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Author Topic: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis  (Read 12660 times)

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Offline Miser Peccator

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Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
« Reply #285 on: July 14, 2023, 01:02:15 PM »
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  • I don't have much to add to what you have already found in Wikipedia.  "Around the 4th to 3rd centuries BCE the Greeks, under the influence of Aristotle who argued that the heavens must be perfect and that a sphere was the perfect geometrical figure, exchanged this for a spherical Earth surrounded by solid spheres. This became the dominant model in the Classical and Medieval world-view..."

    They believed that "firmament" referred to multiple clear solid spheres around a spherical earth which held the heavenly bodies. 



    Do you know of any modern day geocentrists who hold to that model of clear solid spheres around a spherical earth which hold the heavenly bodies?
    I exposed AB Vigano's public meetings with Crowleyan Satanist Dugin so I ask protection on myself family friends priest, under the Blood of Jesus Christ and mantle of the Blessed Virgin Mary! If harm comes to any of us may that embolden the faithful to speak out all the more so Catholics are not deceived.



    [fon


    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #286 on: July 14, 2023, 01:25:01 PM »
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  • Condemning heliocentrism is a separate issue from belief in the shape of the world.  "Every single person"...what a statement.
    I am making the reasonable assumption that the popes, the members of the Holy Office, etc. inolved in condemning heliocentrism were educated at a Catholic university.  That was the norm for anyone who held high positions in the Church.  These universities all taught that the earth is a sphere. Think of it as a syllogism:

    Globe earth was accepted by all educated people. 
    Those who condemned heliocentrism were educated people.
    Therefore, those who condemned heliocentrism accepted that the earth is a globe.

    BTW, St. Robert Bellarmine not only attended a Catholic university, he taught an astronomy class at one.  


    Offline Tradman

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #287 on: July 14, 2023, 01:25:07 PM »
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  • Not only are we without proof that anyone in authority during the Galileo Affair thought the earth was a globe, there is some proof none of them were convinced earth was a globe. 

    From Galileo historian AA Martinez from the book Burned Alive

    Pg 135 and 136

      Furthermore, Bellarmine reasserted traditional interpretations of scriptures. So he denied the Earth’s motion. In 1611 Bellarmine quoted Psalm 103:5 from the Latin Vulgate, that God established the Earth on its foundations, it cannot be moved forever and ever’. Bellarmine commented that God put Earth in the centre of the world, and that its ‘weight rests on its eternal stability’.159 He also 136 burned alive quoted Psalm 118:8, that God ‘established the Earth and permanently’. Bellarmine explained this phrase: ‘it almost says that you [God] established the Earth immovable, and it always remains immobile.’ He added: ‘God ordained, on the contrary, that heaven or the Sun move always.’160 These statements matter, because they show Bellarmine truly believed that the Earth does not move. So, its motion was not one of the questions he sent to the Collegio Romano. He only asked about the telescopic phenomena Galileo had described. The Earth’s motion had been censured by the consultors of the Inquisition in the works of Bruno. Strangely, historians hardly ever mention this key point when discussing Galileo. 


    Here we see that not only did Bellarmine not believe earth moves, he believed God established the earth on its foundations. No glober even remotely suggests earth has foundations as it's hanging or twirling around in space.  Bellarmine and the Pope also agreed that earth is covered by the firmament with water above the firmament.  No outer space.  

    The following is found in the sixth argument against Galileo which led to the condemnation of heliocentric theory.  

    Sixth Argument 
    According to Genesis 1, there are waters in heaven above the firmament and beneath it. ‘Therefore the Earth’s Water is not contained only in the solidity of the Earth, and consequently the natural place of the Earth is not the centre, but possibly, outside it and carried in circular motion in a Great Orb.’  

    More from Martinez


    pg217
    Antipodes
      Inchofer cited Lactantius and Augustine for having criticized the theory of the antipodes. In City of God, Augustine denied the antipodes as a ‘fable’ that had not been proved, because, he said, even if the Earth indeed were spherical, one would have to prove that it has lands throughout, not just bare waters, plus, one would have to prove that there were people there, and descended from Adam.224 Augustine preferred biblical and historical evidence over scientific conjectures. Similarly, Inchofer argued that the Earth’s motion was imaginary and false.

    Obviously, the theologian, Inchofer, who summed up the entire Affair, as well as the thoughts of the Pope and Bellarmine, showed they were not convinced earth is a globe.    




    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #288 on: July 14, 2023, 01:26:38 PM »
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  • Do you know of any modern day geocentrists who hold to that model of clear solid spheres around a spherical earth which hold the heavenly bodies?
    No I don't but this is not an area I have studied, so this does not mean they don't exist.  Sorry I can't be more help.

    Offline Miser Peccator

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #289 on: July 14, 2023, 01:50:41 PM »
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  • No I don't but this is not an area I have studied, so this does not mean they don't exist.  Sorry I can't be more help.


    Yeah, I have never heard any ball earth proponent hold that view.

    So somewhere along the line the firmament seems to have vanished...

    It appears to have started with Bruno:


    1584 Giordano Bruno proposed a cosmology without a firmament: an infinite universe in which the stars are actually suns with their own planetary systems.


    So along with what Tradman posted we seemed to have lost along the way:

    1.  The solid firmament as define by Sacred Scripture (Raquia)

    2.  The foundation of the earth again from SS and confirmed by St Bellarmine

    3.  The notion of upside down people under the earth (antipodes) as ruled out by St Augustine.



    From what I've heard from modern geocentrists they usually hold to

    a motionless ball earth

    that is suspended in space

    and no real definition of a firmament other than clouds and sky which is not in accordance with SS (raquia) or the Church Fathers

    no waters above and waters below the firmament

    and upside down people underneath (the antipodes) which is not in accordance with St Augustine.


    I exposed AB Vigano's public meetings with Crowleyan Satanist Dugin so I ask protection on myself family friends priest, under the Blood of Jesus Christ and mantle of the Blessed Virgin Mary! If harm comes to any of us may that embolden the faithful to speak out all the more so Catholics are not deceived.



    [fon


    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #290 on: July 14, 2023, 02:17:38 PM »
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  • Yeah, I have never heard any ball earth proponent hold that view.

    So somewhere along the line the firmament seems to have vanished...
    Have you tried asking the poster cassini?  He is a very knowledgeable geocentrist who accepts globe earth.

    Offline Miser Peccator

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #291 on: July 14, 2023, 02:26:38 PM »
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  • Have you tried asking the poster cassini?  He is a very knowledgeable geocentrist who accepts globe earth.



    Yes, he is a very good researcher and I asked him before which you can see here:

    https://www.cathinfo.com/the-earth-god-made-flat-earth-geocentrism/cosmology-poll/msg856831/#msg856831



    He doesn't seem to hold to the concept of Raquia.  I posted several of the many references to the firmament from Sacred Scripture (it's referred to 23 times) and asked him questions because to me they all seem to indicate the same as the Church Fathers which is a solid structure in accordance with the Hebrew etymology.


    From what I can gather, his model also doesn't account for the foundation of the earth (Bellarmine) and appears to contradict St Augustine with regards to the antipodes.


    I exposed AB Vigano's public meetings with Crowleyan Satanist Dugin so I ask protection on myself family friends priest, under the Blood of Jesus Christ and mantle of the Blessed Virgin Mary! If harm comes to any of us may that embolden the faithful to speak out all the more so Catholics are not deceived.



    [fon

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #292 on: July 14, 2023, 10:46:51 PM »
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  • I have read the entire Bible several times.  I have also studied certain sections in depth.  For example, I took a course (to meet a Hebrew requirement) that involved translating and exegeting various passages from Genesis from the original Hebrew, including the first three chapters which describe Creation.
    Which version of hebrew was used here?


    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #293 on: July 14, 2023, 11:18:53 PM »
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  • Globe earth was accepted by all educated people. 
    Vaccines are accepted by all 'educated' people.

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #294 on: July 15, 2023, 08:43:31 AM »
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  • Which version of hebrew was used here?
    My university offered both modern and biblical Hebrew, but the requirement for the degree I was interested in would only accept biblical. The other language requirements, if you are interested, were Koine Greek, Latin, French and German. 

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #295 on: July 15, 2023, 09:40:44 AM »
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  • My university offered both modern and biblical Hebrew, but the requirement for the degree I was interested in would only accept biblical. The other language requirements, if you are interested, were Koine Greek, Latin, French and German.
    Hmmmm I thought modern hebrew and biblical hebrew were the same. Due to the Jєωs altering their scripture after Christ came, to remove references to Him.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #296 on: July 15, 2023, 10:06:33 AM »
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  • Globe earth was accepted by all educated people. 

    I'm not sure I buy this anymore.  More I look at it, the more it seems like propaganda mean to promote the notion that anyone who was anyone since the time of the Ancient Greeks believed in the ball earth, and only uneducated ignoramuses believed the earth was Flat.

    Online Marulus Fidelis

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #297 on: July 15, 2023, 10:53:18 AM »
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  • Vaccines are accepted by all 'educated' people.
    Germ theory, evolution, vaccines, that the Vatican II sect is the Catholic Church, official 9/11 story, h0Ɩ0h0αx, etc., etc.

    Most "educated people" don't care enough to find out the truth about any of these matters.

    And anyway, even if it was true that most people believed in the globe since the greeks, what of it? With the advent of new technology we have now proven the firmament exists and disproven boats disappearing and debunked the curve.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #298 on: July 15, 2023, 11:09:44 AM »
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  • Germ theory, evolution, vaccines, that the Vatican II sect is the Catholic Church, official 9/11 story, h0Ɩ0h0αx, etc., etc.

    Most "educated people" don't care enough to find out the truth about any of these matters.

    And anyway, even if it was true that most people believed in the globe since the greeks, what of it? With the advent of new technology we have now proven the firmament exists and disproven boats disappearing and debunked the curve.

    When you understand that "education" = "brainwashing" for the Jєωs and the Globalists, that will explain why all "educated" people "believe" the earth is a ball.  Notice, I say "believe", since none of them bother to investigate the matter but simply accept globularity as fact.

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #299 on: July 15, 2023, 11:24:45 AM »
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  • Hmmmm I thought modern hebrew and biblical hebrew were the same. Due to the Jєωs altering their scripture after Christ came, to remove references to Him.

    They are different linguistically, slightly so in terms of vocabulary and strongly in terms of grammar.  But yes, they are similar when it comes to distorting information about Christ.  It is a good idea to compare anything in a Hebrew Bible against the Vulgate to check for doctrinal problems.