Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Fighting Errors in the Modern World => The Earth God Made - Flat Earth, Geocentrism => Topic started by: Matthew on April 13, 2024, 02:33:52 PM
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The idea that the Earth is just a seashell bobbing around in an infinite ocean of "outer space" is such nonsense. And it's calculated to weaken faith in God and religion, and bolster the atheistic Big Bang model of cosmology.
At the end of the Apocalypse, God says He will create "a new heaven and a new earth". Why? If you have ALL THAT REAL ESTATE, why waste your time? (with all due respect). I mean seriously -- according to science, there HAS to be an earth-like, or even BETTER than earth-like, planet out there somewhere in the Cosmos, perhaps too far away for humans to reach. EVEN IF there is no life out there besides earth (which no "official science" textbook would ever suggest). Why wouldn't God just move his Elect instantly to another great planet he made? Why even bother with this ol' Earth? Just toss it into the sun, and move on with Your (infinite) life.
And does that new heaven and new earth include a new sun? Because it would be a shame for the New Jerusalem to get swallowed up by a red giant Sun, golden streets and all!
I always used to think deep down, "Can I pass on that new heaven/earth? I'd really rather like to check out those many cool exoplanets You created millions of light years away, with my new glorified body, if You don't mind that is..."
See the problem with trying to bring atheistic religion's nonsense into the Catholic Faith? It really doesn't work.
See, like everything else, the Bible and religion seems quite silly when you try to fit it into the atheistic context of Carl Sagan's "The Cosmos", with billions of galaxies, planets, etc. And besides, you also would expect countless other civilizations, which they are ALSO programming us to believe.
Our Lord ascended into heaven. Which direction did he actually exit the ball Earth? Sideways? Upside down?
Hell is supposed to be DOWN. What, into the center of the earth? And if they go too deep into hell, they emerge in China on the other side of the "planet"? Ridiculous.
Joshua made the sun stand still. It didn't say he stopped the earth turning. And if he DID, wouldn't everything be destroyed by the sudden stop? The wind and G-forces would have been cataclysmic, and wiped out all life on earth, according to science. But Scripture says clearly: the sun stood still. I would rather take that literally, than bend over backwards to find excuses and convoluted explanations, all to defend some atheist's "billiard ball cosmos" worldview.
They have all those cross-section cutaway views of the earth's layers and core. Guess how far they've drilled down. Anybody? Answer: 7.6 miles. That's it. All the rest of that they're pulling completely out of their butt. It's not science, it's human "faith" in some bizarre science cult.
If heaven is ABOVE the firmament than Our Lord ascending UPWARDS makes sense. But what is heaven in the globe model? Outer space? No heaven there. Sorry, kids. Just a harsh, cruel vacuum. I guess mommy and daddy deceived you about the nature of the universe and world you live in.
So you see, you HAVE to call bullshit on either A) the Catholic Faith or B) the heliocentric/globe model with Carl Sagan, Einstein, Steven Hawking, Neil DeGrasse Tyson, and all the rest of those clowns. NASA can't be where the truth is; they lie too much. They've been caught in more lies and deceptions than I can count. WHY are they lying?
I choose Holy Scripture, God, and the Catholic religion. I encourage you all to do the same. But it is difficult to keep one foot in each camp. Eventually, you pick a side. May you pick the right side.
Having your WHOLE self, your life, your beliefs, your hopes and dreams ALL in one side, all in one worldview, makes for the most stability and chance of salvation. There is no need, nor is it wise, to attempt to "square the circle" and reconcile two vastly different, contradictory, competing worldviews.
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Aren't there tons of saints who believed the globe model though? I mean I lean flat earth cause it seems to align with Scripture and private revelation (think the saints describing where Hell is or Fatima) more intuitively but I think there's a bunch who don't believe that or see the conflict and are in good standing/solid saints.
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Aren't there tons of saints who believed the globe model though? I mean I lean flat earth cause it seems to align with Scripture and private revelation (think the saints describing where Hell is or Fatima) more intuitively but I think there's a bunch who don't believe that or see the conflict and are in good standing/solid saints.
Those saints could have been deceived that the earth was a ball. The Globe deception was/is pretty universal, remember...
What do you think sainthood means by the way? Do you think it means not believing a single erroneous fact? I got news for you...
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but I think there's a bunch who don't believe that or see the conflict and are in good standing/solid saints.
You think?
I'd be interested in some references.
I mean that's a pretty bold statement -- you think that various saint(s) actually believed in the NASA religion -- outer space, spinning ball planets, space travel, aliens, Theory of Relativity, the multiverse, Big Bang, molecules-to-man evolution, abiogenesis, and all that?
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You think?
I'd be interested in some references.
I mean that's a pretty bold statement -- you think that various saint(s) actually believed in the NASA religion -- outer space, spinning ball planets, space travel, aliens, Theory of Relativity, the multiverse, Big Bang, molecules-to-man evolution, abiogenesis, and all that?
No I'm not talking about NASA. Just that the earth was a ball. The molecules to man is a joke and pretty sure it's a heresy that was condemned by the Vatican at one point. Same with the big bang, multiverse etc. I'm talking just about the earth being a ball and space existing.
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No I'm not talking about NASA. Just that the earth was a ball. The molecules to man is a joke and pretty sure it's a heresy that was condemned by the Vatican at one point. Same with the big bang, multiverse etc. I'm talking just about the earth being a ball and space existing.
I consider outer space as the inside of the firmament but I don't think what we've been told about space is correct.
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It would be interesting if not mind altering to to discover the TRUTH about what is "up and out there"
where did those Voyager probes go? and all such related things.
I do enjoy science fiction, when it does not pose as science dogma.
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On a related subject this is the most ludicrous thing I've ever read: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2024/apr/23/voyager-1-transmitting-data-again-after-nasa-remotely-fixes-46-year-old-probe so you're telling me a 70s computer billions of miles away is able to receive a signal on an ancient medium (that somehow is still working) in 22hrs with no obstructions? No meteors, flares, planets etc obstruct the signal there and back? Come on
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If I remember correctly, I think the actual 'computing capacity' is no more than 1 jpeg's worth of data. From billions of miles away. Who is sitting there monitoring it, waiting for that single jpeg to come in? What will a jpeg tell us - that it's cold out there?
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If I remember correctly, I think the actual 'computing capacity' is no more than 1 jpeg's worth of data. From billions of miles away. Who is sitting there monitoring it, waiting for that single jpeg to come in? What will a jpeg tell us - that it's cold out there?
What is 1 jpeg's worth of data? I have a jpeg on my computer that is 29.5MB. 29.5MB can equate to 10-15min of high quality music, or 40-60min of medium quality speech audio. That's several floppy disks worth of information. Why don't you look up what they are trying to record? I know you won't believe them, but it's more credible than speculation.
On a related subject this is the most ludicrous thing I've ever read: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2024/apr/23/voyager-1-transmitting-data-again-after-nasa-remotely-fixes-46-year-old-probe so you're telling me a 70s computer billions of miles away is able to receive a signal on an ancient medium (that somehow is still working) in 22hrs with no obstructions? No meteors, flares, planets etc obstruct the signal there and back? Come on
70's computers still work. Maybe it's the beefy simple design that aids their durability. I can't comment on the durability of tapes though, but I don't know why they couldn't send a command for it to rewrite it's programming to correct for corruption. They likely built the components to be more durable knowing it was going into space. You can actually buy circuit board components rated for use in space. I think they are gold plated to shield from radiation. It is hard to believe it can still receive signals from that far away with old tech, and that signals from it can be heard all the way here, but maybe the new tech we have is capable of sending a strong enough signal, and capable of detecting such faint signals from it. I don't know, I don't work there and neither do you, so I won't say what is and isn't possible. Once upon a time touch screen smartphones were a certain impossibility.
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Please explain. How a guy I know, who lives on my street, who takes these photos with his telescope, gets these pictures? Are you telling me that this random guy who does this as a hobby is part of the outer space conspiracy.
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10232430841454537&set=pob.1261312087
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I plugged 'how cold is space' into google. This is what it put out:
"Space is very, very cold. The baseline temp is minus 455 degrees Fahrenheit, meaning it is barely above absolute zero, the point where molecular motion stops."
I then plugged in 'what temperature do computers stop working'. This was the result:
"Electronic devices suffer from temperature extremes. Liquid Crystal Displays (LCDs) of laptops, phones, and PDAs really do freeze. Laptops have been designed to work within a safe temperature range, typically between 50 to 95 degrees F (10 - 35 degrees C)."
Voyager 1 is a metallic, mechanical device. It has been in an environment 'where molecular motions stops' for 45 years with no break. That thing is frozen solid.
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No I'm not talking about NASA. Just that the earth was a ball. . . . I'm talking just about the earth being a ball and space existing.
Everyone grew up being taught, through the "educational" system, the controlled media (movies, tv, comic books, magazines, books, newspapers, online content) that the earth is a ball and anyone who says otherwise is a tinfoil-hat-wearing conspiracy-theorist.
Most are unable to overcome their programming.
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Please explain. How a guy I know, who lives on my street, who takes these photos with his telescope, gets these pictures? Are you telling me that this random guy who does this as a hobby is part of the outer space conspiracy.
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10232430841454537&set=pob.1261312087
Did anyone look at these pictures? They are taken from earth by a guy in his backyard. If outer space is a deception, then explain these pictures.
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Did anyone look at these pictures? They are taken from earth by a guy in his backyard. If outer space is a deception, then explain these pictures.
What we're are told about space is a deception, God's firmament is very really, and the moon, suns, stars etc are inside it.
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I plugged 'how cold is space' into google. This is what it put out:
"Space is very, very cold. The baseline temp is minus 455 degrees Fahrenheit, meaning it is barely above absolute zero, the point where molecular motion stops."
I then plugged in 'what temperature do computers stop working'. This was the result:
"Electronic devices suffer from temperature extremes. Liquid Crystal Displays (LCDs) of laptops, phones, and PDAs really do freeze. Laptops have been designed to work within a safe temperature range, typically between 50 to 95 degrees F (10 - 35 degrees C)."
Voyager 1 is a metallic, mechanical device. It has been in an environment 'where molecular motions stops' for 45 years with no break. That thing is frozen solid.
Regular computers don't need to withstand cold temps, so they are not designed for it. Supercooled electronics is a real thing to greatly enhance performance. They can design the Voyager probe to function well in very cold temps, it's just a matter of taking into account tolerances and the thermal contraction of components, and any internal heating systems needed. I think it runs on a little nuclear reactor, so that alone generates heat. Scientists are quite smart when they aren't lying for political reasons, they can figure this all out. It raises my mind to God seeing how pretty much everything imaginable is possible with the basic elements and laws of physics he created. There's probably a million different substances made out of just 3 elements.
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What we're are told about space is a deception, God's firmament is very really, and the moon, suns, stars etc are inside it.
But all of that space goes straight up from the earth? I need to see pictures of how the planets and stars hang in this flat earth scenario. I need to understand why Australia is heading into winter as we are heading into summer. Quick explanations that make logical sense. Scientific examples of why this occurs. Why some flight patterns do exist that cannot be explained by a flat earth and can only be explained by a globe earth?
Here is a video example, but I do not like his delivery at all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd-FAyHdpxI
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But all of that space goes straight up from the earth? I need to see pictures of how the planets and stars hang in this flat earth scenario. I need to understand why Australia is heading into winter as we are heading into summer. Quick explanations that make logical sense. Scientific examples of why this occurs. Why some flight patterns do exist that cannot be explained by a flat earth and can only be explained by a globe earth?
Here is a video example, but I do not like his delivery at all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd-FAyHdpxI
First I didn't mention flat earth here, a firmament is part of scripture and the father. The sky and space are not the same space.
Also Dave is not a professor and is a sophist.
To illustrate how bad Dave is, here is a debunk video on another topic by an actual scientist.
https://youtu.be/JRrTvP95kf4?si=F9-EO6iIaI6SqELs
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First I didn't mention flat earth here, a firmament is part of scripture and the father. The sky and space are not the same space.
Ok i am confused. How are the sky and space not the same space? We look in to the sky and we see stars. A random person looks into the sky and is able to take pictures of strange things that we are told are nebulas or galaxies or planets. But there is a deception? What is the deception?
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Did anyone look at these pictures? They are taken from earth by a guy in his backyard. If outer space is a deception, then explain these pictures.
One needs a facebook account to see these pictures. Could you post one or two?
I don't know when astronomers decided that stars were "distant suns" rather than just lights in the sky. The "distant sun" concept is unprovable and the notion that these "distant suns" are all moving rapidly outwards because of the big bang, should make constellations unrecognisable, yet they never change, millenium after millenium
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Did anyone look at these pictures? They are taken from earth by a guy in his backyard. If outer space is a deception, then explain these pictures.
You're reading your worldview into these pictures, as most poeple do. You've already been pre-programmed to "interpret" these things according to the modern cosmological model. We cannot tell distance of 3-dimensional shape from 2-dimensional pictures.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pH9dAbPOR6M
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But all of that space goes straight up from the earth? I need to see pictures of how the planets and stars hang in this flat earth scenario. I need to understand why Australia is heading into winter as we are heading into summer. Quick explanations that make logical sense. Scientific examples of why this occurs. Why some flight patterns do exist that cannot be explained by a flat earth and can only be explained by a globe earth?
Again, you're reading modern cosmology into what we see in the sky. Are these in fact planets and stars (in the sense of being distant suns)? You simply assume that they are.
As for the seasons, they're well explained by the FE model, as we know the sun travels between the tropic (Cancer and Capricorn) throughout the year. What doesn't make sense in the globe model is the vastly different climate between the two "poles", where Antarctica is a frozen wasteland, whereas the North at similar latitudes can be temperate and filled with wildlife and vegetation during the Northern summer.
As for flight patterns, if you actually studied them, 99% of Southern "hemisphere" flight patterns make zero sense on the globe model but only on the flat. I've seen only one claim of a flight that allegedly doesn't fit with FE model, but that one can easily be explained. There are many videos of bizarre "emegency landings" that had to take place that make 0 sense on a globe model but perfect sense on an FE model, and the emergency landings are a great indicator because they have to come down ASAP in those scenarios and can't simply fake the route.
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They can design the Voyager probe to function well in very cold temps ...
Not in the 1970s they couldn't, and they also couldn't produce technology required to got to the moon in the 1960s either ... so the faked the moon landing. Just remember what kinds of junk cars people were driving in the 1960s and 1970s.
I worked at NASA and often participated in radiation/temperature testing of electronic components, and even with today's technology, 90% of the tech they claimed was resistant to radiation and extreme temperatures failed the tests miserably, and this was in the early 2000s, not in the 1970s.
And this is to say nothing of the fact that it's the height of absurdity to pretend that Voyager can beam meaningful signals back to earth using a 23 watt radio ... from allegedly 24 billion miles away. That signal would be so dispersed over those distances that it could not contain any meaningful data (similar to the absurd claim that Webb is beaming high-definition data from a million miles away). In real practice, the higher bandwidth you get, the more concentrated the signal has to be and the more power you need to send it. If we could beam high definition data across millions of miles, cell phone companies would have gotten rid of the cell towers they have to build every mile or two a LONG time ago, to say nothing of the absurdity of hitting the target with a high bandwidth signal from a million miles that would be so tiny as to be imperceptible ... WHILE the earth is allegedly rotating at (an average of) 700 MPH AND revolving around the sun at over 6,000 MPH. You'd be a great shot if you could hit something the size of a jar lid from 100 yards away. Now move it to a mile away, and then to 1,000 miles ... and you're not even close to the proportions we're talking about from million miles away. And now put the target into motion at 6,000 MPH.
You recently had a company set a record for high-bandwidth transmission at about 230 miles (across the Mediterranean), and they had to use line of sight microwave signals, since you need a very concentrated (and therefore line of sight) beam to carry high-bandwidth data. Now try to send high-bandwidth data over a MILLION miles. To get high bandwith, you need a concentrated, tight, and therefore line of sight signal ... and I'm sure we're getting that from Webb at about a million miles away, as the earth rotates 700MPH and flies around the sun at 6000MPH. Suuure. Of course, on a side note, at 230 miles (with the aforementioned microwave signal across the Mediterrean), it couldn't have been line of sight on a globe, since the target (150 foot towers) would have been obscured by 8 miles of curvature bulge.
Back in the day when we hard our rabbit-ear antennas, and then even the small dishes, to get a decent TV signal from most stations, you had to point the in just the right direction and just at the right angle to have some stations come in ... and that's when the transmitters were about 20 miles away, much less 24 billion.
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Regarding radio transmission, the variables involved with its use on earth are much different than what's involved using it in space. Almost an apples to oranges comparison.
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Did anyone look at these pictures? They are taken from earth by a guy in his backyard. If outer space is a deception, then explain these pictures.
May I quote from the guy in his backyard:
I was able to image M42, the Orion Nebula. Unfortunately, I could only get 33 minutes of data from the system (since my Seestar has had horrible tracking issues), but it was enough that I could still process the data and have some decent detail in the image... and I came up with this! I processed this imaging data with PixInsight, Photoshop, and Irfanview
He did not say, I photographed M42. He says he imaged M42, that he could "process the data" and that he used some software like photoshop to come up with that image. Only the author of that image could explain it.
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May I quote from the guy in his backyard:
He did not say, I photographed M42. He says he imaged M42, that he could "process the data" and that he used some software like photoshop to come up with that image. Only the author of that image could explain it.
Everytime
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One needs a facebook account to see these pictures. Could you post one or two?
I don't know when astronomers decided that stars were "distant suns" rather than just lights in the sky. The "distant sun" concept is unprovable and the notion that these "distant suns" are all moving rapidly outwards because of the big bang, should make constellations unrecognisable, yet they never change, millenium after millenium
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Regarding radio transmission, the variables involved with its use on earth are much different than what's involved using it in space. Almost an apples to oranges comparison.
No, it's about the angles at distances. You just make stuff up, don't you? Whatever sounds good that you can latch on to with your confirmation bias. Radio waves get weaker over distance because they spread outward from their source. It's very similar to how light works, also in waves. There's something referred to as the inverse square law that applies to anything that moves in waves, whether it be light or sound.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/inverse-square-law
Radio waves, a type of electromagnetic radiation, follow the inverse square law, which means the intensity of radio waves decreases inversely with the square of the distance from the transmitter. For example, if you are 100 meters away from a radio transmitter, the intensity of the radio wave will be one-tenth as strong as it is if you are 10 meters away.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSq2JJKILSWfmCBLlc8ocp1VNb21kblzhOKkhbEBuyjgA&s)
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It's comical.
Atheist scientists are lying and/or wrong about the origin of the universe, God, religion, the Bible, the nature of Man, the existence of aliens, possibility of time travel or sentient AI, and countless other fundamental errors.
And they've been caught lying more times than I can count. And their lies and errors *couldn't get* larger or more fundamental: existence of "dark matter", the Theory of Relativity, etc.
"But by gum, they are telling the honest truth about the shape of the earth and "outer space"! It's the Bible that's being poetic, wrong, etc."
How can one BE so dense? Stockholm syndrome much? It's like a battered wife deceiving herself to justify her abuser. It's pathological.
THESE SAME SCIENTISTS -- if you trust them -- have a LOT MORE they expect you to believe. Why do you stop short? What justification have you?
I'll tell you what though: you can't serve two masters. Eventually you're going to cut the rope and cast off atheistic science completely -- OR religion. The two can't be served long-term. Our Lord said so, not me.
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No, it's about the angles at distances. You just make stuff up, don't you? Whatever sounds good that you can latch on to with your confirmation bias. Radio waves get weaker over distance because they spread outward from their source. It's very similar to how light works, also in waves. There's something referred to as the inverse square law that applies to anything that moves in waves, whether it be light or sound.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/inverse-square-law
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSq2JJKILSWfmCBLlc8ocp1VNb21kblzhOKkhbEBuyjgA&s)
And you tend to oversimplify stuff. It's so much easier that way. It's so much easier to be novus ordo than consider the complexities of viewing the current situation in the church in the light of tradition. It's so much easier to believe there is no pope. It's so much easier to be protestant and just believe in Jesus, be baptized and sin all you want. It's easier to just be a careless atheist sheep.
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So what are those pictures of? Are you implying because his software couldn't track properly it is faked? The way I think this photography works is that it takes many snapshots in a time period and then those images are combined together and rendered to create the photo you see. Granted I am guessing.
It is also could be that shutter on the camera has to stay open for a lengthy amount of time to capture the image. The computer is just used to make the photo more crisp from all the shaking of the camera. Again I am guessing.
Why does Saturn appear like a globe and Earth is not a globe? Please direct me to a FE model that shows how the stars planets and all hang in the sky in relation to this flat earth. Are you implying that we are in like a snow globe? Doesn't that put limitations on God? Why can't God create a vast Universe for us to discover? I really don't know why I bother. I mean really the fact people like to argue these things is silly. God isn't going to say oh you thought my Universe is (fill in the blank), you are going to hell. You need to believe in God and follow his rules. It is just that simple. Science is just what humans do to figure out what God already put into place.
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Not in the 1970s they couldn't, and they also couldn't produce technology required to got to the moon in the 1960s either ... so the faked the moon landing. Just remember what kinds of junk cars people were driving in the 1960s and 1970s.
I worked at NASA and often participated in radiation/temperature testing of electronic components, and even with today's technology, 90% of the tech they claimed was resistant to radiation and extreme temperatures failed the tests miserably, and this was in the early 2000s, not in the 1970s.
And this is to say nothing of the fact that it's the height of absurdity to pretend that Voyager can beam meaningful signals back to earth using a 23 watt radio ... from allegedly 24 billion miles away. That signal would be so dispersed over those distances that it could not contain any meaningful data (similar to the absurd claim that Webb is beaming high-definition data from a million miles away). In real practice, the higher bandwidth you get, the more concentrated the signal has to be and the more power you need to send it. If we could beam high definition data across millions of miles, cell phone companies would have gotten rid of the cell towers they have to build every mile or two a LONG time ago, to say nothing of the absurdity of hitting the target with a high bandwidth signal from a million miles that would be so tiny as to be imperceptible ... WHILE the earth is allegedly rotating at (an average of) 700 MPH AND revolving around the sun at over 6,000 MPH. You'd be a great shot if you could hit something the size of a jar lid from 100 yards away. Now move it to a mile away, and then to 1,000 miles ... and you're not even close to the proportions we're talking about from million miles away. And now put the target into motion at 6,000 MPH.
You recently had a company set a record for high-bandwidth transmission at about 230 miles (across the Mediterranean), and they had to use line of sight microwave signals, since you need a very concentrated (and therefore line of sight) beam to carry high-bandwidth data. Now try to send high-bandwidth data over a MILLION miles. To get high bandwith, you need a concentrated, tight, and therefore line of sight signal ... and I'm sure we're getting that from Webb at about a million miles away, as the earth rotates 700MPH and flies around the sun at 6000MPH. Suuure. Of course, on a side note, at 230 miles (with the aforementioned microwave signal across the Mediterrean), it couldn't have been line of sight on a globe, since the target (150 foot towers) would have been obscured by 8 miles of curvature bulge.
Back in the day when we hard our rabbit-ear antennas, and then even the small dishes, to get a decent TV signal from most stations, you had to point the in just the right direction and just at the right angle to have some stations come in ... and that's when the transmitters were about 20 miles away, much less 24 billion.
Not to nitpick, but viewers almost never use "dishes" for terrestrial TV reception, those are just for satellites. I say "almost" because there is one type of TV antenna, a UHF parabolic reflector, which is sometimes used by people in remote areas to pick up stations from 80-120 miles away (I have one):
(https://i.imgur.com/hhD1WZF.png)
They are 6 to 7 feet tall, and operate by concentrating the TV signal into a center point, which is then reflected onto a small grid, and then reflected back onto the antenna itself, which in the picture above (not my dish, but one similar to it) consists of two things that look like bow ties. They are also sometimes used by cable TV companies (which is where mine came from). You can even envelop the "ribs" with chicken wire cut to size and then shaped and fastened onto the frame (makes the dish very heavy!).
Full-power TV signals typically get about 60 miles out from the transmitter, with the area from 60 to 80+ miles being a "fringe area", and anything further out from that being just the "luck of the draw". The maximum, under normal conditions, that a TV signal can get out, is about 120 miles. Freak atmospheric conditions can cause signals to get out hundreds of miles beyond that, just the other morning, I was getting random signals (with another antenna, not the dish) from 300-400 miles away.
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So what are those pictures of? Are you implying because his software couldn't track properly it is faked? The way I think this photography works is that it takes many snapshots in a time period and then those images are combined together and rendered to create the photo you see. Granted I am guessing.
It is also could be that shutter on the camera has to stay open for a lengthy amount of time to capture the image. The computer is just used to make the photo more crisp from all the shaking of the camera. Again I am guessing.
Why does Saturn appear like a globe and Earth is not a globe? Please direct me to a FE model that shows how the stars planets and all hang in the sky in relation to this flat earth. Are you implying that we are in like a snow globe? Doesn't that put limitations on God? Why can't God create a vast Universe for us to discover? I really don't know why I bother. I mean really the fact people like to argue these things is silly. God isn't going to say oh you thought my Universe is (fill in the blank), you are going to hell. You need to believe in God and follow his rules. It is just that simple. Science is just what humans do to figure out what God already put into place.
Well, truth matters. Not only the Catechism, but everything that is truth is of our interest.
If God cared enough to put some cosmology in the book of Genesis, it means that it has some importance.
It seems to me that to imagine that we are on a blue ball that floats on a endless black space makes us distant from God. On the other hand, if we believe that the world has some kind of roof (the firmament) and that Our Lord and Our Lady and all the saints and angels are watching us, it somehow makes us more aware of God. It does to me anyway.
Of course that are many saints who did not bother to investigate if the Earth was round or flat, and they are in Heaven anyway.
If it works for you, it is just as good. But other people might benefit from this kind of knowledge. It has certainly been good to me to think about this kind of thing.
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Well, truth matters. Not only the Catechism, but everything that is truth is of our interest.
If God cared enough to put some cosmology in the book of Genesis, it means that it has some importance.
It seems to me that to imagine that we are on a blue ball that floats on a endless black space makes us distant from God. On the other hand, if we believe that the world has some kind of roof (the firmament) and that Our Lord and Our Lady and all the saints and angels are watching us, it somehow makes us more aware of God. It does to me anyway.
Of course that are many saints who did not bother to investigate if the Earth was round or flat, and they are in Heaven anyway.
If it works for you, it is just as good. But other people might benefit from this kind of knowledge. It has certainly been good to me to think about this kind of thing.
So we can agree that if a vast amazing discoverable universe makes me feel closer to God's Awesomeness and a flat earth with the Saints looking at us like a snow globe makes you feel God's Awesomeness, then it doesn't really matter which one is right. Only God knows that, and as long as we are contemplating God. All is good.
But now we have relativism. Now what?
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It seems to me that to imagine that we are on a blue ball that floats on a endless black space makes us distant from God. On the other hand, if we believe that the world has some kind of roof (the firmament) and that Our Lord and Our Lady and all the saints and angels are watching us, it somehow makes us more aware of God. It does to me anyway.
To me it seems absurd that a pure spirit could be physically far away. The Pure Spirit who knows every speck of dust at all times. Such an expanse is fitting for God's creation.
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God and the Angels are right here with us everyday. If the earth is a globe or flat it doesn't really matter for our Salvation. But us silly humans want to pick the right team and then we battle it out. And while we battle we miss an opportunity to walk in the park, visit a cemetery, or call a friend because we had the inspiration.
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So we can agree that if a vast amazing discoverable universe makes me feel closer to God's Awesomeness and a flat earth with the Saints looking at us like a snow globe makes you feel God's Awesomeness, then it doesn't really matter which one is right. Only God knows that, and as long as we are contemplating God. All is good.
But now we have relativism. Now what?
I am not sure, but I heard that there are saints who were for the Flat Earth, and saints that were for the Globe. Both kinds are in Heaven.
Some people who know better than me say that Heliocentrism is heresy.
I have not personally researched this topics, but I don't think that the relativism label applies here.
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So we can agree that if a vast amazing discoverable universe makes me feel closer to God's Awesomeness and a flat earth with the Saints looking at us like a snow globe makes you feel God's Awesomeness, then it doesn't really matter which one is right. Only God knows that, and as long as we are contemplating God. All is good.
But now we have relativism. Now what?
Objective reality is part of Catholic teaching, as is love of the truth.
Differing opinions are part of life, but are not the same as relativism, which says that each man is his own little god and determines his own truth.
As Catholics we seek the truth (aka objective reality) which may include reevaluating falsehoods which dominate and shape our current culture.
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God and the Angels are right here with us everyday. If the earth is a globe or flat it doesn't really matter for our Salvation. But us silly humans want to pick the right team and then we battle it out. And while we battle we miss an opportunity to walk in the park, visit a cemetery, or call a friend because we had the inspiration.
The battle for souls is important in a time of apostasy, a time when "if it were possible even the elect may be deceived."
Those who have fallen for the lies of evolution theory, globe earth theory, outer space theory, the earth is only one of millions of other planets theory, etc. are vulnerable to the coming fake alien deception. Forewarned is forearmed.
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If the earth is a globe or flat it doesn't really matter for our Salvation.
Maybe it doesn't matter for yours, but there are billions who have fallen outside the path that might even begin to lead to salvation on accoutnt of the fraud that is modern science. Without the Big Bang giant swirling universe cosmology, evolution completely falls apart. There are a number of (high profile) FEs who were atheists when the first came to believe in FE who then found religion (albeit not [yet] the true one, but at least they're a step closer). Why? Because if we live on a flat earth covered by a firmament, Intelligent Design is absolutely unavoidable. It could not have evolved from swirling masses of matter.
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Maybe it doesn't matter for yours, but there are billions who have fallen outside the path that might even begin to lead to salvation on accoutnt of the fraud that is modern science. Without the Big Bang giant swirling universe cosmology, evolution completely falls apart. There are a number of (high profile) FEs who were atheists when the first came to believe in FE who then found religion (albeit not [yet] the true one, but at least they're a step closer). Why? Because if we live on a flat earth covered by a firmament, Intelligent Design is absolutely unavoidable. It could not have evolved from swirling masses of matter.
I agree everything we see was put their by God, but God put many things into the world for humans to discover. We didn't start out making metal objects. We didn't start out making computers. People 1000 years ago didn't even have imaginations for computers.
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I agree everything we see was put their by God, but God put many things into the world for humans to discover. We didn't start out making metal objects. We didn't start out making computers. People 1000 years ago didn't even have imaginations for computers.
How did we cut our hair and nails without metal objects? Metallurgy, like speech and writing are probably available to man since the fall, around 6000 years ago and certainly since the flood approximately 4,400 years ago.
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I really hate to hear "What does it matter?" about any truth on CathInfo. That's the whole point of this forum, to discuss and figure out the truths in our physical world. From wars, to fαℓѕє fℓαgs, to cօռspιʀαcιҽs, to health topics like vaccines and covid. And figuring out the TRUTH about what's going on in the world, between various news reports, half of which contradict each other. In this category also goes the Church today, after Vatican II -- i.e., the Crisis in the Church.
As the young'uns say, "How to say "I don't belong on CathInfo" without saying "I don't belong on CathInfo". Lack of interest in the truth.
If you're busy with family -- GO TO YOUR FAMILY. If you have bigger fish to fry, then PLEASE, GO FRY THEM. You shouldn't be spending time on CathInfo that you don't have. Come back when you have time/interest to figure out and seize the truth on some topic.
But the Faith itself, the supernatural truth, truths about God, Catholic morality we already have 100% clear-cut certainty about, being Traditional Catholics. We just refer to any pre-Vatican II docuмents, the Catechism, etc. Matters of the Faith, dogma, etc. can't be the main topic on CathInfo or it would be a VERY boring forum.
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I agree everything we see was put their by God, but God put many things into the world for humans to discover. We didn't start out making metal objects. We didn't start out making computers. People 1000 years ago didn't even have imaginations for computers.
You do realize that computers wouldn't survive more than a couple hundred years if humans disappeared. If they had tablets, laptops, and the Internet before the Flood, we would never know it. You'd be surprised how little of New York City would even exist 1,000 years later, recognizable or not, if all human beings disappeared tomorrow.
Go watch the docuмentary series "Life after People" to see what I mean. Pretty much only stone monuments would last longer.
And yes, men have known metalworking since DAY ONE. Since the FIRST HUMAN. If you believe in cavemen, I can't help you. Men did not evolve from apes. They were always rational creatures, having language, agriculture, medicine, planning ahead, metalworking, proper housing, bathing, you name it.
Source: Holy Scripture
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How did we cut our hair and nails without metal objects? Metallurgy, like speech and writing are probably available to man since the fall, around 6000 years ago and certainly since the flood approximately 4,400 years ago.
Sorry I didn't think that one through. Let me be clear I believe in creation, not evolution. My point is that whatever we had before the flood is moot, because only so much knowledge was brought on Noah's Arc. Automobiles have only been in existence for a little over 100 year and planes less. Technological developments take time and didn't happen overnight. Men innovate, but where do these inspirations come from? I think some of these innovations have gone off the rails because the changes of Vatican 2 stopped the moral compass that the Catholic Church regulated. Maybe as a whole society has become dumber and more gullible. I don't know. What I do know is that no one here has been able to give me satisfactory answers to proove that the earth is flat. And my mathematician science focused husband agrees.
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The battle for souls is important in a time of apostasy, a time when "if it were possible even the elect may be deceived."
Those who have fallen for the lies of evolution theory, globe earth theory, outer space theory, the earth is only one of millions of other planets theory, etc. are vulnerable to the coming fake alien deception. Forewarned is forearmed.
Indeed.
Those souls (saints) centuries past who didn't have to worry about globe vs. flat earth, aren't living in today's times.
Today we have "Science!" vs. all religion. And "Science! (TM)" has the upper hand as far as power goes, let's be real.
Once they are crowned kings, priests, of our society, your children will accept everything else they preach/teach: evolution, aliens, sentient AI, and all other sorts of nonsense. Which WILL VERY MUCH affect their salvation, because it will affect their faith. It will destroy their faith. And that has a huge bearing on salvation, don't you think?
Or after they are brainwashed into worshiping "Science!", they will take the next Jab and die within a short time of massive seizures, blood clots, etc. Now what? This stuff is REAL. Truth MATTERS. Now more than ever.
(Note: Science is the study of the laws and processes of God's creation. "Science!" is an atheistic dogma-based religion masquerading as science, complete with a priesthood, list of heresies, and Index of Forbidden Books. I kid you not! One of the acts of faith, or ejaculations, in this new religion is: "I fucking LOVE Science!" another mantra is "Trust the Science!" also "The Science! is settled!")
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How did we cut our hair and nails without metal objects? Metallurgy, like speech and writing are probably available to man since the fall, around 6000 years ago and certainly since the flood approximately 4,400 years ago.
Good point.
The Bronze Age is a historical period lasting from approximately 3300 to 1200 BC. It is characterized by the use of bronze (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze), the use of writing in some areas, and other features of early urban civilization (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilization). The Bronze Age is the middle principal period of the three-age system (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-age_system), between the Stone (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_Age) and Iron Ages (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Age).[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Age#cite_note-Britannica-1) This system was proposed in 1836 by Christian Jürgensen Thomsen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Jürgensen_Thomsen) for classifying and studying ancient societies and history. Worldwide, the Bronze Age generally followed the Neolithic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neolithic) period, with the Chalcolithic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalcolithic) serving as a transition.
The periodisation of the Bronze Age is generally ended with the Late Bronze Age collapse (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Bronze_Age_collapse), a time of widespread societal collapse (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Societal_collapse) between c. 1200 and 1150 BC. This collapse affected a large area of the Eastern Mediterranean (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Mediterranean), including North Africa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Africa) and Southeast Europe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeast_Europe), as well as the Near East (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_East), in particular Egypt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Egypt), eastern Libya (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Libya), the Balkans (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkans), the Aegean (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegean_Sea#History), Anatolia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatolia), and the Caucasus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasus). It was sudden, violent, and culturally disruptive for many Bronze Age civilizations, and it brought a sharp economic decline to regional powers, most notably ushering in the Greek Dark Ages (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Dark_Ages).
An ancient civilization is deemed to be part of the Bronze Age if it either produced bronze by smelting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smelting) its own copper (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper) and alloying (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alloy) it with tin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin), arsenic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenic), or other metals, or traded other items for bronze from producing areas elsewhere.
Bronze Age civilizations gained a technological advantage due to bronze's harder and more durable properties than other metals available at the time. While terrestrial iron (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron) is naturally abundant, the higher temperature required for smelting, 1,250 °C (2,280 °F), in addition to the greater difficulty of working with the metal, placed it out of reach of common use until the end of the second millennium BC. Tin's lower melting point of 232 °C (450 °F) and copper's relatively moderate melting point of 1,085 °C (1,985 °F) placed both these metals within the capabilities of Neolithic pottery (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pottery) kilns (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiln), which date back to 6,000 BC and were able to produce temperatures of at least 900 °C (1,650 °F).[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Age#cite_note-IIIDorn2006-2) Copper and tin ores are rare since there were no tin bronzes in West Asia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Asia) before trading in bronze began in the 3rd millennium BC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3rd_millennium_BC).
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Objective reality is part of Catholic teaching, as is love of the truth.
Differing opinions are part of life, but are not the same as relativism, which says that each man is his own little god and determines his own truth.
As Catholics we seek the truth (aka objective reality) which may include reevaluating falsehoods which dominate and shape our current culture.
This makes sense. Relativism was the wrong word. I am sorry but I have tendency to pick words I think work to find out later by discussion that it really is not what I meant.
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The idea that the Earth is just a seashell bobbing around in an infinite ocean of "outer space" is such nonsense. And it's calculated to weaken faith in God and religion, and bolster the atheistic Big Bang model of cosmology.
At the end of the Apocalypse, God says He will create "a new heaven and a new earth". Why? If you have ALL THAT REAL ESTATE, why waste your time? (with all due respect). I mean seriously -- according to science, there HAS to be an earth-like, or even BETTER than earth-like, planet out there somewhere in the Cosmos, perhaps too far away for humans to reach. EVEN IF there is no life out there besides earth (which no "official science" textbook would ever suggest). Why wouldn't God just move his Elect instantly to another great planet he made? Why even bother with this ol' Earth? Just toss it into the sun, and move on with Your (infinite) life.
And does that new heaven and new earth include a new sun? Because it would be a shame for the New Jerusalem to get swallowed up by a red giant Sun, golden streets and all!
I always used to think deep down, "Can I pass on that new heaven/earth? I'd really rather like to check out those many cool exoplanets You created millions of light years away, with my new glorified body, if You don't mind that is..."
See the problem with trying to bring atheistic religion's nonsense into the Catholic Faith? It really doesn't work.
See, like everything else, the Bible and religion seems quite silly when you try to fit it into the atheistic context of Carl Sagan's "The Cosmos", with billions of galaxies, planets, etc. And besides, you also would expect countless other civilizations, which they are ALSO programming us to believe.
Our Lord ascended into heaven. Which direction did he actually exit the ball Earth? Sideways? Upside down?
Hell is supposed to be DOWN. What, into the center of the earth? And if they go too deep into hell, they emerge in China on the other side of the "planet"? Ridiculous.
Joshua made the sun stand still. It didn't say he stopped the earth turning. And if he DID, wouldn't everything be destroyed by the sudden stop? The wind and G-forces would have been cataclysmic, and wiped out all life on earth, according to science. But Scripture says clearly: the sun stood still. I would rather take that literally, than bend over backwards to find excuses and convoluted explanations, all to defend some atheist's "billiard ball cosmos" worldview.
They have all those cross-section cutaway views of the earth's layers and core. Guess how far they've drilled down. Anybody? Answer: 7.6 miles. That's it. All the rest of that they're pulling completely out of their butt. It's not science, it's human "faith" in some bizarre science cult.
If heaven is ABOVE the firmament than Our Lord ascending UPWARDS makes sense. But what is heaven in the globe model? Outer space? No heaven there. Sorry, kids. Just a harsh, cruel vacuum. I guess mommy and daddy deceived you about the nature of the universe and world you live in.
So you see, you HAVE to call bullshit on either A) the Catholic Faith or B) the heliocentric/globe model with Carl Sagan, Einstein, Steven Hawking, Neil DeGrasse Tyson, and all the rest of those clowns. NASA can't be where the truth is; they lie too much. They've been caught in more lies and deceptions than I can count. WHY are they lying?
I choose Holy Scripture, God, and the Catholic religion. I encourage you all to do the same. But it is difficult to keep one foot in each camp. Eventually, you pick a side. May you pick the right side.
Having your WHOLE self, your life, your beliefs, your hopes and dreams ALL in one side, all in one worldview, makes for the most stability and chance of salvation. There is no need, nor is it wise, to attempt to "square the circle" and reconcile two vastly different, contradictory, competing worldviews.
Absolutely. Been a flat-earther since 2015 and have been pretty open about my views. Strangely (and maybe fortunately), less people seem to balk over it these days
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On a related subject this is the most ludicrous thing I've ever read: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2024/apr/23/voyager-1-transmitting-data-again-after-nasa-remotely-fixes-46-year-old-probe so you're telling me a 70s computer billions of miles away is able to receive a signal on an ancient medium (that somehow is still working) in 22hrs with no obstructions? No meteors, flares, planets etc obstruct the signal there and back? Come on
The astronauts called Houston from the moon on a land line. :cowboy:
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Ok i am confused. How are the sky and space not the same space? We look in to the sky and we see stars. A random person looks into the sky and is able to take pictures of strange things that we are told are nebulas or galaxies or planets. But there is a deception? What is the deception?
"Planets" are also stars. Says so In Scripture somewhere. Have you ever seen a random star through a telescope? They look crazier than "planets", like a rave in Heaven.
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The battle for souls is important in a time of apostasy, a time when "if it were possible even the elect may be deceived."
Those who have fallen for the lies of evolution theory, globe earth theory, outer space theory, the earth is only one of millions of other planets theory, etc. are vulnerable to the coming fake alien deception. Forewarned is forearmed.
This. Our alien-obsessed glowbots are banking on it.