Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Poll

If. Msgr. Vigano is Excommunicated:

It will prove his authenticity, and I will support him
3 (5.3%)
It will prove he's not Catholic, and I want nothing to do with him
0 (0%)
I already support him, so it will mean nothing to me
31 (54.4%)
I will still have issues with him
23 (40.4%)

Total Members Voted: 55

Author Topic: The Msgr. Vigano Poll  (Read 3875 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SimpleMan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3429
  • Reputation: +1112/-168
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Msgr. Vigano Poll
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2022, 10:37:45 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • +Vigano's excommuniation, of course, would mean nothing to me, for the same reasons that Pope St. Celestine declared the excommunications of Nestorius to have been null and void (even before Nestorius was formally removed from office) but even in terms of my perception of +Vigano.  I doubt it'll happen because the Vatican simply don't want to go out of their way to draw even more attention to +Vigano.  It's the same reason that they quietly allowed Bishop de Castro Mayer to continue Tradition in his diocese, and did not remove him ... because they figured that he'll eventually just die and disappear from the scene, and they didn't want to raise a bit stink about it.  Outside of Traditional circles, no one had ever heard of him.  So whether they do or don't excommunicate him, it would be for tactical reasons and not out of principle.  While it might be interesting to read +Vigano's reaction to such a thing, what the Vatican decides to do or not do has no bearing on my perception of him.

    Yep, the good old "Streisand effect" at work --- the bigger a stink they raise, the more people notice, and the more people would learn about him and could even sympathize with him.

    As the saying goes, no such thing as bad publicity.

    Offline SimpleMan

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3429
    • Reputation: +1112/-168
    • Gender: Male
    Re: The Msgr. Vigano Poll
    « Reply #16 on: September 22, 2022, 10:43:56 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • This sort of survival effort would have to involve Lithuania, Poland, Hungary, Austria, Ireland and traditionalists in France, Spain, Italy, Mexico, etc. The United States and Quebec too. The world seems blind as bats in California but if the right areas wake up maybe there's a chance. This seems like a would-be Lithuanian or Polish Mandate, not Kentucky, since people in Kentucky don't typically have that sort of Catholic background. A Lithuanian Portfolio ...


    https://www.bitchute.com/video/mXd8qP3H8OCZ/

    You might be surprised about Kentucky.  The northern three counties (Boone, Kenton, and Campbell) have historically been heavily German Catholic territory, and there is a long-standing Catholic presence in Louisville, Owensboro, and a cluster of three or four rural counties in central Kentucky that have had a large Catholic percentage for 200 years.  The first Catholic diocese west of the Alleghenies was seated in Bardstown (Nelson County).  More recently, Lexington has grown from a small horse-breeding town to a magnet for professionals of every stripe as well as academics, kind of like Raleigh-Durham writ smaller, and is the home of a relatively new diocese, basically all of Appalachian Kentucky, led by militantly pro-ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ bishop John Stowe.


    Offline Incredulous

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8106
    • Reputation: +7975/-803
    • Gender: Male
    Re: The Msgr. Vigano Poll
    « Reply #17 on: October 01, 2022, 08:42:20 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • What exactly is the excommunicating offense?  Can a bishop be excommunicated for calling the Pope a heretic?


    Pope Bergy defrocked Bp. Plano of Paraguay for going trad and for calling another Paraguayan homo bishop “gαy”.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Incredulous

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8106
    • Reputation: +7975/-803
    • Gender: Male
    Re: The Msgr. Vigano Poll
    « Reply #18 on: October 01, 2022, 08:58:07 PM »
  • Thanks!5
  • No Thanks!0

  • We have to consider the possibility that +ABV is another controlled opposition set-up.

    If Pope Bergy excommunicates him, it’s good theater and will give more notoriety.

    Since the hijacking of the Church in 1958, one would expect the leader of the traditional remnant to be a trad. 
    Not a career consiliarist who becomes a sudden media convert.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 142
    • Reputation: +57/-60
    • Gender: Male
    Re: The Msgr. Vigano Poll
    « Reply #19 on: October 01, 2022, 09:44:01 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
  • ...one would expect the leader of the traditional remnant to be a trad.
    Not a career consiliarist who becomes a sudden media convert.
    Yeah.  I have to say, this has always puzzled me.  


    Offline 2Vermont

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 7967
    • Reputation: +4004/-845
    • Gender: Female
    Re: The Msgr. Vigano Poll
    « Reply #20 on: October 01, 2022, 10:16:21 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • We have to consider the possibility that +ABV is another controlled opposition set-up.

    If Pope Bergy excommunicates him, it’s good theater and will give more notoriety.

    Since the hijacking of the Church in 1958, one would expect the leader of the traditional remnant to be a trad.
    Not a career consiliarist who becomes a sudden media convert.
    For some reason most Trads hope in non Trad clergy to "restore" the Church.  That's partially due to the fact that Trad clergy do too. I personally believe that it's up to the Trad clergy to do it.  Not sure how but they must.  And yet they keep kicking the can down the road.
    How much longer Lord?

    Offline Miser Peccator

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3278
    • Reputation: +1591/-286
    • Gender: Female
    Re: The Msgr. Vigano Poll
    « Reply #21 on: October 01, 2022, 11:26:57 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!2
  • We have to consider the possibility that +ABV is another controlled opposition set-up.

    If Pope Bergy excommunicates him, it’s good theater and will give more notoriety.

    Since the hijacking of the Church in 1958, one would expect the leader of the traditional remnant to be a trad.
    Not a career consiliarist who becomes a sudden media convert.
    Vigano detests the vaccine and yet wants the one who insists to this day that the vax is good and wants to go down in history as the "Father of the Vaccine" back in power.  Vigano has NEVER called Trump out for this. 
    This after well over 30,000 Americans have died!

    Instead he deflects and covers for him.

    Vigano lied to Reawaken America Rally in April, telling the crowd that "we know the pandemic farce would have never taken place under Trump".

    Um...we were all there.  It did take place under Trump.  That's why we have the vaccine.

    Vigano's vision for the savior of the world is Trump.  His vision for world peace is that of the UN (Lucifer Trust).

    "The defeat of the deep state by the healthy forces within the United States of America will be the premise for a peaceful coexistence of nations, without there being one nation that considers itself superior and legitimized to subjugate the others. This is why Donald Trump was ousted by electoral fraud from the Presidency of the United States..."

    People need to ask themselves,

    "Is that my vision?"

    A world where one nation is not superior to another?

    Where the US is equal to Iran?  Afghanistan?  Bhutar?

    That is also the vision of the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr




    under the (Lucifer Trust) UN.

    This week, Vigano again stated that Trump back in power would bring about world peace. 

    Will it bring "peace" for the over 30,000 Americans who died from Trump's vaccine?  (may they rest in peace---smh)

    "Remember, the Jєωs rejected Jesus because He didn't come to defeat the corrupt Roman government, nor did he come to establish His Kingdom on earth at that time.

    But the world will embrace the Beast for he will meet the desires of man, to take the Kingdom by force, here and now."

    see this full thread on the Freemason/Kabbalah symbolism of the Great Awakening:

    https://twitter.com/DonnieDarkened/status/1575993141119053825




    "Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, do I give unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, nor let it be afraid."   
    John 14:27

    Offline Cera

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4409
    • Reputation: +1848/-973
    • Gender: Female
    • Pray for the consecration of Russia to Mary's I H
    Re: The Msgr. Vigano Poll
    « Reply #22 on: October 02, 2022, 06:17:37 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • To properly understand Vigano, we must first understand the "balance of powers" as outlined in the US Constitution (not currently being followed) in which the executive branch, the legislative branch and the judicial branch are separate but equal. (Were our founding docuмents being followed, the alphabet police would be smacked down by both the legislative and juducial branches).

    If this is clear, it's easy to understand what Vigano said regarding peaceful coexistence of nations, without there being one nation that considers itself superior and legitimized to subjugate the others. (As the US deep state globalists do now.)

    Rightly understood, this is the polar opposite of globalism with it's "International Police Force" to enforce the Communist, anti-God "The Great Reset" in which nations exist in name only.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary


    Offline Miser Peccator

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3278
    • Reputation: +1591/-286
    • Gender: Female
    Re: The Msgr. Vigano Poll
    « Reply #23 on: October 02, 2022, 07:24:05 PM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!0
  • To properly understand Vigano, we must first understand the "balance of powers" as outlined in the US Constitution (not currently being followed) in which the executive branch, the legislative branch and the judicial branch are separate but equal. (Were our founding docuмents being followed, the alphabet police would be smacked down by both the legislative and juducial branches).

    If this is clear, it's easy to understand what Vigano said regarding peaceful coexistence of nations, without there being one nation that considers itself superior and legitimized to subjugate the others. (As the US deep state globalists do now.)

    Rightly understood, this is the polar opposite of globalism with it's "International Police Force" to enforce the Communist, anti-God "The Great Reset" in which nations exist in name only.

    Trump made it clear he doesn't desire to follow the founding docuмents.

    He doesn't believe in free speech, second ammendment rights, or due process of the law.


    Trump establishing the International Police Force for global "peace":






    From the New York Times:



    "The real meaning of the sphere had little to do with the occult.

    The occasion was the opening of a new

    Global Center for Combating Extremist Ideology,

    based in Riyadh, and the orb was in fact a translucent globe, with the world’s waters represented in light gray and the continents in black. Its purpose appeared to be decorative.

    The futuristic look of the darkened room may have helped to fire observers’ imaginations.

    It was filled with computer terminals. At one end was a wall of monitors displaying feeds from news networks...

    The design felt to a pool reporter who was present like a hybrid of a game-show set and a television thriller’s idea of a counterterrorism operations control room.

    Among the many dignitaries at the event were Mr. Trump’s daughter Ivanka and her husband, Jared Kushner, and the Saudi crown prince, Mohammed bin Nayef.

    ...The globe did not appear to have any magical powers, but when the king and Mr. Trump touched it, background music of the kind that might accompany a reality show’s elimination sequence or introduce a cable news program soared and pulsed. The screens glowed with statistical displays and videos about fighting terrorism. An unnamed official who narrated the features of the new control center said the displays used artificial intelligence to track, in real time, news reports and online statements."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/22/world/middleeast/trump-glowing-orb-saudi.html



    What Trump and friends were looking at while fondling the great orb in the

    Global Center for Combating Extremist Ideology!!!


    (These are real photos...this is not from a movie)

















    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Center_to_Combat_Extremism
    etidal.org

    Recent etidal news: 
    Etidal and Telegram Remove 1,203,966 Extremist Content in 35 Days


    Trump wouldn't want anything like that in America, the land of the free would he???

    Thought crime??


    Trump Calls On Social Media Companies To Become Pre-Crime Agents:


    "While delivering a speech on the recent violence, Trump said “we must do a better job of identifying and acting on early warning signs,” and he suggested social media companies could develop new ways of catching “red flags.”

    “I am directing the Department of Justice to work in partnership with local state and federal agencies, as well as social media companies, to develop tools that can detect mass shooters before they strike,” Trump said in the speech."

    https://www.techdirt.com/2019/08/06/trump-calls-social-media-companies-to-become-pre-crime-agents/


    Trump: ‘Take the guns first, go through due process second’
    1min 22sec

    https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/02/28/trump-says-take-guns-early-without-due-process.html




    Trump says Klaus is doing a wonderful job
    59sec
    https://www.bitchute.com/video/jzEHNE3szPeO/


    The reason he is there meeting with all the businesses is to establish the Private Public Partnerships of the Great Reset.  The stakeholder capitalism of the nwo.

    Offline Miser Peccator

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3278
    • Reputation: +1591/-286
    • Gender: Female
    Re: The Msgr. Vigano Poll
    « Reply #24 on: October 02, 2022, 07:33:54 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • Again, Trump doesn't care about the constitution.

    Who are terrorists according to Trump?

    Most of the people at this forum!!!



    A president who signed an executive order on anti-Semitism.  And by anti-Semitism they mean anti-Zionism:

    "Jared Kushner published an Op-Ed in the Times in which he stressed that the definition of anti-Semitism used in the executive order “makes clear what our administration has stated publicly on the record: Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism.

    The Real Purpose of Trump’s Executive Order on Anti-Semitism

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/the-real-purpose-of-trumps-executive-order-on-anti-semitism







    Trump’s Executive Order to Stifle Israel Critics Probably Violates the Constitution


    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/12/trump-anti-anti-semitism-order-likely-violates-constitution.html



    And this (Noahide law call for the beheading of Christians)


    Donald J. Trump: Champion of Noahide Law

    'During his almost four years in office, Donald Trump has been the greatest supporter of Noahide law in US history.'


    https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/290464



    The international police force tracking system established by Trump:


    TRUMP:  WE WILL FINALLY COMPLETE THE BIOMETRIC ENTRY/EXIT VISA TRACKING SYSTEM WHICH WE NEED DESPERATELY

    On land, on sea, and in the air!!!
    2min 14 sec
    https://www.bitchute.com/video/XIckzKXyaKKD/



    Trump has established a virtual prison planet.



    Offline dxcat40

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 840
    • Reputation: +532/-202
    • Gender: Male
    Re: The Msgr. Vigano Poll
    « Reply #25 on: October 02, 2022, 07:52:39 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

  • To properly understand Vigano, we must first understand the "balance of powers" as outlined in the US Constitution (not currently being followed) in which the executive branch, the legislative branch and the judicial branch are separate but equal. (Were our founding docuмents being followed, the alphabet police would be smacked down by both the legislative and juducial branches).
    When has this ever really worked? Do you consider Tammany Hall vs the Society of the Cincinnati to be an example of good early politics? Or was it always meant to be exploited, vindicating the Anti-Federalists? Not to say a Catholic would necessarily want to support them either.

    If this is clear, it's easy to understand what Vigano said regarding peaceful coexistence of nations, without there being one nation that considers itself superior and legitimized to subjugate the others. (As the US deep state globalists do now.)
    Basically he restated part of the Russian state ideology: unilateralism ("one nation") has got to go! Multilateralism is the desired future of the Eurasianists. If he is a neutral observer, why would he push this same message and support Putin? This multilateralism also includes Communist China as one of the poles of influence.

    Rightly understood, this is the polar opposite of globalism with it's "International Police Force" to enforce the Communist, anti-God "The Great Reset" in which nations exist in name only.
    In multilateralism Communist China becomes the military enforcement arm which replaces the United States. That's not to say support Biden and his wicked regime, but the horror of that next new world order is still nothing compared to our miserable present. Destroying the present order is necessary in order to usher in that renewed (global) Red Terror.


    Offline shimano

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 51
    • Reputation: +30/-52
    • Gender: Male
    Re: The Msgr. Vigano Poll
    « Reply #26 on: October 03, 2022, 09:13:32 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!2
  • A Catholic can't be excommunicated by heretics and apostates. 

    Offline epiphany

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3544
    • Reputation: +1090/-875
    • Gender: Male
    Re: The Msgr. Vigano Poll
    « Reply #27 on: October 03, 2022, 11:04:20 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • A Catholic can't be excommunicated by heretics and apostates.
    Does it work both ways?
    In other words, can someone previously excommunicated (especially prior to VII), have the excommunication lifted by heretics and apostates?

    Online Ladislaus

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 33766
    • Reputation: +19880/-4226
    • Gender: Male
    Re: The Msgr. Vigano Poll
    « Reply #28 on: October 03, 2022, 11:07:43 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Does it work both ways?
    In other words, can someone previously excommunicated (especially prior to VII), have the excommunication lifted by heretics and apostates?

    Depends on whether you're a sedeprivationist, whether the excommunication was just/valid in the first place, etc. ... and in danger of death any priest can lift excommunications.

    Offline ServusInutilisDomini

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 529
    • Reputation: +238/-87
    • Gender: Male
    • O sacrum convivum... https://youtu.be/-WCicnX6pN8
    Re: The Msgr. Vigano Poll
    « Reply #29 on: October 03, 2022, 11:40:07 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!2
  • Does Vigano accept Vatican II as an ecuмenical council of the Church and its official teaching?

    Does he accept the new "mass" and sacraments as valid?

    Does he hold the abomination in the Vatican since at least 1962 is not the Catholic Church?

    If not, I don't understand why 62% of supposedly traditional Catholics support him.

    If yes, good for him, I hope he sincerely searches for the fullness of truth and saves his soul by leaving the false sect.