Author Topic: Cosmology Poll (Read 33298 times)

Ladislaus · « **Reply #360 on:** November 22, 2022, 07:43:26 PM »

Quote from: St Giles on November 22, 2022, 07:38:05 PM

My problem with the electromagnetism theory is that it should be easily proven right or wrong with electromagnets, or even permanent magnets. Some things are more or less affected by electromagnetism, but in an isolated and out of proportion way compared to the general constant force pulling things down. Magnets can defy gravity to an extreme degree, yet they cannot attract or repel most objects.

That's viewed from a more macro scale. My problem with gravity is that ... it's never been proven to exist. It's nothing more than a description or a mathematical characterization of movement, yet no one has ever proven or demonstrated a cause for it. Forces do not act at a distance.

St Giles · « **Reply #361 on:** November 22, 2022, 08:57:58 PM »

Magnetism isn't at least somewhat as mysterious as gravity? Magnets work at a distance.

This is the video I wanted you to see, and those are not, or should not, be magnets in the gravity compass experiment with the dumbbells.

https://youtu.be/KnqBzncqS2U?t=763

cassini · « **Reply #362 on:** November 26, 2022, 09:31:12 AM »

Quote from: St Giles on November 22, 2022, 07:38:05 PM

My problem with the electromagnetism theory is that it should be easily proven right or wrong with electromagnets, or even permanent magnets. Some things are more or less affected by electromagnetism, but in an isolated and out of proportion way compared to the general constant force pulling things down. Magnets can defy gravity to an extreme degree, yet they cannot attract or repel most objects.

“For great is the power of God alone, and he is honoured by the humble. Seek not the things that are too high for thee, and search not into things above thy ability: but the things that God hath commanded thee, think on them always, and in many of his works be not curious. For it is not necessary for thee to see with thy eyes those things that are hidden. In unnecessary matters be not over curious, and in many of his works thou shalt not be inquisitive. For many things are shewn to thee above the understanding of men. And the suspicion of them hath deceived man, and hath detained their minds in vanity.” --- Ecclesiasticus (Sirach) 23:21-26).

Gravity (from the Latin word gravitás, meaning heavy) is just a word used to describe things falling. It was Newton who extended it to mean why cosmic bodies move after he said an apple falls because the earth attracted it and made it fall. Put a coin on the ground and get a little magnet over it and you will see the coin attracted to the magnet. In other words, according to Newton then the attraction of a little magnet is greater than the attraction of the mass of the Earth.

Ladislaus posted:
My problem with gravity is that ... it's never been proven to exist. It's nothing more than a description or a mathematical characterization of movement, yet no one has ever proven or demonstrated a cause for it. Forces do not act at a distance.

St Giles said magmetism does, but at short distances.

In Genesis God said after He created heaven and Earth He created LIGHT. Now light is one aspect of electromagnetism.

He hangeth the Earth upon nothing not to be moved.
Upon what are its bases grounded. (Job 26; 7&38:6)

The above is an actual picture of a solid Earth held in space using magnetism.
When Domenico Cassini discovered all orbits are Cassinian ovals, he did not know that positive electromagnetism produces lines of magnetic forces.

This link can be demonstrated by spreading iron-filings over a 2 positive-pole magnetised surface. This will form directional charge patterns that constitute a whole series of Cassinian ovals. As we can see above, most ovals are present. All orbits then follow electromagnetic courses.

Back in the early seventeenth century it was discovered that the Earth is a giant loadstone with a magnetic field and that the poles of this field correspond more with the celestial axis than the equatorial north-south pole axis, and that this magnetic field travels way out into space. Now consider this: Cassini established that the orbit of the sun around the Earth is an electromagnetic related oval, and that the orbits of the planets around the sun are also electromagnetic Cassinian ovals. It follows then that if all orbits of the stars are fixed in similar orbits to the sun, as stellar aberration requires, then their orbits also move by way of the magnetic lines of Cassinian ovals.

In the 20th century a radiation called the Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB) was discovered throughout the universe. Is this the electromagnetic ‘light’ of creation revealed in Genesis? As to what causes the different electromagnetic effects in the universe, what generates them, we propose that they could be caused by the spinning gyroscopic movements of the universe around the stationary Earth on a daily and annual basis that God created, and Who keeps it spinning by His will alone.

‘(1) Earth is the centre of creation, and (2) there may be many heavenly bodies revolving along many pathways, thus producing many circuмferences around the Earth, and these may be referred to as “heavens.”’ --- St. Thomas (I, Q 68, a 4, ad l)

You do know physicists for 150 years have looked for a connection between moving cosmic bodies and electromagnetism. They never did find one because they ignored Cassini's findings because they support geocentrism. A friend showed me the above but we do not expect to get the Nobell prize for our geocentric theory of everything.

Miser Peccator · « **Reply #363 on:** December 14, 2022, 07:56:49 PM »

Miser Peccator · « **Reply #364 on:** December 14, 2022, 07:59:47 PM »

Miser Peccator · « **Reply #365 on:** December 16, 2022, 05:00:27 PM »

This never made sense to me:

Gen 1:16
And God made two great lights: a greater light to rule the day; and a lesser light to rule the night

Tradman · « **Reply #366 on:** December 16, 2022, 06:49:46 PM »

Quote from: Miser Peccator on December 16, 2022, 05:00:27 PM

This never made sense to me:

Gen 1:16
And God made two great lights: a greater light to rule the day; and a lesser light to rule the night

It doesn't make sense. But then, none of the globe model "proofs" make sense. Upside down people and entire oceans magically sticking to a globe? Demonic indoctrination is certainly the culprit. You can't even reason with people anymore.

Miser Peccator · « **Reply #367 on:** December 16, 2022, 07:48:15 PM »

Quote from: Tradman on December 16, 2022, 06:49:46 PM

It doesn't make sense. But then, none of the globe model "proofs" make sense. Upside down people and entire oceans magically sticking to a globe? Demonic indoctrination is certainly the culprit. You can't even reason with people anymore.

Yes, it seems to be a kind of spell casting. It doesn't at all mean that people are dumb but just that they had a spell cast upon them from early infancy and reinforced over and over and over their entire life!

Every school classroom has a globe. The beginning of every movie shows the globe. TV news intros show the globe. Alt Right news show intros show the globe. Shows for really smart people like NOVA show the globe. Really smart people at NASA believe in the globe.

Often when you question the globe model they will go into lengthy explanations with crazy complex math equations and scientific explanations that go over the average man's head. More spell casting. Instead of admitting you don't understand, or that what they are saying doesn't really make sense, it's tempting to acquiesce to what appears to be their superior and "expert" knowledge.

Plus there is the fear of ridicule for being a "crazy flat-earther". I will be labelled. What will people say? What will people think? They will think I'm dumb. Everyone will make fun of me! They will laugh at me like the kids in grade school did that time...

They make people attach their whole identity to a scientific theory. Nobody has to "identify" as anything. We are all just people questioning, researching and theorizing with wonderment about what we are seeing with our own two eyes.

With "identity" it becomes a "winners and losers" competition. Name calling ensues such as "globetard" and "flattard". :P

Well, our pride doesn't want to admit we might be wrong or we have been fooled and deceived about something so that gets into the mix.
This happens with those who lean towards the flat earth model as well when new information challenges their theory.

There is no shame in having a wrong conclusion that new evidence brings to light! At the pearly gates there will be a quiz and it won't be, "What is the true shape of the earth?"

No, it's an opportunity to exercise the virtue of humility and admit we were wrong about something or hadn't considered something and will need to explore that more...

One detail that needs to be worked out doesn't necessarily mean the entire model is bad, however.

We should welcome new information and challenges as it comes in and sift, sift, sift the evidence. This way it's a fun riddle or puzzle.

Smart people research and ask questions! Dumb people believe what they are told without question---just sit on your couch and listen to the experts and drool...

Then there is the problem of "so many people being in on it". We have seen how that actually can and does happen on a world wide scale with the covid narrative and the theory of evolution and other world wide hoaxes. The few "experts" fool the masses. Yes, even on a world-wide scale!

Plus admitting one was duped and the cognitive dissonance that ensues is painful and causes anger and other discomforts while processing new information, so denial can be a panacea for that pain.

Then there is the demand for a "complete model for flat earth" with no room for any error whatsoever or unresolved questions and theories.

We were led to believe that just about everything there is to know about the earth and the solar system is discovered and proven as scientific fact and that is very comforting in a way.

"We are home, we know all there is to know about our home, and we are ALL in agreement on that."

Blatant errors, scientific fallacies and very simple unresolved questions about the ball model are ignored or dismissed due to this over confidence that it's all been worked out by TOP scientists.

Often these blatant errors are painfully obvious and pretty funny actually. It's very difficult to come to terms with the fact that we were fooled to this extent as it's a blow to the ego. :/

Painfully obvious and funny case in point---upside down people:

Hey, we all have fallen for this stuff to a certain degree, so there is plenty of good company! :)

Tradman · « **Reply #368 on:** December 16, 2022, 08:14:40 PM »

Posted by: Miser Peccator
Often these blatant errors are painfully obvious and pretty funny actually. It's very difficult to come to terms with the fact that we were fooled to this extent as it's a blow to the ego. :/

Painfully obvious and funny case in point---upside down people:

Hey, we all have fallen for this stuff to a certain degree, so there is plenty of good company! :)

Yea, we did. Glad to have made it out of that nightmare.
It's also funny when it comes to the fe grassroots. A lot of the memes out there are not only wicked smart, they're downright hilarious.

Tradman · « **Reply #369 on:** December 16, 2022, 08:24:30 PM »

AnthonyPadua · « **Reply #370 on:** May 09, 2023, 11:05:03 AM »

I voted other because I'm not too sure on the current FE model. Personally I do think it's flat since the ball stuff has too many problems. Also nasa is big gαy and ʝʊdɛօ-masonic.. the cuts to the 'room'.. you can see the nose....

Anyway I'm on page 20 of this thread and am busy atm so can't read more, is there any 'good' FE models? The current one does not take into account the Southern hemisphere and has some other problems.

Also unfortunately many FEers are protestants and believe ridiculous stuff about Catholics being 'pagan' or 'constaintine Christian' or some other garbage propaganda. Meaning there are not grounded in truth and will never consider the teachings of the Church fathers which would help them tremendously.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #371 on:** May 09, 2023, 01:50:38 PM »

Quote from: AnthonyPadua on May 09, 2023, 11:05:03 AM

Anyway I'm on page 20 of this thread and am busy atm so can't read more, is there any 'good' FE models? The current one does not take into account the Southern hemisphere and has some other problems.

It does if you understand it, where the sun moves faster in the southern hemisphere, and the notion of the 24-hour sun in Antarctica has never been demonstrated. In fact, the only two videos out there were demonstrably faked (cuts were made and exact cloud patterns repeated after 24 hours, etc.). One of the things that needs to be studied are the arguments regarding the movement of the stars in the "southern" "hemisphere", and I've seen arguments from both sides but haven't had time to study the details.

I just know that the tests that have been conducted simply can't work on a globe, well, not a globe of the size they claim it to be. Perhaps if the globe were much larger than we're told, but there's not a chance that these results could be obtained on a globe of the size they claim the earth to be. Really the only answer might be that some other force, perhaps electromagnetism, somehow bends light perfectly around the globe, but no globe earther has ever proposed (much less demonstrated) such a thing.

Nor has there been an even remotely adequate explanation for how the planet could retain the atmosphere adjacent to the nearly-absolute vacuum of space without a container or barrier such as Sacred Scripture describes the firmament.

cassini · « **Reply #372 on:** May 09, 2023, 03:26:54 PM »

From Stephen Hawking's

BRIEF HISTORY OF TIME

CHAPTER 1 OUR PICTURE OF THE UNIVERSE well-known scientist (some say it was Bertrand Russell) once gave a public lecture on astronomy. He described how the earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the center of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy. At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: “What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise.” The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, “What is the tortoise standing on?” “You’re very clever, young man, very clever,” said the old lady. “But it’s turtles all the way down!” Most people would find the picture of our universe as an infinite tower of tortoises rather ridiculous, but why do we think we know better? What do we know about the universe, and how do we know it? Where did the universe come from, and where is it going? Did the universe have a beginning, and if so, what happened before then? What is the nature of time? Will it ever come to an end? Can we go back in time? Recent breakthroughs in physics, made possible in part by fantastic new technologies, suggest answers to some of these longstanding questions. Someday these answers may seem as obvious to us as the earth orbiting the sun—or perhaps as ridiculous as a tower of tortoises. Only time (whatever that may be) will tell. As long ago as 340 B.C. the Greek philosopher Aristotle, in his book On the Heavens, was able to put forward two good arguments for believing that the earth was a round sphere rather than a flat plate. First, he realized that eclipses of the moon were caused by the earth coming between the sun and the moon. The earth’s shadow on the moon was always round, which would be true only if the earth was spherical. If the earth had been a flat disk, the shadow would have been elongated and elliptical, unless the eclipse always occurred at a time when the sun was directly under the center of the disk. Second, the Greeks knew from their travels that the North Star appeared lower in the sky when viewed in the south than it did in more northerly regions. (Since the North Star lies over the North Pole, it appears to be directly above an observer at the North Pole, but to someone looking from the equator, it appears to lie just at the horizon. From the difference in the apparent position of the North Star in Egypt and Greece, Aristotle even quoted an estimate that the distance around the earth was 400,000 stadia. It is not known exactly what length a stadium was, but it may have been about 200 yards, which would make Aristotle’s estimate about twice the currently accepted figure. The Greeks even had a third argument that the earth must be round, for why else does one first see the sails of a ship coming over the horizon, and only later see the hull?

St Giles · « **Reply #373 on:** May 09, 2023, 07:44:03 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on May 09, 2023, 01:50:38 PM

It does if you understand it, where the sun moves faster in the southern hemisphere, and the notion of the 24-hour sun in Antarctica has never been demonstrated. In fact, the only two videos out there were demonstrably faked (cuts were made and exact cloud patterns repeated after 24 hours, etc.). One of the things that needs to be studied are the arguments regarding the movement of the stars in the "southern" "hemisphere", and I've seen arguments from both sides but haven't had time to study the details.

I just know that the tests that have been conducted simply can't work on a globe, well, not a globe of the size they claim it to be. Perhaps if the globe were much larger than we're told, but there's not a chance that these results could be obtained on a globe of the size they claim the earth to be. Really the only answer might be that some other force, perhaps electromagnetism, somehow bends light perfectly around the globe, but no globe earther has ever proposed (much less demonstrated) such a thing.

Nor has there been an even remotely adequate explanation for how the planet could retain the atmosphere adjacent to the nearly-absolute vacuum of space without a container or barrier such as Sacred Scripture describes the firmament.

How about an angel holds the atmosphere from escaping? Will you accept that? Could God have just ordered nature such that the earth is a globe and the air doesn't escape?I think the scientists say helium and hydrogen do escape.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #374 on:** May 09, 2023, 07:49:53 PM »

Quote from: St Giles on May 09, 2023, 07:44:03 PM

How about an angel holds the atmosphere from escaping? Will you accept that? Could God have just ordered nature such that the earth is a globe and the air doesn't escape?I think the scientists say helium and hydrogen do escape.

Well, I might in theory accept that an angel would hold it back, except that Sacred Scripture clearly describes the firmament as serving that function.

Poll

What model do you believe most accurately describes the cosmos?

Author Topic: Cosmology Poll (Read 33298 times)

Ladislaus

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St Giles

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cassini

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Miser Peccator

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Miser Peccator

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Miser Peccator

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Tradman

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Miser Peccator

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Tradman

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Tradman

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AnthonyPadua

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Ladislaus

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cassini

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St Giles

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Ladislaus

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