Author Topic: US District SSPX Priests Supporting the Sellout (Read 12368 times)

John Grace · « **Reply #15 on:** June 29, 2012, 04:50:01 PM »

Quote from: catherineofsiena

Quote from: Amicus24
We, the laypeople, have no "foes". We are not waging a war, the priests are. We have spiritual fathers who are defending our souls and others who have decided to endanger our souls. Our choice will merely be which group of priests we will support with our prayers and seek out for the Sacraments. All we can do is pray and support those who are defending our souls. It serves no purpose to focus on those who are endangering our souls.

As for contingency plans, all there is for us is to make priests who have publicly taken a position against the betrayal aware that they have a flock willing and able to provide for their necessities. There isn't any secret planning that needs to be conducted that must be kept secret from those priests in favor of the sell-out.

Having an enemies list isn't going to be conducive to converting anyone and it won't be us who converts them. It will be their fellow priests. And, having an enemies list circulating with their names on it isn't going to help any priest to be any more disposed to recognize the danger they are putting us in.

At the end of the day, this list is not something, I think that is imbued with a spiritual nature. It savors of something that can only bring harm to our souls.

Please do not take this as a rebuke to you. You have my respect and best wishes. I simply feel this is not an idea that will sanctify us.

Amicus, have you ever been betrayed by a Society priest or even a N.O. priest for that matter? There are people here who have been tricked, maligned and discarded like trash. A list is an act of self protection so we know who to avoid. Your optimism is admirable but not realistic. We have to be cautious in dangerous times.

Look at the lengths Fr Rostand went regarding the 'Against the Rumours' video series that very few were taken in by.

With him and Bishop Fellay, we are dealing with confidence tricksters.It's remarkable Fr Rostand can dismiss facts as rumours. Bishop Fellay is a liar. They took people for fools.

They were/are willing to take the 30 pieces of Vatican Silver so of course people would attend their Mass in a basement. If Bishop Fellay is ever ensconced in Rome, I'm sure he might need a butler.

Fr Clifton has made it very clear there can be no compromise and the direction of SSPX leadership has changed course for the worse.

catherineofsiena · « **Reply #16 on:** June 29, 2012, 06:03:33 PM »

To whomever is monitoring my every post with a thumbs down, perhaps you can come out of hiding and have a reasonable discussion? I hate cowards.

MaterDominici · « **Reply #17 on:** June 29, 2012, 06:23:03 PM »

All the back and forth discussion aside, I notice that after the better part of a day has passed the only person on the list is the very public district superior. So, even those in favor of the idea have no one to add? That's good news.

Domitilla · « **Reply #18 on:** June 29, 2012, 06:23:44 PM »

Dear Amicus 24,

You seem like a very lovely Catholic; I am sure I would be very pleased to call you Friend. However, we really have been plunged into a war footing by the SSPX leadership. Through no fault of our own, we are now wondering how each of us, our children, grandchildren and beloved friends will have access to the Traditional Holy Sacraments, and thus save our souls.

If you haven't read Michael Davies' book, FOR ALTAR AND THRONE, please do so. It is the story of the rising up of the laity of the Vendee Region to preserve the Holy Faith during the French Revolution. You see, anytime the Holy Faith is under attack, it is the sacred duty of every baptized Catholic to defend Her.

Nickolas · « **Reply #19 on:** June 29, 2012, 07:56:46 PM »

Those who want to create this list are over-reacting. Our prayers (mostly those), emails, the respectful forum posts and messages to our priests and the district superiors (I hope you have sent some) have let it be know the laity, by what seems to be a large majority, are not in favor of any agreement with Rome now. Three Bishops agree. The message has been given. Rome has heard it too and seems to be backing away. There is nothing to be gained by creating a list of dubious accuracy and value.

Satan wages continual war against the Church. No one can discount the serious crisis the Society and most of all the Tradition of the Church is in. The charge to us is not to take up a battle axe, but fight the good fight with grace, holiness, and yes might that brings glory to God, not our fighting muscle. Personally, when I read something that appears to have been written by a verbal mob, I ignore it. It is easy to do be ugly on a forum as you have no identity. You are less likely to show humility too. We are human.

If you have not spoken to your priest, do so. If you have spoken with him, speak with him again. Let him know your opposition and get your church friends to do the same. To the priest, you are a person with a name. A good soul. On this forum, you are a nameless figure and rash and hasty acts can easily do more harm than good, to your soul and to those whom you bring harm to. Your grace under fire may just convince others to adopt your position. Your rash acts may send them the opposite direction.

Roman55 · « **Reply #20 on:** June 29, 2012, 09:12:50 PM »

Quote from: Amicus24

Quote from: Seraphim
Even better than this: I can get a list of priests currently assigned to the US District and publish it.

We can then go down the checklist, designating each as "Pro-Sellout" (Backed by citation to public statements), "Anti-Sellout" (Backed by public statements opposing the sellout), or "Silent."

What do you think?

My thoughts on why this is important:

1) Discernment of friend from foe;
2) Required for keeping contingency plans discreet;
3) Resource for Catholics seeking aid after the sellout;
4) Let's us know which priests will need our support vs those who will not;
5) Let's us know which priests (i.e., pro-sellout) we need to convert

PS: I don't have to be right, but this seems to make sense to me. Open to hearing objections.

Please do not take this as a rebuke to you. You have my respect and best wishes. I simply feel this is not an idea that will sanctify us.

There is, as many of you know, exists a well known web-site that, at times, seem to go over the edge when calling out the hypocrisy and other well known plunders of the modernists. They have a logical, sound reason for doing so: It is to motivate them through a look in the mirror at what 'nincompoops' they behave like. And as they site many scriptures, in hopes of embarrassing them to see their evil and repent of their ways. Is it working? Time will tell. But the idea Seraphim's has can be taken in the same light. "Silly Galatians" I think is how +Williamson put it when quoting scripture. It would be more a sin to say nothing and let them go their 'dumb-bell' way than to try and 'shake them out of the effect the poisoned 'kool-aid' has had. There is, IMOHO, a greater chance, because of deep reflection, that the list of 'naer-do-well's' would see the light.
I appreciate the caution you show in your point, but I'd tend to lean, with wisdom and insight-fulness, more of Seraphim's idea. FWIW

Domitilla · « **Reply #21 on:** June 29, 2012, 09:22:23 PM »

I believe the point of this list of pro-accord priests is more a measure of self defense. Just as the SSPX Leadership seems to be purging priests who have spoken out against the accord, they will certainly purge any parishioners who are against this merger.

In the aftermath of Vatican II, Catholics were bullied into accepting the Concilliar changes and those who refused were often humiliated, rebuked from the pulpit, refused Holy Communion - oh yes, my friend's parents were refused Holy Communion because they asked the pastor where they could locate a Traditional Holy Mass! - etc.

During the English Reformation and the French Revolution, people's very lives were at stake for defending the Holy Faith. They needed to be acutely aware of who their enemies were. Now you may think this is overly dramatic; however, can we be so sure that no harm will come to us by just speaking to any SSPX priest? Can we be positive that he won't throw us out and refuse to deal with us? In my years of attending an SSPX Chapel, I have witnessed and been informed of some rather reprehensible actions on the part of certain pastors. Of course, silence was maintained and the offending priest never reported because he is a priest, after all. So, yes, I can understand the need for a list of pro-accord priests. That list will avoid much unnecessary heartache for those of us in need of the Holy Mass and true sacraments. I am sorry if this is offensive to some of you, but I am just giving my honest opinion.

Incredulous · « **Reply #22 on:** June 29, 2012, 10:04:06 PM »

Quote from: John Grace

Quote from: Seraphim
1) Fr. Arnaud Rostand - Countless public statements/interviews supporting sellout

His Against The Rumours propaganda fooled nobody.Who believed him? Fr Rostand is one of the worst priests the SSPX have. They appeased International Jewry yet wanted to convince those that finance them that the facts were "rumours". Pathetic attempt by Fr Rostand. We don't believe you, Fr Rostand. Your Superior General has been ousted as a liar. Facts confirm this. Dismiss this as "internet rumour", Fr Rostand. Their PR spin is rubbish.

Father Rostand, please pack-up and go back to France.

French clergy supporting Bp. Fellay's prelature cabal should expect an
end to US hospitality. You have over-stayed your welcome.

Father, instead of peace, be prepared for scorn and be verbal confrontation.

Incredulous · « **Reply #23 on:** June 29, 2012, 10:19:21 PM »

Quote from: John Grace

Quote from: catherineofsiena
Quote from: Amicus24
We, the laypeople, have no "foes". We are not waging a war, the priests are. We have spiritual fathers who are defending our souls and others who have decided to endanger our souls. Our choice will merely be which group of priests we will support with our prayers and seek out for the Sacraments. All we can do is pray and support those who are defending our souls. It serves no purpose to focus on those who are endangering our souls.

As for contingency plans, all there is for us is to make priests who have publicly taken a position against the betrayal aware that they have a flock willing and able to provide for their necessities. There isn't any secret planning that needs to be conducted that must be kept secret from those priests in favor of the sell-out.

Having an enemies list isn't going to be conducive to converting anyone and it won't be us who converts them. It will be their fellow priests. And, having an enemies list circulating with their names on it isn't going to help any priest to be any more disposed to recognize the danger they are putting us in.

At the end of the day, this list is not something, I think that is imbued with a spiritual nature. It savors of something that can only bring harm to our souls.

Please do not take this as a rebuke to you. You have my respect and best wishes. I simply feel this is not an idea that will sanctify us.

Amicus, have you ever been betrayed by a Society priest or even a N.O. priest for that matter? There are people here who have been tricked, maligned and discarded like trash. A list is an act of self protection so we know who to avoid. Your optimism is admirable but not realistic. We have to be cautious in dangerous times.

Look at the lengths Fr Rostand went regarding the 'Against the Rumours' video series that very few were taken in by.

With him and Bishop Fellay, we are dealing with confidence tricksters.It's remarkable Fr Rostand can dismiss facts as rumours. Bishop Fellay is a liar. They took people for fools.

They were/are willing to take the 30 pieces of Vatican Silver so of course people would attend their Mass in a basement. If Bishop Fellay is ever ensconced in Rome, I'm sure he might need a butler.

Fr Clifton has made it very clear there can be no compromise and the direction of SSPX leadership has changed course for the worse.

The SSPX prelature crowd is run by Con men... amateur Con men.
Bp. Fellay and his inner cabal have been plotting this sell-out for years.
They've enlisted the help of jews and freemasons.
They are out to gut our Traditional Cathloic Faith an eliminate us.
Know what you're dealing with. Don't feel sorry for them or listen to their spin.

wisconsheepgirl · « **Reply #24 on:** June 30, 2012, 12:22:53 AM »

Quote from: catherineofsiena

To whomever is monitoring my every post with a thumbs down, perhaps you can come out of hiding and have a reasonable discussion? I hate cowards.

I hate cowards as well. What I hate more is this thread. Why so defensive for those that do not follow the pack? Who seem to have independent thought? I believe that it can do nothing but harm. Even if there are priests from the SSPX that are thought to be problematic it does not at this time have it's place on this forum, publicly.

Why? Because right now this is a very confusing time for many regarding the upheaval within the SSPX. Both for Priests and the laity. This is calumny. These Priest are facing what can very easily be put into context, a microcosm= as those very good Priests during Vatican II, confusion with regards to obedience and faithfulness. They left Tradition, and many sadly left their vocation. Offering up of your time in saying multiple rosaries is the answer, not this disgusting thread.

This thread is such a shame and nauseating. No one else should post any further names Priests, whether "Public, verified" or not that is suspected of errors. In fact this tread should be deleted, pronto. All of our Priests, within the SSPX, trad., and yes even those within the NO need our prayers more than at any other time. The spiritual battles they are enduring have to be tremendous. It is our duty as laity to pray for them, lift them up and not disparge of their possible mistakes and, yes possible fall from grace.

This is definitely a way for Satan and all in his dominion will continue to poach our Priests. What better way than creating discord amongst the laity, create confusion and no prayers offered because of this confusion. Thus having the Priests that are in such a huge spiritual battle with no power against the principalities of darkness??

We must pray for all of these Priests, their spiritual battle is with one that seeks to devour their souls for eternity. Pray! Pray! Pray!

Don't mistake me as being naive and doe-eyed. On the contrary. But it is way too soon to even broach this subject and create a list.

Again, this thread needs to be deleted.

morningstar · « **Reply #25 on:** June 30, 2012, 12:34:31 AM »

Well said, wisconsheepgirl.

May we fight against temptation of sins of the tongue (and keyboard), and re-double our prayer efforts for all of Christ's anointed.

PRAYER FOR PRIESTS

O Almighty Eternal God, look upon the face of thy Christ, and for love of Him who is the eternal High Priest, have pity on Thy priests. Remember, O most compassionate God, that they are but weak and frail human beings. Stir up in them the grace of their vocation which is in them by the imposition of the Bishop's hands. Keep them close to Thee, lest the enemy prevail against them, so that they may never do anything in the slightest degree unworthy of their sublime vocation.

O Jesus, I pray Thee for Thy faithful and fervent priests; for Thy unfaithful and tepid priests; for Thy priests labouring at home or abroad in distant mission fields; for Thy tempted priests; for Thy lonely and desolate priests; for Thy young priests; for Thy aged priests; for Thy sick priests; for Thy dying priests; for the souls of Thy priests in purgatory.

But above all I commend to Thee the priests dearest to me: the priest who baptised me; the priests who absolved me from my sins; the priests at whose Masses I assisted and who gave me Thy Body and Blood in Holy Communion; the priests who taught and instructed me or helped me and encouraged me; all the priests to whom I am indebted in any other way, particularly N.N. O Jesus, keep them all close to Thy heart, and bless them abundantly in time and in eternity. Amen.

O Mary, Queen of the Clergy, pray for us and send us many and holy priests.
(Three times.)

catherineofsiena · « **Reply #26 on:** June 30, 2012, 01:28:05 AM »

Quote from: wisconsheepgirl

Quote from: catherineofsiena
To whomever is monitoring my every post with a thumbs down, perhaps you can come out of hiding and have a reasonable discussion? I hate cowards.

I hate cowards as well. What I hate more is this thread. Why so defensive for those that do not follow the pack? Who seem to have independent thought? I believe that it can do nothing but harm. Even if there are priests from the SSPX that are thought to be problematic it does not at this time have it's place on this forum, publicly.

Why? Because right now this is a very confusing time for many regarding the upheaval within the SSPX. Both for Priests and the laity. This is calumny. These Priest are facing what can very easily be put into context, a microcosm= as those very good Priests during Vatican II, confusion with regards to obedience and faithfulness. They left Tradition, and many sadly left their vocation. Offering up of your time in saying multiple rosaries is the answer, not this disgusting thread.

This thread is such a shame and nauseating. No one else should post any further names Priests, whether "Public, verified" or not that is suspected of errors. In fact this tread should be deleted, pronto. All of our Priests, within the SSPX, trad., and yes even those within the NO need our prayers more than at any other time. The spiritual battles they are enduring have to be tremendous. It is our duty as laity to pray for them, lift them up and not disparge of their possible mistakes and, yes possible fall from grace.

This is definitely a way for Satan and all in his dominion will continue to poach our Priests. What better way than creating discord amongst the laity, create confusion and no prayers offered because of this confusion. Thus having the Priests that are in such a huge spiritual battle with no power against the principalities of darkness??

We must pray for all of these Priests, their spiritual battle is with one that seeks to devour their souls for eternity. Pray! Pray! Pray!

Don't mistake me as being naive and doe-eyed. On the contrary. But it is way too soon to even broach this subject and create a list.

Again, this thread needs to be deleted.

I disagree with you but I respect that you came out and said what you had to say. We have a different set of experiences. Maybe when you feel the sting of betrayal and abandonment in your time of need you may change your mind. Or maybe you are a better person than I am.

Again, different set of experiences.

catherineofsiena · « **Reply #27 on:** June 30, 2012, 01:38:07 AM »

Quote from: wisconsheepgirl

Quote from: catherineofsiena
To whomever is monitoring my every post with a thumbs down, perhaps you can come out of hiding and have a reasonable discussion? I hate cowards.

I hate cowards as well. What I hate more is this thread. Why so defensive for those that do not follow the pack? Who seem to have independent thought?

More to the point of this comment, I am not sure if it was for me or the thread in general, but there seem to be people signing up just to affect the ratings of certain posters. I've noticed the pattern with several people, one of whom got a thumbs down for simply posting a praying hands icon. People are being deliberately targeted here by either a poster with multiple identities and a vendetta or pro accord people harassing those against the agreement. That can create a bit of a defensive attitude as I'm sure you can see.

wisconsheepgirl · « **Reply #28 on:** June 30, 2012, 03:11:22 AM »

CatherineofSiena,

Thank you for your post. No, I have not experienced any type of a betrayal directly from a Priest. Of course all of us have with the way the Church in its present form is being run.

Though never having experienced it via clergy, I have had personal experience of it and it would indeed color your world differently, no?

I am very saddened to hear this. Betrayal and abandonment is truly intimate. The gravity of such an experience from clergyman, it matters not the reason why or in what way. I'm just sorry it happened at all.

I am hoping that you allow a bit of reflection. Just for a moment. What comes to mind here at 3 a.m. after reading your post is remembering Good Friday. Christ himself was abandoned and betrayed. Over and over. What you and I are taught is on Holy Saturday that with that bitterness we all experienced with Our Lord the previous day; we're given a promise of hope and glory. I wish you healing from your pain.

In regards to the comment of "why so defensive"? When I wrote it I was fuming, it was not directly at you personally. But, it was written to you as if you held all the responsibility for all the posters that were vilifying those who disagreed with what I perceived as common sense. I should not have written so steamed up. You do not have responsibility for anything but your own words. I was wrong. I apologize to you.

Many Blessings.

JuanDiego · « **Reply #29 on:** June 30, 2012, 08:21:07 AM »

I'm sorry Wisconsin sheep girl that you were so offended. However, I for one have to respectfully disagree with you. I just read the "Heads Will Roll" article by Rivarol, the French Newsletter, and that coupled with the info about Krah and Bp F's abuse of power towards very good priests and Bishops makes me realize we are in a WAR. War cannot be fought without using tactics that are not pleasant. That doesn't mean we should jump to conclusions about priests, and report "rumors", but if it is a docuмented case of a priest following the dictatorial policies of Bp F, like Fr Rostand, I can't see why it should not be exposed, to protect the faithful. There is too much deceit today in Rome, and it is obvious that has entered the SSP too. We need to be transparent to help one another. My opinion.