Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Jaynek was right on St. Thomas  (Read 7366 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Jaynek was right on St. Thomas
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2018, 03:29:23 PM »
The problem is that the link you provided, is a summary of what St. Thomas thinks, written by a guy named JFS.  That's fairly useless for me to determine truthfully whether or not the Saint believed in the globe.  If you have actual quotes from the Summa we can go over those. However, the real problem is that St. Thomas makes it clear that if one concludes from other sources what appears to be truth, it must be compatible with revelation, which is Scripture and Tradition.  The globe is not compatible with Scripture, and no Father sources Scripture, let alone expounds so as to prove that the globe is compatible with revelation.  Conversely, many Fathers and Catholics show in great detail how Scripture and flat geocentric earth complement not only each other, but science as well. And they also provide greater insight to the liturgy.  The tiniest bud of the liturgical flower is laid out by God for us clear back to Genesis!    
In reply #6 of this thread I linked to a translation of De Caelo et Mundo.  It is the actual work by St. Thomas and I quoted it directly.  You can go to the link and read the entire thing if you want.  (It is not the Summa, but another work he wrote.)http://dhspriory.org/thomas/DeCoelo.htm#1-0

St. Thomas clearly and explicitly teaches that the earth is a sphere.  He therefore must think that the globe is compatible with Scripture.  St. Thomas disagrees with your interpretation of Scripture. This Saint and Doctor of the Church (like St. Bede) understands Scripture as not teaching flat earth.  

Some people in the patristic period believed in flat earth but then the belief disappeared.  It had not been held by Catholics for over a thousand years until a few like yourself joined into its revival promoted by heretics and pagans.

Re: Jaynek was right on St. Thomas
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2018, 03:41:20 PM »
In reply #6 of this thread I linked to a translation of De Caelo et Mundo.  It is the actual work by St. Thomas and I quoted it directly.  You can go to the link and read the entire thing if you want.  (It is not the Summa, but another work he wrote.)http://dhspriory.org/thomas/DeCoelo.htm#1-0

St. Thomas clearly and explicitly teaches that the earth is a sphere.  He therefore must think that the globe is compatible with Scripture.  St. Thomas disagrees with your interpretation of Scripture. This Saint and Doctor of the Church (like St. Bede) understands Scripture as not teaching flat earth.  

Some people in the patristic period believed in flat earth but then the belief disappeared.  It had not been held by Catholics for over a thousand years until a few like yourself joined into its revival promoted by heretics and pagans.
Thank you for this.  I'm still reading.  But I came across this after he first describes earth where its kind of hard to understand what he's saying but then he says:
349 III. There are similar disputes about the shape of the earth. Some think it is spherical, others that it is flat and drum-shaped.
This sort of disputes the notion that he was talking about spherical earth when he brings it up as another possible shape entirely. 


Re: Jaynek was right on St. Thomas
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2018, 04:55:13 PM »
Thank you for this.  I'm still reading.  But I came across this after he first describes earth where its kind of hard to understand what he's saying but then he says:
349 III. There are similar disputes about the shape of the earth. Some think it is spherical, others that it is flat and drum-shaped.
This sort of disputes the notion that he was talking about spherical earth when he brings it up as another possible shape entirely.
I'm sorry.  I gave it to you in an especially confusing format. The entire work is a commentary on Aristotle's work, also called De Caelo. St. Thomas is going through Aristotle's ideas and arguments and giving his own thoughts on them.  This translation gives the passage from Aristotle (with the original Greek beside) followed by St. Thomas's comments (with the original Latin beside).

This passage you quote is what Aristotle wrote.  Aristotle was the one saying that there were disputes about the shape of the earth, as indeed there were in his time.

Here is an English translation that just has the work by St. Thomas:
http://dhspriory.org/thomas/english/DeCoelo.htm

Re: Jaynek was right on St. Thomas
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2018, 07:40:47 PM »
I'm sorry.  I gave it to you in an especially confusing format. The entire work is a commentary on Aristotle's work, also called De Caelo. St. Thomas is going through Aristotle's ideas and arguments and giving his own thoughts on them.  This translation gives the passage from Aristotle (with the original Greek beside) followed by St. Thomas's comments (with the original Latin beside).

This passage you quote is what Aristotle wrote.  Aristotle was the one saying that there were disputes about the shape of the earth, as indeed there were in his time.

Here is an English translation that just has the work by St. Thomas:
http://dhspriory.org/thomas/english/DeCoelo.htm
Specifically, what do you think in this work proves St. Thomas believed earth is a globe?

Re: Jaynek was right on St. Thomas
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2018, 08:15:02 PM »
Specifically, what do you think in this work proves St. Thomas believed earth is a globe?

Book II Lecture 27

Quote
532. Having determined the truth about the earth's place and about its motion or rest, the Philosopher here determines the truth about its shape.

First he proves that the earth is spherical with natural reasons taken on the part of motion; Secondly, with mathematical and astronomical reasons based on sense observations
http://dhspriory.org/thomas/english/DeCoelo.htm#2-27

St. Thomas says that Aristotle determined the truth about the shape of the earth and proved that it is spherical.

St. Thomas does not simply describe Aristotle's opinion, but call it the truth.