Sorry, I should have added: Providing that it could be proven that the indult was established under Pope Pius XII or before.

Some, though not many, sedevacantists hold that John XXIII was legit.

I started as a Protestant and converted directly into the Byzantine rite, so I’m almost certain I’m bound by Byzantine rules unless there’s something obscure related to ancestry.  My moms parents were Roman rite Catholics and mom May have been baptized one before becoming Protestant at a super young age.  I was baptized in a Protestant “church”

1983 Code canons #111-112 cover this, but their application has some quirks.
For adult converts, if you're baptized unconditionally in the Church after age 14, you can choose the rite you want to belong to, which is normally indicated by choosing to be baptized in that rite.
But if your Protestant baptism was considered valid, I would at some point check with a canonist. Rite doesn't matter for attending Mass or Divine Liturgy, but it impacts marriage or ordination.

Yeah it was accepted in my parish and by the bishop (Paul Chomnycky).  I've never been a member of the Roman Rite that I know of.  If I'm missing anything here please let me know.

I don't want to create a scruple, but if your mother was baptized Catholic, even if fallen away, you might follow her rite by default. The modern Church complicates this by treating fallen away Catholics as non-Catholics in many ways, though.

Regarding baptisms, the traditional view was that if the matter (water) and form (Trinitarian formula) were followed, it's valid, and conditional baptisms were given when one or the other was in doubt. Since - in emergencies - even a non-believer or atheist can validly administer baptism, the "intention" needed for baptism is very minimal. (Then the modern Church comes along and considers a Mormon baptism invalid because Mormons, being non-Trinitarian, do not mean the same thing by the words of the Trinitarian formula.)

I say "get a refrigerator and join the 20th century -- maybe the 21st century if you're really feeling ambitious."

I never took advantage of the "turkey indult" and we purposely make enough food to last many meals. So it's not like we don't have leftovers -- we have SUPER quantities of leftovers. Even with my big family, when we make a turkey (and about 4-5 sides) it lasts several meals.

Cooked food (turkey, gravy, potatoes, vegetables, stuffing, pumpkin pie, etc.) is NOT going to go bad after 2 or 3 days in the fridge. Trust me, I speak from experience: leftovers are good for up to a week unless your fridge is set too warm or something.

You know, my personal take on Thanksgiving is why celebrate it?

I'm probably going to be shot down here, but think:  it's really a Protestant holiday to gorge and commit gluttony; the truly Catholic 1st Thanksgiving was August 15, which was the day that the Mass was celebrated in Florida for the first time in the United States in the 1500's. (WAY before those heretic Pilgrims came over)

1. It's not a protestant holiday. A national holiday, yes, of a nation that was founded by protestants. But I see nothing in "Thanksgiving" which teaches salvation by Faith alone, sola scriptura, anti-statues, or any other protestant error. That's like saying cookies baked by protestants are "protestant cookies" and to-be-avoided. Cookies can't be protestant OR Catholic. After all, they can't go to hell OR heaven, nor will they be judged.

2. There is nothing inherent in the holiday that you commit the sin of gluttony. Adults in control of themselves should be able to take a proper portion of food so that they CAN still walk/move after the meal.

That's like saying the average restaurant or bar's "happy hour" is about getting drunk. Actually, no it's not. A few might get drunk. But the VAST MAJORITY are just having a drink after work -- most Happy Hour patrons very much DO NOT intend to get too tipsy. It's 5 PM, not the middle of the night.

There is not one shred of evidence, that I’m aware of, that there was ever a “Turkey Indult” given under Pope Pius XII. There is evidence that it was given, under certain circuмstances, under John XXIII.

This was my post #50 in this thread:


I finally received Volume 5 of Canon Law Digest by Bouscaren. I only had volumes 1 through 4 in my library as volume 5 didn’t seem to me to be too necessary since it mostly contained the acts of John XXIII 1958-1962.


For many years I questioned the validity of the so called “turkey indult” and never participated in it. Firstly, I have never found any proof of it’s existence until this thread supposedly gave the evidence. Secondly, I found it strange that Pope Pius XII would have granted such an indult since the national holiday is always on the fourth Thursday of November and not on the Friday. Ladislaus uses the argument “ It's not about the meat, but rather about allowing for the entire weekend to be festive, rather than immediately tempering it with a penitential day.” This seems to be a fair argument in favor of the indult, but I have never seen a similar case when the Church acted this way. If anyone has an example, please let me know. Thirdly, the argument that the indult was given due to lack of refrigeration or to not allow the meat to spoil, obviously doesn’t hold water. 


It is my contention that this indult was given in 1962 under John XXIII (as you can see from the photo below) and that the online “proof” was falsified, possibly nefariously, to make one believe that the indult was given in 1957, under Pope Pius XII. Notice how the online version omits the date of 1962 and doesn’t give the full details. Also notice that the indult was not automatic and that the permission had to be renewed every 5 years.


What I believe happened is that older traditionalists were understandably mistaken and thought that this was a common practice in the pre Vatican II Church thus passing on this pseudo tradition and most traditionalists never questioned it.

Now, if you are an R&R adherent, this shouldn’t affect you in any way, but it does affect those of us who hold the Sedevacantist position.



I will post the photos below as they won’t upload to this post.