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Author Topic: Catholic Flatearth Believers  (Read 16573 times)

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Re: Catholic Flatearth Believers
« Reply #50 on: December 01, 2019, 06:06:37 PM »
I haven't seen any.  Can you provide them for me?
Since you have not been able to see the ones that I already provided, then it would be a waste of time for me to continue to do so.

Re: Catholic Flatearth Believers
« Reply #51 on: December 01, 2019, 06:47:32 PM »
It would be interesting to see which Fathers taught a globe earth by relating it to inerrant Scripture. I think that most of them related it to what they believed to be inerrant science. Or science that made more sense to them than inerrant Scripture. They may have been sincere, but they did not see where the belief in a globe earth would lead - which would be to the detriment of mankind and the Church.

The few Fathers who taught about flat earth from Scripture did so before St. Augustine taught that Scripture did not speak on this issue.  His teaching was soon adopted by the Church so there are no known Catholics (other than the poorly educated Cosmas) who looked in Scripture for information on the shape of the earth.  Anyone who accepted Catholic interpretation of Scripture would have looked for the answer from science.  Of course, Catholics of the past would not have thought science was inerrant; that is a modern error.  The millions of Catholics who have read Scripture in accordance Catholic teaching since St. Augustine have believed Scripture to be inerrant while also accepting the earth is a globe.  

Other than those few Fathers and Cosmas, the people who first claimed that Scripture taught flat earth were sola scriptura heretics.  They did not have Church teaching to guide them in interpreting Scripture, so they made errors.  Unfortunately, the current crisis in the Church has allowed some Catholics to follow them into error without correction from our leaders.  The flat earth trad site, for example, openly acknowledges that it uses the heretical and blasphemous Eric Dubay as its source. 

It is absurd to claim that belief in a globe earth ledsto the detriment of mankind and the Church.  It is this sort of ridiculous, baseless assertion that has led so many people to speak disparagingly of your intelligence.


Offline Tradman

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Re: Catholic Flatearth Believers
« Reply #52 on: December 02, 2019, 11:16:38 AM »
The few Fathers who taught about flat earth from Scripture did so before St. Augustine taught that Scripture did not speak on this issue.  His teaching was soon adopted by the Church so there are no known Catholics (other than the poorly educated Cosmas) who looked in Scripture for information on the shape of the earth.  Anyone who accepted Catholic interpretation of Scripture would have looked for the answer from science.  Of course, Catholics of the past would not have thought science was inerrant; that is a modern error.  The millions of Catholics who have read Scripture in accordance Catholic teaching since St. Augustine have believed Scripture to be inerrant while also accepting the earth is a globe.  

Other than those few Fathers and Cosmas, the people who first claimed that Scripture taught flat earth were sola scriptura heretics.  They did not have Church teaching to guide them in interpreting Scripture, so they made errors.  Unfortunately, the current crisis in the Church has allowed some Catholics to follow them into error without correction from our leaders.  The flat earth trad site, for example, openly acknowledges that it uses the heretical and blasphemous Eric Dubay as its source.

It is absurd to claim that belief in a globe earth ledsto the detriment of mankind and the Church.  It is this sort of ridiculous, baseless assertion that has led so many people to speak disparagingly of your intelligence.
No Father of the Church taught heresy and remains a Father of the Church. Saying a "few Fathers of the Church and Cosmas" were heretics makes you suspect of heresy yourself.  The earliest Fathers teachings embody what's Catholic.  The Church didn't just suddenly spring up after the first Fathers' errors and subsequent Fathers corrected them; that's not even Catholic. Refusing to provide any quotes that the Fathers eventually taught globe earth using Scripture, along with saying the Fathers erred, you've destroyed your own argument.  

Re: Catholic Flatearth Believers
« Reply #53 on: December 02, 2019, 01:59:55 PM »
No Father of the Church taught heresy and remains a Father of the Church. Saying a "few Fathers of the Church and Cosmas" were heretics makes you suspect of heresy yourself.  The earliest Fathers teachings embody what's Catholic.  The Church didn't just suddenly spring up after the first Fathers' errors and subsequent Fathers corrected them; that's not even Catholic. Refusing to provide any quotes that the Fathers eventually taught globe earth using Scripture, along with saying the Fathers erred, you've destroyed your own argument.  
I did not say that a few Fathers of the Church and Cosmas were heretics.  I said that other than a few Fathers of the Church and Cosmas, historical  proponents of flat earth (like this group that was formed in the 19th century) were heretics.    This is the opposite of claiming that the few Fathers who believed in flat earth were heretics.  

Whatever the Fathers all agree is part of the Faith embodies what is Catholic. Individual opinions of Fathers may be incorrect.  For example, in the first centuries there was some disagreement among the Fathers about whether certain writings should be considered part of the canon of Scripture. Some of the Fathers left out books that should have been included.  Some included books that should have been left out.  Eventually there was a consensus and all later Fathers were correct.

I misunderstood your question as being one that I had already answered, so I did not want to do so again.  I apologize.   A Father (as well as Doctor of the Church) who taught the earth is a sphere and related it to Scripture is St. Bede.  In De Temporum Rationem he wrote explaining length of daylight from  "the roundness of the Earth, for not without reason is it called 'the orb of the world' on the pages of Holy Scripture and of ordinary literature. It is, in fact, set like a sphere in the middle of the whole universe.".   This was written around 700 A.D.

Offline Tradman

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Re: Catholic Flatearth Believers
« Reply #54 on: December 02, 2019, 06:55:43 PM »
I did not say that a few Fathers of the Church and Cosmas were heretics.  I said that other than a few Fathers of the Church and Cosmas, historical  proponents of flat earth (like this group that was formed in the 19th century) were heretics.    This is the opposite of claiming that the few Fathers who believed in flat earth were heretics.  

Whatever the Fathers all agree is part of the Faith embodies what is Catholic. Individual opinions of Fathers may be incorrect.  For example, in the first centuries there was some disagreement among the Fathers about whether certain writings should be considered part of the canon of Scripture. Some of the Fathers left out books that should have been included.  Some included books that should have been left out.  Eventually there was a consensus and all later Fathers were correct.

I misunderstood your question as being one that I had already answered, so I did not want to do so again.  I apologize.   A Father (as well as Doctor of the Church) who taught the earth is a sphere and related it to Scripture is St. Bede.  In De Temporum Rationem he wrote explaining length of daylight from  "the roundness of the Earth, for not without reason is it called 'the orb of the world' on the pages of Holy Scripture and of ordinary literature. It is, in fact, set like a sphere in the middle of the whole universe.".   This was written around 700 A.D.
Apologies to you. You're right, your words didn't say the Fathers were heretics. Bede seems in this quote to be a bit of an anomaly, but the entire article is not present to view for context and its doubtful he would be the lone saint to deny what all the others taught, especially when the moving globe always has been the teaching of pagans.  By the way, apology accepted.