Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Fr MacDonald on Bishop Huonder  (Read 1154 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Nadir

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11726
  • Reputation: +7055/-498
  • Gender: Female
Fr MacDonald on Bishop Huonder
« on: May 12, 2023, 09:46:13 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • I have written something on the subject of Bishop Huonder. Mostly I am applying some teaching of Fr. Scott from 2007 to the Bishop Huonder case. It is  attached. You may do as you will with it.

    God bless,
    Fr. MacDonald




    Dear Faithful,

    Bishop Vitus Hounder tells us that Pope Francis gave him the mission of working to integrate the
    SSPX into the Conciliar Church in 2015. He began discussions with the SSPX and in 2019 moved
    into a house of the SSPX which operates a school. The faithful's concerns at the time were allayed
    as we were told that he was retiring and would not be teaching or doing priestly or episcopal
    functions. The SSPX has published nothing in the English speaking world about his activities, but
    he was active and not just retired.

    Now it has become public even in the English speaking world that Bishop Hounder has performed
    the Holy Thursday Chrismal Mass at the SSPX's German seminary. We recall from the catechism:
    "Holy Chrism is a mixture of Olive Oil and Balm blessed by the bishop on Holy Thursday."
    Only Holy Thursday 2023 it was Bishop Hounder who blessed the Holy Chrism and also the two
    other Holy Oils: the Oil of the Catechumens, and the Oil of the Infirm.

    These oils are used by priests and bishops for the sacraments. There is no sacrament of
    Confirmation without Holy Chrism. There is no sacrament of Extreme Unction without the Oil of
    the Infirm. The anointings and consecration made at Baptism are important, and the many
    consecrations that bishops do depend upon having Holy Chrism or the Oil of the Catechumens.
    If Bishop Hounder is a bishop there is not a problem. However, if he is not a bishop there is a
    serious problem. The trouble is we do not know if he is a bishop or not. There is a positive doubt as
    to whether he is a bishop. Therefore we don’t know if these are holy oils or just olive oil. We cannot
    use doubtful matter for the sacraments. Fr. Scott explains this in his September 2007 Angelus
    article, here: https://sspx.org/en/must-priests-who-come-tradition-be-re-ordained

    Here is an excerpt from Fr. Scott’s article. I have added the bold.

    Archbishop Lefebvre clearly recognized his obligation of providing priests concerning whose
    ordination there was no doubt. It was one of the reasons for the episcopal consecrations of 1988,
    as he declared in the sermon for the occasion:
    You well know, my dear brethren, that there can be no priests without bishops. When
    God calls me—this will certainly not be long—from whom would these seminarians
    receive the sacrament of Orders? From conciliar bishops, who, due to their doubtful
    intentions, confer doubtful sacraments? This is not possible."

    He continued, explaining that he could not leave the faithful orphans, nor abandon the
    seminarians who entrusted themselves to him, for “they came to our seminaries, despite all the
    difficulties that they have encountered, in order to receive a true ordination to the priesthood...” (Fr.
    Francois Laisney, Archbishop Lefebvre and the Vatican, p.120). He considered it his duty to
    guarantee the certitude of the sacrament of holy orders by the consecration of bishops in the
    traditional rite, who would then ordain only in the traditional rite.

    We must observe the same balance as Archbishop Lefebvre. On the one hand, it is our duty to
    avoid the excess of sedevacantism, which unreasonably denies the very validity and existence of
    the post-conciliar Church and its priesthood. On the other hand, however, we must likewise reject
    the laxist and liberal approach that does not take seriously the real doubts that can arise
    concerning the validity of priestly ordinations in the post-conciliar Church, failing to consider the
    enormous importance and necessity of a certainly valid priesthood for the good of the Church, for
    the eternal salvation of souls, and for the tranquillity of the consciences of the faithful. Given the
    gravity of these issues, it is not even a slight doubt that is acceptable. Hence the duty of examining
    in each particular case the vernacular form of priestly ordination, the intention of the ordaining
    bishop, the rite of consecration of the ordaining bishop, and the intention of the consecrators.
    Just as the superiors take seriously their duty of guaranteeing the moral certitude of the holy
    orders of their priests, whether by means of conditional ordination or careful investigation
    (when possible), so also must priests who join the Society accept conditional ordination in case
    of even slight positive doubt, and so also must the faithful recognize that each case is different
    and accept the decision of those who alone are in a position to perform the necessary
    investigations.

    For regardless of the technical question of the validity of a priest’s holy orders, we all recognize the
    Catholic sense that tells us that there can be no mixing of the illegitimate new rites with the
    traditional Catholic rites, a principle so simply elucidated by Archbishop Lefebvre on June 29, 1976:
    We are not of this religion. We do not accept this new religion. We are of the religion
    of all time, of the Catholic religion. We are not of that universal religion, as they call it
    today. It is no longer the Catholic religion. We are not of that liberal, modernist religion
    that has its worship, its priests, its faith, its catechisms, its Bible."

    End of Fr. Scott excerpt.

    There is no record of anyone examining the priestly ordination of Conciliar bishop Hounder. Nor is
    there a record of his consecration as a bishop being examined.

    The superiors of the SSPX have rejected their duty of guaranteeing the moral certainty of the holy
    orders of their priests. They have for quite a few years refused to conditionally ordain priests who
    had serious doubts about their ordination. Fr. Scott teaches us correctly that investigations are
    necessary. Objectively it is a grave sin on the part of the superiors of the SSPX to allow doubtful
    oils that are perhaps consecrated to be used for the sacraments. Also, the priests are not allowed to
    administer doubtful sacraments. They have a grave duty to not use the Oil of the Infirm consecrated
    by perhaps a bishop Vitus Hounder for the sacrament of Extreme Unction.

    Parents now must question the priest who baptises their children about which bishop consecrated
    the oils that he is using. If it was Bishop Hounder they should get the ceremonies supplied by a
    priest using certainly valid oil, e.g., oil consecrated by Bishop Fellay. The families who call a priest
    to the bed of the dying must question the priest and learn if Bishop Hounder consecrated the oil. If
    he did they must refuse the sacrament. And demand that he get other oil to anoint their dying
    relative.

    Here is a second excerpt from Fr. Scott’s article:

    2) When it concerns the validity of the sacraments, we are obliged to follow a “tutiorist”
    position, or safest possible course of action.

    We cannot choose a less certain option, called by the moral theologians a simply probable manner
    of acting, that could place in doubt the validity of the sacraments, as we are sometimes obliged to
    do in other moral questions. If we were able to follow a less certain way of acting, we would run
    the risk of grave sacrilege and uncertainty concerning the sacraments, which would place the
    eternal salvation of souls in great jeopardy. Even the lax “probabilist” theologians admitted this
    principle with respect to baptism and holy orders, since the contrary opinion was condemned by
    Pope Innocent XI in 1679. Innocent XI condemned the position that it is permissible in conferring sacraments to follow a probable opinion regarding the value of the sacrament, the safer opinion being abandoned.... Therefore, one should not make use of probable opinions only in conferring baptism, sacerdotal or episcopal orders." (Proposition 1 condemned and prohibited by Innocent XI, Dz. 1151)

    Consequently, it is forbidden to accept a likely or probably valid ordination for the subsequent
    conferring of sacraments. One must have the greatest possible moral certitude, as in other things
    necessary for eternal salvation. The faithful themselves understand this principle, and it really is a
    part of the “sensus Ecclesiae,” the spirit of the Church. They do not want to share modernist,
    liberal rites, and have an aversion to receiving the sacraments from priests ordained in such rites,
    for they cannot tolerate a doubt in such matters. It is for this reason that they turn to the superiors
    to guarantee validity.

    End of second Fr. Scott excerpt.

    SSPX superiors can no longer be relied upon to give the required guarantees of validity for the
    sacraments. They have become so amalgamated with the Conciliar Church that they accept
    unquestioningly everything that it does.

    The faithful must not trust the SSPX superiors and those priests who don’t question their actions, or
    in this case their lack of action. The SSPX superiors have rejected their strict duty of guaranteeing
    the moral certainty of the sacraments given by their bishops and priests.

    St. Nereus, pray for us.
    St. Domitilla, pray for us,
    St. Pancras, pray for us.

    Fr. MacDonald, Winnipeg 2024 May 12
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.


    Offline Seraphina

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2951
    • Reputation: +2062/-184
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Fr MacDonald on Bishop Huonder
    « Reply #1 on: May 13, 2023, 12:35:32 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Not good at all!  If I’m in the situation, God forbid, I will not hesitate to ask.  If the priest doesn’t know for sure, refuses to disclose, or says it’s (Doubtful) Bp. Huonder, I’ll have no choice but to send him away.  After all, he could just as well use olive oil from my kitchen cabinet that I blessed for myself.  
    If a priest lies, well, unless I have reason to think he’s lying, I’ll accept his sacraments.  I won’t be guilty of rash judgment or become paranoid and suspicious of everyone.  (If I’m home alone on Sunday or a Holy Day, it’s because I cannot get to Mass for a legitimate reason, or there is simply no Mass reasonably available.  I never stay away because I think there are no valid priests or bishops anywhere on earth, or maybe only one or two, age 107, held prisoner in an overseas nursing home!)  
    If a priest were to lie and administer sacramental oils against my will, the sin is entirely his.  I won’t receive the intended graces unless God decides to grant them, but I will receive whatever graces I’ve merited.  
    Bp. (?) Huonder is in Europe, not the US Seminary in VA, so it may be slightly less likely for priests in North America to use the doubtful oils, but how else to know but to ask!  


    Offline AnthonyPadua

    • Supporter
    • ***
    • Posts: 1354
    • Reputation: +499/-73
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr MacDonald on Bishop Huonder
    « Reply #2 on: May 13, 2023, 06:26:30 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Fr. MacDonald, Winnipeg 2024 May 12
    Perhaps a year too late?

    Online Nadir

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 11726
    • Reputation: +7055/-498
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Fr MacDonald on Bishop Huonder
    « Reply #3 on: May 13, 2023, 04:01:53 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Perhaps a year too late?
    A year too early? Never mind. I have written to Father to draw his attention to the dating and to the correct spelling of the ?bishop's name.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.