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Author Topic: Dr. Sungenis: Flat Earth Flat Wrong  (Read 5820 times)

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Offline gladius_veritatis

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Re: Dr. Sungenis: Flat Earth Flat Wrong
« Reply #165 on: August 18, 2022, 01:33:27 AM »
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  • Starting at around -45:00 In Robert Sungenis' most recent live video, he talks about a huge light that preceded the sun during the week of creation. It is about a billion times, um, no,...wait, he says, probably only ten thousand times, no wait, maybe a million times bigger than the sun. Yea, that's it. Then it dissipates. And it goes away.  It's still there, but we don't need it.  Earth is enveloped by water, which was ice at the time because the temp was zero.  Now it's water thanks to the big sun before the sun. 

    Maybe my calling him Bobby Sun is more fitting than I realized...
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Dr. Sungenis: Flat Earth Flat Wrong
    « Reply #166 on: August 18, 2022, 07:12:56 AM »
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  • I've read the whole book; it's not that long.  The version that I have did not say any of the above.  Methinks these guys didn't understand what Enoch was describing.


    1.  Enoch describes, during the period before the Flood, how the world became more and more corrupt, which led to God deciding to send the Great Flood.
    a.  Enoch describes how God allowed angels to be tempted by women (and a lust for power) and choose to leave heaven to become fallen angels.  Enoch does not say WHEN the angels fell by this temptation (i.e. before the world was created or after).  Enoch also does not mention lucifer as part of this group, so those angels who were cast into hell by St Michael before the world was created were a separate group that "fell" from heaven.
    b.  Those angels who fell by lust for women/power were given very specific names by Enoch, as well as descriptions of their powers and interests.
    c.  The angels who fell during Noah's time had children by way of witchcraft, which produced the Giants/Nephalim.

    2.  The descriptions of the fallen angels who "taught men to sin" is not accurate.  What Enoch describes is that these angels gave to those men/women who worshipped them the knowledge of all sciences, technology, metallurgy, chemistry, astronomy, etc.  Before the angels came into the world, the world revolved around farming.  The angels taught evil men how to do the following:
    a.  Find, develop and use metals for weapons, technology and Jєωelry
    b.  Find, develop and use herbs for medicine, potions and poisons
    c.  Find, develop and use chemistry, biology, etc (all modern sciences) for power, money and war.
    d.  All of these things led to luxuries, sinfulness and war

    Scripture also tells us that all of mankind was "corrupted" but that Noah was "pure in his generations".  This leads one to suspect that animal/Nephalim/demonic corruption (i.e. genetic manipulation) was also happening.  As one guy argued, Satan wanted to corrupt all of mankind's gene pool so that Our Lord couldn't be born.  This is a strong argument and fits into what Scripture implies here.

    Also, many Church Fathers are very explicit when they say they believed that the Giants/Nephalim were, in fact, demonic/human hybrids.

    Yes, while I've not read the entire thing, I read the first sections of it, and Enoch was clearly talking about the fall of the Nephilim or "sons of God", aka the Watchers.  One Church Fathers said that they were sent by God to help guide and direct men.  Book of Enoch did NOT say that this was the same as the first or original fall of the angels, nor did it say that this was the FIRST time men fell into sin, but that these fallen Nephilim taught men all manner of sinful things.


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Dr. Sungenis: Flat Earth Flat Wrong
    « Reply #167 on: August 18, 2022, 07:17:55 AM »
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  • People here are still trying to push this whole angels mated with humans Gnostic garbage?  Nowhere does The Church teach this and it goes against any Catholic sense and this type of belief, and others like it, were condemned at Fifth Ecuмenical Council Constantinople II and part of the 15 condemned errors of Origen.  (A search should get you to see and read them)

    What are you babbling about?  This is not gnosticism.  This is mentioned in Genesis 6:4, and several of the Church Fathers, including Pope St. Clement I (and several others cited by Pax) indicated that these were in fact angels of some kind who "changed their nature", that these were the angels who had been set up near the first firmament to govern the material world (so the lowest tier of angels).  St. Augustine does not rule out the possibility that these angels had some kind of ethereal bodies.  He cites examples (as credible) of, say, incubi demons who have physically and sɛҳuąƖly assaulted human beings and stories from the OT where angels could be seen and not touched.  He eventually does go with explaining the passage in Genesis 6:5 as being the "sons of Seth" because he can't come to grips with how these angels would have fallen.  But other Church Fathers disagree.  See the citations from the Fathers cited by Pax on the other thread.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Dr. Sungenis: Flat Earth Flat Wrong
    « Reply #168 on: August 18, 2022, 07:29:00 AM »
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  • Can you post these condemnations?  I'm interested to read.

    I re-read the condemnations of Origen in Constantinople II, and they have nothing to do with this issue.
    https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3812.htm

    Origen's thesis was that there were all these rational beings created by God (including evidently even the sun and the moon, etc.) and that they all grew cold to God except the one (which became Christ).  Some grew slightly cold in their love for God and these became men, while the ones the grew even colder became demons.  Strange stuff there, but that has nothing to do with the stories about the Nephilim.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Dr. Sungenis: Flat Earth Flat Wrong
    « Reply #169 on: August 18, 2022, 07:56:00 AM »
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  • Thanks for the info, Lad.


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Dr. Sungenis: Flat Earth Flat Wrong
    « Reply #170 on: August 18, 2022, 08:16:24 AM »
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  • Thanks for the info, Lad.

    Thanks for the citations from the Fathers on that other thread.  I had in fact been inclined to go with the "sons of Seth" theory myself ... until reading those citations from the Church Fathers, which clearly indicate their belief that they were actually angels who had changed their nature somehow.

    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Dr. Sungenis: Flat Earth Flat Wrong
    « Reply #171 on: August 18, 2022, 08:57:45 AM »
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  • Maybe my calling him Bobby Sun is more fitting than I realized...
    Too funny.  I may use that in the future. After watching it, his recent video makes me wonder if he feels forced into supporting his other movies and books with made up nonsense.