Ethelred-Indeed when (smaller) children start to disturb the Holy Mass, it's appropriate for one of the parents or older siblings to move to the background or mother-child-rooms with them. Usually these rooms got loud-speakers so the baby-sitters can still hear the Holy Mass and sermon.
I see how you would think a crying room is useful for everyone. But you have to know that our crying room in Malaysia is not what you invision. Our crying room is a room that the mothers have to share with other parents with young kids that are old enough to sit outside. No one bother to make sure that the crying room is actually for crying babies. And it has only one small pew that can sit one parent with 2 small kids. The rest have to sit in the back of the room,3ft away where it is within reach of a a book shelf full of books for sale.
You think it is difficult to control a hyper child in the chapel until you walk into our 'crying room'. Even a well behave child becomes naughty. Mind you the chapel itself is very small. the size of the crying room.. And you said when a child acts up it is good to go to the crying room. I don't know any mother who would sit in the front pew while her child screams his head off..we have no problem using the room. But have you heard of priest pulling a mother into the crying room before the Mass starts and the baby is not even crying or making any noise because the coordinator thinks that we are compromising the sanctity of the chapel.
I have always tried to teach my children to behave at Mass from birth. We have occasion outburst but they are less than 30 secs in. Any longer I would move to the crying room to settle them and come out again. Because I have found the crying room an environment that is not inductive for a child or baby to pay attention to the Mass. It is just a playground to them. And as the chapel is jam packed it is not even a crying room anymore but that doesn't stop the persecutors from giving death stares at toddlers for making occasional babbling noise...it isn't even crying.
Catholics are suppose to have as many children as God pleases but the lack of toleration from adults for innocent children is really appaling. We are not nagging, we are handling the situation and just want to share with you the type of things that can happen in a little chapel where the priest and people in power play politics.
These treatments are not across the board for all children that are noisy. Some older kids can bang their feet and hands on the pews or walk up and down the aisle during the sermon..these 'police' in the chapel wouldn't even bat an eyelid. But one babble from my baby, you think I have kill his father!
trenton-So why aren't you exiting? What else do is needed to show that there's an agenda behind your foul behavior
Trento, we don't just leave because we are being persecuted by priest and layman. The purpose of going to Mass is the sacrifice of the Mass, to fulfill my Sunday obligation. I didn't come here for the other people or to please them. If I was what you say, an emotional mess as you describe us, we would have been long gone. On the other hand I see that by your constant suggestion the that we should leave only tells me that you are here because you found friends. If they are not friendly to you, you would think it would be just, to leave and high tail out of there.
Foul behavior..I don't even understand what you think we have done that is so foul. You find us airing the dirty laundry, filty, but you don't find the laundry a bit dirty..you have one disturbed mind. There is a limit to defends. I have only given facts. I have not peppered salted anything. You have eyes, you do not see, ears you do not hear.
The bottom line good priests make good faithful. When we have good non nonsense priest, we never get persecuted..but the moment a new priest who is easily influenced by the coordinator comes to serve us, in no time at all the same rhetroric comes up. This is real persecution.
All this for what..because we wanted to support a move to a bigger place.
Trento..we know your Mecca is Thou shall not talk bad of priests and bishops.This is your one and only defence.
My Agenda...for once I would like to attend Mass in peace, free from persecution. But I will have to wait until this deal goes through first. I know God is not offended by the presence of the little ones no matter how noisy they may be...they can't offend God..yet somehow they can offend Man...
As for going to 2 separate masses at different times..not possible..we have only one evening mass but even then I was even asked to stay home with little ones who doesnt cry...somehow they found baby babbling super annoying even when it is only for a second. Can one parent watch over 6-7 small children?
We have not dictated anything..we have always been on the receiving end of the dictatives.
...
We mention our children over and over again...because they are the future of the Church whom these people chose to shamelessly attack. And what have we impose on them...we only ask for a bigger chapel to be run by a local malaysian priest that converted to Tradition instead of a coordinator who limit everyone's access to the chapel and priests. A coordinator that even dictates when, where or how the priest do anything. Of course that is way before your time if you even need a 3rd party source to verify the facts.
The extend of the control is beyond your imagination. More than a handful of parishioners at their house clearly heard the coordinator boasting how she reprimanded the district superior for doing penance in her house. She was relating to us that she found out the priest slept on the floor the night before as the mattress was not slept on. so she scolded him " no one sleeps on my floor" to the embarrassment of the priest. And she was so very proud that she reprimanded him and somehow waiting to hear our acknowledgement of approval?! Are we the dictator here...I think not!
If the SSPX continue to be ruled by such leaders, it will be the end for our children be they 1 or 10.
But no matter what we say..it will violate your only code of honor. So I think this is my last post because I really don't want to hear your broken record...
Angelia, if you are reading this, here's my summary of the problems:
This thread starts with accusations against Bishop Fellay doing a 'sellout'. Later it descended into accusations against Fr. Couture of supporting Bishop Fellay's 'sellout', and then the Lims were later added into your mudslinging litany. Chronologically, I can deduce that it first started out with misunderstandings between you and the Lims, then Fr. Couture came into the picture to mediate, thus you started attacking him as well when you did not like his decisions, and now with the latest developments between Rome and the Society, you had a brilliant eureka moment saying, "That's it! It was all planned from the very beginning, even decades ago!" The more you reveal, the more amazed I get!
If my memory did not fail me, there was an occasion on my visit to the chapel many years back that the priest stopped his sermon temporarily when the noise was getting unbearable and only then, did your husband (I suppose the biggest family in the chapel were yours?) got the hint and took the noisy child into the crying room. Is that considered 'persecution'? On other visits, I did notice other children being noisy too, but I don't think it was your family and the parents promptly removed the child without having to wait for hints. I was seated at the back, so I could see what was going on. Obviously then, the problem is not with the children, but rather with the adults supervising the children! People in front will understandably stare behind if there are disturbances, and it could be from any child, not only yours.
When I mediate a dispute between two feuding parties, I usually try to understand the situation and views and stories from both parties. Then I get third party witnesses for corroboration. So far, all the malicious comments against Fr. Couture came from you and you alone. Zorayda can speak for the Philippines or from the States where she regularly attends Mass, while I have my own observations and sources in Malaysia (not related to the Lims, FYI, and who also wishes to attend Holy Mass in peace like you do).
You seem to take lightly serious faults such as calumniating priests and bishops, and forgetting other virtues such as obedience (provided obeying a particular order is not sinful in itself). Beware, what comes around goes around. The scandal coming from such violations is far-reaching and immense, especially on Internet forums such as these for they are stored and available, maybe even long after we are gone from the face of this earth!
Regarding your account of the coordinator's extent of control on the priests, I could not believe it that you couldn't even tell when a person is jesting and or when a person is serious! Really? The laity telling a priest he could not do penance, and you actually bought it hook, line and sinker?
A sad saint really is a sad saint. My take is probably you have a choleric temperament and are easily ruffled or offended on the smallest of matters. You may deny it, but that's what I can conclude after reading your posts. Please, first be at peace with yourself, else you will always have this siege mentality that you are being targeted for 'persecution' which are of your own making. It will be sad when real persecution comes and hits you in the face, and you do no recognize it.
Topic: SSPX UK,FR,SP. bishops dont agree the deal. UK bishop said to me. (Read 22143 times)