motive was not the Filioque problem but a power strugle. But, pertinently to the OP, do you have an opinion?

Re: Filioque - the importance of accurate translation from Greek
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2019, 02:09:57 PM »
As I understand it, the Catholic Church is in agreement with the Filioque being taught under the Greek verbs you provided. The Orthodox however, despite some of their Fathers(including Cyril of Alexandria)teaching the Filioque, declared that the Holy Spirit comes from the Father alone in 867. This was after multiple Patriarchs of Constantinople already professed the doctrine in some form.