Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: Lucca Back on May 11, 2012, 03:45:42 AM
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I am a traditional catholic live in South Korea. His Excellency Bishop Williamson visited South Korea last week.
I asked his Excellency Bishop Williamson after Mass who are the three bishops don't agree in your Dramatic Stichomythia(Elleison Comments Bonus Issue). I asked "Are they Bishop Tissier, Gallareta, and Your Excellency?"
His Excellency said "Yes".
The leaked letters seems to be genuin. Actually the letter of three bishops teaches us why do we have to resist the deal. The letter is like a Elleison comments from three bishops.
We South Korean SSPX followers are so small. They are only fifty people in Sunday Mass. SSPX priests visits only six days per month.
But the sad thing is the only HL who reads the Elleison Comments from 'St. Athanatious of Dinoscopus(I personally think)' is I (Lucca Back).
Almost all of our Korean faithful don't know the grave danger of this Vatican-SSPX deal.
I resist the Vatican II doctrinal preamble. So I restart uploading Youtube videos in my channel( youtube.com/lifemovi ).
You can hear my voice when you watch my video, http://youtu.be/yN9KUhAB4_0
Let's do something for the Defence of the Traditional Faith.
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I am a traditional catholic live in South Korea. His Excellency Bishop Williamson visited South Korea last week.
I asked his Excellency Bishop Williamson after Mass who are the three bishops don't agree in your Dramatic Stichomythia(Elleison Comments Bonus Issue). I asked "Are they Bishop Tissier, Gallareta, and Your Excellency?"
His Excellency said "Yes".
The leaked letters seems to be genuin. Actually the letter of three bishops teaches us why do we have to resist the deal. The letter is like a Elleison comments from three bishops.
We South Korean SSPX followers are so small. They are only fifty people in Sunday Mass. SSPX priests visits only six days per month.
But the sad thing is the only HL who reads the Elleison Comments from 'St. Athanatious of Dinoscopus(I personally think)' is I (Lucca Back).
Almost all of our Korean faithful don't know the grave danger of this Vatican-SSPX deal.
I resist the Vatican II doctrinal preamble. So I restart uploading Youtube videos in my channel( youtube.com/lifemovi ).
You can hear my voice when you watch my video, http://youtu.be/yN9KUhAB4_0
Let's do something for the Defence of the Traditional Faith.
Hi, I'm from India and we are a very small group of Traditional Catholics too. Looks like we will have to start again from scratch even though a fair number of this small band are senior citizens. In my personal opinion, this is a great betrayal!
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I'm very sorry to hear that His Excellency Bishop Williamson canceled the visit to India.
Our chaple's faithful are senior also. Most of them are female. They know the importance of Traditinal Mass. But they don't hear the news about this grave situation. Priests didn't tell them about this crisis. Our faithful don't like me talking about His Excellency Bishop Williamson. His Exellency is in defacto Exile. But He start giving Confirmation. He gave Confirmation Secrament to the faithful who went Akita Pilgrimage.
Three bishops are with us. My family will pray Rosary.
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Lucca, many thanks for sharing your videos with us. It's great to see Bishop Williamson preaching publicly again.
God is with him.
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Thank you.
Maybe next week, we can see his Youtube Appearance again.
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Lucca, many thanks for sharing your videos with us. It's great to see Bishop Williamson preaching publicly again.
God is with him.
What's the situation in France? It seems that most of the French priests do not want a deal but most of the faithful want it. True?
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What's the situation in France? It seems that most of the French priests do not want a deal but most of the faithful want it. True?
I hope so but can't judge the French situation. I know the situation of the German zone better which I shortly described here:
Fr. Schmidberger prepares the SSPX Sellout, Sounds more like FSSP now than SSPX (http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=18567&min=77)
Description from priests attending Fr Schmidberger's German district meeting in Stuttgart in autumn 2011 with approx 50+ priests attending (can't remember the exact number anymore, sorry) :
At the end of Fr Pfluger's hours-long propaganda for a Newrome sellout, the elder former German district superior Fr Franz-Joseph Maeßen stood up and in about four minutes wiped away Fr Pfluger's nonsense with the help of Archbishop Lefebvre's logic. During his short speech most of the attending priests applauded him several times. Fr Pfluger couldn't reply anything. (A little later there was another Waterloo for Bp Fellay and his team at the SSPX superior meeting in Albano (http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=18662&min=3).)
So indeed most German priests oppose a sellout to Newrome but don't dare to protest themselves, when there's no leader to lead. Because of his sickness Fr Maeßen can't physically lead anymore.
We've to consider a few points however:
*) For the sellout to Newrome Fr Schmidbeger is on alignment with Bp Fellay and his team (the father thinks he's still superior general, so often there's tensions between Stuttgart and Menzingen).
*) The depressive Fr Schmidberger rules the FRG-German and Austrian-German district with an iron fist instead of a catholic one. His Prussian sabre-rattling is so that most middle aged and younger priests fear the man. If we read Bp Fellay's leaked letter to the three bishops (14 April 2012), we see many similarities again.
*) The SSPX is hierarchical like the Church. In the end those at the top will make the course. As the saying knows: A fish rots from the head down. So we're at Archbishop's favorite topic named catholic obedience versus false obedience... The devil's coup named Vaticanum II succeeded because of the catholics' false obedience. Sadly the same wrong principle seem to happen again now inside the SSPX (despite the Archbishop's pathbreaking work. They broke with him).
When the going gets tough I'm afraid that too many German and other continental European priests will feel obligated to show a false obedience i.e. follow the superior general despite the latter's liberal delusion. So for most continental European districts I'm pessimistic. I hope I am wrong. Also it depends whether the three good bishops remain steadfast and united. I've no doubt that Bishop Williamson will, but I can't judge the other two aside their good joint letter.
Of course the Almighty will have the last word!
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Of course, a letter of protest is just a letter unless followed by action. As auxiliary bishops they do not occupy a central role and can be kept on the fringes of Society life with further gagging restrictions. Their continued presence will be a sign of their willingness to obey the leadership. The only post-reconciliation alternative is for the bishops to establish alternative apostolates using their national networks of contacts and a fair amount of organising zeal. Is their enough drive and support for such a new beginning .... or are most trads now happy to accommodate those reforms their parents opposed with their feet?
If there is a rebellion ending talks with Rome and replacing the leadership, then the Society will rejuvenate itself but the bureaucracy will need completely overhauling to remove that weakening 'spirit of reconciliation'.
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Of course, a letter of protest is just a letter unless followed by action. As auxiliary bishops they do not occupy a central role and can be kept on the fringes of Society life with further gagging restrictions. Their continued presence will be a sign of their willingness to obey the leadership. The only post-reconciliation alternative is for the bishops to establish alternative apostolates using their national networks of contacts and a fair amount of organising zeal. Is their enough drive and support for such a new beginning .... or are most trads now happy to accommodate those reforms their parents opposed with their feet?
If there is a rebellion ending talks with Rome and replacing the leadership, then the Society will rejuvenate itself but the bureaucracy will need completely overhauling to remove that weakening 'spirit of reconciliation'.
Interesting observations. I discussed these very points with my wife last evening. Do the auxiliary bishops have the courage and energy to undertake the massive task of rebuilding the SSPX from the ground up? Who will pay for new chapel buildings, travel and living expenses, etc.? How many of the faithful will support this effort with their pocketbook and physical labor? I am not optimistic regarding the latter. Most of the parishioners at my SSPX Mass center seem content with a nice liturgy and the social aspects of chapel life. I don't hear anyone discussing the impending agreement and its implications for our parish. It's almost like there's a "don't ask, don't tell" policy among the resident priests and faithful.
This all reminds me a lot of the late 60s and early 70s... :kick-can:
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Of course, a letter of protest is just a letter unless followed by action. As auxiliary bishops they do not occupy a central role and can be kept on the fringes of Society life with further gagging restrictions. Their continued presence will be a sign of their willingness to obey the leadership. The only post-reconciliation alternative is for the bishops to establish alternative apostolates using their national networks of contacts and a fair amount of organising zeal. Is their enough drive and support for such a new beginning .... or are most trads now happy to accommodate those reforms their parents opposed with their feet?
If there is a rebellion ending talks with Rome and replacing the leadership, then the Society will rejuvenate itself but the bureaucracy will need completely overhauling to remove that weakening 'spirit of reconciliation'.
Interesting observations. I discussed these very points with my wife last evening. Do the auxiliary bishops have the courage and energy to undertake the massive task of rebuilding the SSPX from the ground up? Who will pay for new chapel buildings, travel and living expenses, etc.? How many of the faithful will support this effort with their pocketbook and physical labor? I am not optimistic regarding the latter. Most of the parishioners at my SSPX Mass center seem content with a nice liturgy and the social aspects of chapel life. I don't hear anyone discussing the impending agreement and its implications for our parish. It's almost like there's a "don't ask, don't tell" policy among the resident priests and faithful.
This all reminds me a lot of the late 60s and early 70s... :kick-can:
In South Korea, there are no chaples of FSSP, Society of Christ the King. The only way we can hear Traditional Mass is going to SSPX Seoul chaple.
Month ago, I told an old lady faithful about this grave dangerous situation, SSPX-Rome deal. She asked me "Do they permit the Tridentine Mass?". I said It will be permitted like before. She said "Then, I'll follow our parish priest. I want Mass itself"
Many of our faithful visit our chaple just because there is Tridentine Mass in that chaple. Some of them were disappointed about the deal. But they really rely on their priest and liability of getting Sacraments.
And they don't talk about His Excellency Bishop Williamson.
So, I'm afraid there will be few or one catholic family who resist the Vatican II Doctrinal Preamble in South Korea finally.
However few will hear, I'll tell God's truth to our South Korean faithful.(Doctrinal Stichomythya, Eleison Comments Bonus Issue)
The poison of Doctrinal Discussions and Preamble is already in our body. From the first place, they should have been declined, Poisonous Discussions.
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Do the auxiliary bishops have the courage and energy to undertake the massive task of rebuilding the SSPX from the ground up? Who will pay for new chapel buildings, travel and living expenses, etc.? How many of the faithful will support this effort with their pocketbook and physical labor?
Well, I would imagine the Archbishop faced similar odds when he first started out, no? He also was not very young. I think this is the part where we do as he did: Truth first, do all you can, and leave it in Gods hands.
Fortunate for us we have the three who are doing what they can, I'm sure. When they make their move, as they seem to be on the side of Truth, I'm sure all they'll want is for us to be ready. We will be!
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Do the auxiliary bishops have the courage and energy to undertake the massive task of rebuilding the SSPX from the ground up? Who will pay for new chapel buildings, travel and living expenses, etc.? How many of the faithful will support this effort with their pocketbook and physical labor? I am not optimistic regarding the latter. Most of the parishioners at my SSPX Mass center seem content with a nice liturgy and the social aspects of chapel life. I don't hear anyone discussing the impending agreement and its implications for our parish. It's almost like there's a "don't ask, don't tell" policy among the resident priests and faithful.
This all reminds me a lot of the late 60s and early 70s... :kick-can:
I agree based upon my own experience and ties with the sspx..definitely a 'don't ask don't tell' policy. There existed what could be described as almost a fear in the faithful in questioning or showing discontent for fear of being thrown out or alienated. And among the women particularly, a excessive obedience/fear towards the priests...that goes hand in hand with the 'woman should be seen and not heard' mentality of sspx'ers...women shouldn't be overly educated, they should stick to praying rosaries and novenas, cleaning the church, and if they don't become religious, they should marry and have families...problem is, few of them do! I think I witnessed one marriage in 7 years at my sspx chapel....
Good luck to those who have to start with garage masses again....the other three bishops know this...+Williamson has been content to remain in his position for the last three years, and it isn't so uncomfortable...In my opinion, talk of a split in the sspx could nothing more than just that...talk. Sure, there will those that leave and search for other alternatives, but I don't believe it will be anywhere near the number some are suggesting...especially with the threat of 'schismatic' hanging over their heads.... :kick-can:
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What's the situation in France? It seems that most of the French priests do not want a deal but most of the faithful want it. True?
I hope so but can't judge the French situation. I know the situation of the German zone better which I shortly described here:
Fr. Schmidberger prepares the SSPX Sellout, Sounds more like FSSP now than SSPX (http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=18567&min=77)
Description from priests attending Fr Schmidberger's German district meeting in Stuttgart in autumn 2011 with approx 50+ priests attending (can't remember the exact number anymore, sorry) :
At the end of Fr Pfluger's hours-long propaganda for a Newrome sellout, the elder former German district superior Fr Franz-Joseph Maeßen stood up and in about four minutes wiped away Fr Pfluger's nonsense with the help of Archbishop Lefebvre's logic. During his short speech most of the attending priests applauded him several times. Fr Pfluger couldn't reply anything. (A little later there was another Waterloo for Bp Fellay and his team at the SSPX superior meeting in Albano (http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=18662&min=3).)
So indeed most German priests oppose a sellout to Newrome but don't dare to protest themselves, when there's no leader to lead. Because of his sickness Fr Maeßen can't physically lead anymore.
We've to consider a few points however:
*) For the sellout to Newrome Fr Schmidbeger is on alignment with Bp Fellay and his team (the father thinks he's still superior general, so often there's tensions between Stuttgart and Menzingen).
*) The depressive Fr Schmidberger rules the FRG-German and Austrian-German district with an iron fist instead of a catholic one. His Prussian sabre-rattling is so that most middle aged and younger priests fear the man. If we read Bp Fellay's leaked letter to the three bishops (14 April 2012), we see many similarities again.
*) The SSPX is hierarchical like the Church. In the end those at the top will make the course. As the saying knows: A fish rots from the head down. So we're at Archbishop's favorite topic named catholic obedience versus false obedience... The devil's coup named Vaticanum II succeeded because of the catholics' false obedience. Sadly the same wrong principle seem to happen again now inside the SSPX (despite the Archbishop's pathbreaking work. They broke with him).
When the going gets tough I'm afraid that too many German and other continental European priests will feel obligated to show a false obedience i.e. follow the superior general despite the latter's liberal delusion. So for most continental European districts I'm pessimistic. I hope I am wrong. Also it depends whether the three good bishops remain steadfast and united. I've no doubt that Bishop Williamson will, but I can't judge the other two aside their good joint letter.
Of course the Almighty will have the last word!
Indeed. God will have the last word and I share the view here of Ethelred. I remember after a certain note was read out at an Irish chapel, a cleric attempted to 'muzzle' me via email by saying the 'h0Ɩ0cαųst' is not our fight.It amuses me when I hear Catholics saying it is not our fight.A tragic view to hold. I have no idea if this particular cleric believes the myth and the official 6 million story but now is a time for resistance.
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Do the auxiliary bishops have the courage and energy to undertake the massive task of rebuilding the SSPX from the ground up? Who will pay for new chapel buildings, travel and living expenses, etc.? How many of the faithful will support this effort with their pocketbook and physical labor? I am not optimistic regarding the latter. Most of the parishioners at my SSPX Mass center seem content with a nice liturgy and the social aspects of chapel life. I don't hear anyone discussing the impending agreement and its implications for our parish. It's almost like there's a "don't ask, don't tell" policy among the resident priests and faithful.
This all reminds me a lot of the late 60s and early 70s... :kick-can:
I agree based upon my own experience and ties with the sspx..definitely a 'don't ask don't tell' policy. There existed what could be described as almost a fear in the faithful in questioning or showing discontent for fear of being thrown out or alienated. And among the women particularly, a excessive obedience/fear towards the priests...that goes hand in hand with the 'woman should be seen and not heard' mentality of sspx'ers...women shouldn't be overly educated, they should stick to praying rosaries and novenas, cleaning the church, and if they don't become religious, they should marry and have families...problem is, few of them do! I think I witnessed one marriage in 7 years at my sspx chapel....
Good luck to those who have to start with garage masses again....the other three bishops know this...+Williamson has been content to remain in his position for the last three years, and it isn't so uncomfortable...In my opinion, talk of a split in the sspx could nothing more than just that...talk. Sure, there will those that leave and search for other alternatives, but I don't believe it will be anywhere near the number some are suggesting...especially with the threat of 'schismatic' hanging over their heads.... :kick-can:
Spoken like a modernist. Your observatations are quite telling not in of themselves but in the way you describe them. It clearly shows your worldly and modernist aswell as feminist ideas.
You obviously do not understand the role of women and are filling in the gaps in your head with the brainwashing of the masonic society and tv culture in America.
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Do the auxiliary bishops have the courage and energy to undertake the massive task of rebuilding the SSPX from the ground up? Who will pay for new chapel buildings, travel and living expenses, etc.? How many of the faithful will support this effort with their pocketbook and physical labor?
Well, I would imagine the Archbishop faced similar odds when he first started out, no? He also was not very young. I think this is the part where we do as he did: Truth first, do all you can, and leave it in Gods hands.
Fortunate for us we have the three who are doing what they can, I'm sure. When they make their move, as they seem to be on the side of Truth, I'm sure all they'll want is for us to be ready. We will be!
Yes my friend, perhaps God is allowing this to see which of the soft generation now have the will do what must be done, we have it far easier then those who were at the beginning.
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Do the auxiliary bishops have the courage and energy to undertake the massive task of rebuilding the SSPX from the ground up? Who will pay for new chapel buildings, travel and living expenses, etc.? How many of the faithful will support this effort with their pocketbook and physical labor? I am not optimistic regarding the latter. Most of the parishioners at my SSPX Mass center seem content with a nice liturgy and the social aspects of chapel life. I don't hear anyone discussing the impending agreement and its implications for our parish. It's almost like there's a "don't ask, don't tell" policy among the resident priests and faithful.
This all reminds me a lot of the late 60s and early 70s... :kick-can:
I agree based upon my own experience and ties with the sspx..definitely a 'don't ask don't tell' policy. There existed what could be described as almost a fear in the faithful in questioning or showing discontent for fear of being thrown out or alienated. And among the women particularly, a excessive obedience/fear towards the priests...that goes hand in hand with the 'woman should be seen and not heard' mentality of sspx'ers...women shouldn't be overly educated, they should stick to praying rosaries and novenas, cleaning the church, and if they don't become religious, they should marry and have families...problem is, few of them do! I think I witnessed one marriage in 7 years at my sspx chapel....
Good luck to those who have to start with garage masses again....the other three bishops know this...+Williamson has been content to remain in his position for the last three years, and it isn't so uncomfortable...In my opinion, talk of a split in the sspx could nothing more than just that...talk. Sure, there will those that leave and search for other alternatives, but I don't believe it will be anywhere near the number some are suggesting...especially with the threat of 'schismatic' hanging over their heads.... :kick-can:
I disagree respectfully with Bernadette and don't see anything wrong with the womenfolk " praying rosaries and novenas, cleaning the church, and if they don't become religious, they should marry and have families".
In Ireland there have been marriages and religious vocations. As for Bishop Williamson leaving the SSPX. This is exactly what Bishop Fellay wants.
Faithful are not members unless third order so there I am in agreement with Bernadette. Catholics attend chapels for Mass and valid sacraments. They are not under obedience to SSPX priests.
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Well, I would imagine the Archbishop faced similar odds when he first started out, no? He also was not very young. I think this is the part where we do as he did: Truth first, do all you can, and leave it in Gods hands.
Fortunate for us we have the three who are doing what they can, I'm sure. When they make their move, as they seem to be on the side of Truth, I'm sure all they'll want is for us to be ready. We will be!
In some ways, ABL's task was easier in the 1970s and 1980s. People at the time were so desperate to escape the Novus Ordo that they made heroic efforts to acquire chapel buildings, find Traditional priests, and so forth. Many of today's younger SSPX adherents (including a growing number of large families) have never known a time when the TLM -- and even a Traditional Catholic school -- were not readily available to them. In my city, there are 6-7 TLM locations every Sunday. These include SSPX, FSSP, diocesan, SV, etc.
Will people really go the extra mile to support a revitalized Traditionalist movement when, for many, it's just about the Mass and Sacraments?
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Do the auxiliary bishops have the courage and energy to undertake the massive task of rebuilding the SSPX from the ground up? Who will pay for new chapel buildings, travel and living expenses, etc.? How many of the faithful will support this effort with their pocketbook and physical labor? I am not optimistic regarding the latter. Most of the parishioners at my SSPX Mass center seem content with a nice liturgy and the social aspects of chapel life. I don't hear anyone discussing the impending agreement and its implications for our parish. It's almost like there's a "don't ask, don't tell" policy among the resident priests and faithful.
This all reminds me a lot of the late 60s and early 70s... :kick-can:
I agree based upon my own experience and ties with the sspx..definitely a 'don't ask don't tell' policy. There existed what could be described as almost a fear in the faithful in questioning or showing discontent for fear of being thrown out or alienated. And among the women particularly, a excessive obedience/fear towards the priests...that goes hand in hand with the 'woman should be seen and not heard' mentality of sspx'ers...women shouldn't be overly educated, they should stick to praying rosaries and novenas, cleaning the church, and if they don't become religious, they should marry and have families...problem is, few of them do! I think I witnessed one marriage in 7 years at my sspx chapel....
Good luck to those who have to start with garage masses again....the other three bishops know this...+Williamson has been content to remain in his position for the last three years, and it isn't so uncomfortable...In my opinion, talk of a split in the sspx could nothing more than just that...talk. Sure, there will those that leave and search for other alternatives, but I don't believe it will be anywhere near the number some are suggesting...especially with the threat of 'schismatic' hanging over their heads.... :kick-can:
Spoken like a modernist. Your observatations are quite telling not in of themselves but in the way you describe them. It clearly shows your worldly and modernist aswell as feminist ideas.
You obviously do not understand the role of women and are filling in the gaps in your head with the brainwashing of the masonic society and tv culture in America.
When it comes to another crisis in the church such as this, it needs both strong men and strong women to speak out at what they see is happening under their noses, even at the expense of crossing dismissive and disinterested priests. The masonic order will use any means to sign up timid traditional institutions, while its member-priests are convinced that they are doing the Church's work. Turning a blind eye on the greater world may now be the Fellay way but it is a sharp shift in policy.
Are we different to the 'pay, pray and obey' congregations of the past? The world would have all its citizens doing just that in obedience to its gods. If we refuse their unjust demands, why not those of priests?
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Do the auxiliary bishops have the courage and energy to undertake the massive task of rebuilding the SSPX from the ground up? Who will pay for new chapel buildings, travel and living expenses, etc.? How many of the faithful will support this effort with their pocketbook and physical labor? I am not optimistic regarding the latter. Most of the parishioners at my SSPX Mass center seem content with a nice liturgy and the social aspects of chapel life. I don't hear anyone discussing the impending agreement and its implications for our parish. It's almost like there's a "don't ask, don't tell" policy among the resident priests and faithful.
This all reminds me a lot of the late 60s and early 70s... :kick-can:
I agree based upon my own experience and ties with the sspx..definitely a 'don't ask don't tell' policy. There existed what could be described as almost a fear in the faithful in questioning or showing discontent for fear of being thrown out or alienated. And among the women particularly, a excessive obedience/fear towards the priests...that goes hand in hand with the 'woman should be seen and not heard' mentality of sspx'ers...women shouldn't be overly educated, they should stick to praying rosaries and novenas, cleaning the church, and if they don't become religious, they should marry and have families...problem is, few of them do! I think I witnessed one marriage in 7 years at my sspx chapel....
Good luck to those who have to start with garage masses again....the other three bishops know this...+Williamson has been content to remain in his position for the last three years, and it isn't so uncomfortable...In my opinion, talk of a split in the sspx could nothing more than just that...talk. Sure, there will those that leave and search for other alternatives, but I don't believe it will be anywhere near the number some are suggesting...especially with the threat of 'schismatic' hanging over their heads.... :kick-can:
Spoken like a modernist. Your observatations are quite telling not in of themselves but in the way you describe them. It clearly shows your worldly and modernist aswell as feminist ideas.
You obviously do not understand the role of women and are filling in the gaps in your head with the brainwashing of the masonic society and tv culture in America.
Lord Phan...what is modernist in what I have said? My observations are right on target, so don't play the modernist/feminist card with me. If you would take the time to read, you would find that the role of women in many ages throughout history was quite the opposite of your 1950's sspx storybook ideal...of course, I think it is absolutely necessary for married women to accept the role of wife and mother, stay out of the workplace and concentrate on raising the children...involvement in the upkeep of the church is lovely when they have the time...still, women don't need to stay at the grade school or even high school level...strong women throughout history have become martyrs and saints it is true...and women were far better educated than they are today...furthermore, women have as much to offer in opinion as do men...those that are educated that is...what will you have? An uneducated wife that will remain barefoot and pregnant? Please, that it really on the hillbilly side...you and your generation...thirty somethings I guess? You all need to get real...
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strong women throughout history have become martyrs and saints it is true...and women were far better educated than they are today
I doubt the general level of learning was greater. Certainly the general level of knowledge of useful household skills was incomparably greater than today.
...furthermore, women have as much to offer in opinion as do men...those that are educated that is...
A cursory examination of literature, science, history, etc, should dispel that illusion. Certainly there have always been women who've been interested in venturing their opinions. And we're fortunate Bernadette, that you're one of the more interesting ones in this little circle of forums.
what will you have? An uneducated wife that will remain barefoot and pregnant?
A woman who knows how to be a natural woman is rare these days.
Please, that it really on the hillbilly side...you and your generation...thirty somethings I guess? You all need to get real...
Perhaps your trouble is that you have roots in the South and live in California.
If we are to speak of human intelligence, certainly the greatest role an intelligent woman can play is that of mother. Nothing else an intelligent woman can do comes close. It takes a certain degree of intelligence to really believe that.
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strong women throughout history have become martyrs and saints it is true...and women were far better educated than they are today
I doubt the general level of learning was greater. Certainly the general level of knowledge of useful household skills was incomparably greater than today.
...furthermore, women have as much to offer in opinion as do men...those that are educated that is...
A cursory examination of literature, science, history, etc, should dispel that illusion. Certainly there have always been women who've been interested in venturing their opinions. And we're fortunate Bernadette, that you're one of the more interesting ones in this little circle of forums.
what will you have? An uneducated wife that will remain barefoot and pregnant?
A woman who knows how to be a natural woman is rare these days.
Please, that it really on the hillbilly side...you and your generation...thirty somethings I guess? You all need to get real...
Perhaps your trouble is that you have roots in the South and live in California.
If we are to speak of human intelligence, certainly the greatest role an intelligent woman can play is that of mother. Nothing else an intelligent woman can do comes close. It takes a certain degree of intelligence to really believe that.
Hello my good friend Tele!
I really do believe that women were far better educated in the past than today...many women learned several languages, studied ancient Greek and Latin, read extensively the classics in literature, poetry, etc..played the piano or other musical instruments, they were adept at needlework, sewing, lace-making, beading, drawing...they were learned in history, botany, architecture, religion...they focused on refinement, good manners, proper etiquette...no, today we see a society in decline, revolutionary minds...minds that are filled with the junk they absorb off of the television, radio, news media, movie theatre....and if women aren't well educated, they can't raise well-educated children....how is that for food for thought?
I don't think that being born and raised in Southern California is the trouble...the trouble is the type of breeding and background, education and religion one has/receives....or lack thereof!
Yes, I agree, the greatest role an intelligent woman can play in life is that of wife and mother....but Tele...the key word here is "intelligent"....otherwise we encourage and contribute to subpar humanity...
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I really do believe that women were far better educated in the past than today...many women learned several languages, studied ancient Greek and Latin, read extensively the classics in literature, poetry, etc..played the piano or other musical instruments,
I think you're talking about a very select group of young women who were educated that way. And in fact such accomplishments are not so uncommon these days.
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I really do believe that women were far better educated in the past than today...many women learned several languages, studied ancient Greek and Latin, read extensively the classics in literature, poetry, etc..played the piano or other musical instruments,
I think you're talking about a very select group of young women who were educated that way. And in fact such accomplishments are not so uncommon these days.
I don't think it was as small or select a group as you suspect...even the poorer classes strove to elevate themselves...let us always strive to elevate not to degenerate!
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Keep up the fight. It is obligation to tell everyone. I am a parishioner from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. Our district superior Fr. Couture has been giving us Mass every Sunday for the last month..
I am the only one distributing all the docuмents to people. All have chose to ignore and just listen to what Fr. COuture says....just pray..everything will be okay.
I don't buy all that. Every week the news from him contradicts..like the communique from Bp. Fellay.
We must be ready to take actions when all falls into place. It is time for spring cleaning.
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Keep up the fight. It is obligation to tell everyone. I am a parishioner from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. Our district superior Fr. Couture has been giving us Mass every Sunday for the last month..
I am the only one distributing all the docuмents to people. All have chose to ignore and just listen to what Fr. COuture says....just pray..everything will be okay.
I don't buy all that. Every week the news from him contradicts..like the communique from Bp. Fellay.
We must be ready to take actions when all falls into place. It is time for spring cleaning.
I joined yesterday. You joined today. Grave danger toward us make us do something, like joining this forum to share our future.
Fr. Daniel were not there when His Excellency Bishop Williamson visit Akita Japan, May 6th.
I think Fr. Daniel is Soft-Liner.
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Keep up the fight. It is obligation to tell everyone. I am a parishioner from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. Our district superior Fr. Couture has been giving us Mass every Sunday for the last month..
I am the only one distributing all the docuмents to people. All have chose to ignore and just listen to what Fr. COuture says....just pray..everything will be okay.
I don't buy all that. Every week the news from him contradicts..like the communique from Bp. Fellay.
We must be ready to take actions when all falls into place. It is time for spring cleaning.
I joined yesterday. You joined today. Grave danger toward us make us do something, like joining this forum to share our future.
Fr. Daniel were not there when His Excellency Bishop Williamson visit Akita Japan, May 6th.
I think Fr. Daniel is Soft-Liner.
Fr Couture likes AIRLINERS the best, going here, there and everywhere ( except to be seen anywhere near Bishop Williamson!).
Fr Joven Soliman of Manila, ordained by the SSPX, is now an independent priest in Manila. Here his address if you don't already have it:
FATHER JOVEN SOLIMAN <frjsoliman@yahoo.com>
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It's nice to have fellow catholics from (South-) Korea and India here on Cathinfo! Welcome!
Fr. Daniel were not there when His Excellency Bishop Williamson visit Akita Japan, May 6th.
The Bishop visited Akita on 6 May 2012? A very interesting note, thank you.
He mentioned it occasionally in his Rector Letters, in sermons and also in his ECs, for example :
EC 192 (19 March 2011), Why suffering?
[..]
Secondly, human suffering can well be a warning, to turn men away from evil and keep them from pride. Right now the whole godless West should be questioning its own materialism and prosperity. By the steadily increasing rate of earthquakes and other natural disasters all over the world over the last several years, the Lord God is certainly trying to get the attention of all of us, maybe in the hope that he will not have to inflict on us the worldwide „rain of fire“ of which his Mother warned us at Akita (in Japan) in 1973.
(P.S. Fr Couture is 100% pro BpF.)
Sanct Franz Xaver, pray for us!
= St Francis Xavier in English.
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It's nice to have fellow catholics from (South-) Korea and India here on Cathinfo! Welcome!
Fr. Daniel were not there when His Excellency Bishop Williamson visit Akita Japan, May 6th.
The Bishop visited Akita on 6 May 2012? A very interesting note, thank you.
He mentioned it occasionally in his Rector Letters, in sermons and also in his ECs, for example :
EC 192 (19 March 2011), Why suffering?
[..]
Secondly, human suffering can well be a warning, to turn men away from evil and keep them from pride. Right now the whole godless West should be questioning its own materialism and prosperity. By the steadily increasing rate of earthquakes and other natural disasters all over the world over the last several years, the Lord God is certainly trying to get the attention of all of us, maybe in the hope that he will not have to inflict on us the worldwide „rain of fire“ of which his Mother warned us at Akita (in Japan) in 1973.
(P.S. Fr Couture is 100% pro BpF.)
Sanct Franz Xaver, pray for us!
= St Francis Xavier in English.
His Excellency Bishop Williamson visited South Korea, visited Akita Japn from May 5th to May 7th 2012.
Maybe some of them who went to that pilgrimage would try to upload his pilgrimage video. But I don't know whether she would upload His Excellency's Sermon Video. Because SG don't want the release of that video.
http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=9340
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strong women throughout history have become martyrs and saints it is true...and women were far better educated than they are today...furthermore, women have as much to offer in opinion as do men...those that are educated that is...what will you have? An uneducated wife that will remain barefoot and pregnant? Please, that it really on the hillbilly side...you and your generation...thirty somethings I guess? You all need to get real...
Women should only go to college if they plan on staying single... and even then they should do online college courses instead of going to a campus with liberal professors and immorality. Women who intend to marry should not go to college.
Then again, a woman who plans on staying single could always have a job in self-employment. That's what most Trad men do anyway...
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finegan said
"Do the auxiliary bishops have the courage and energy to undertake the massive task of rebuilding the SSPX from the ground up? "
I'd like to know why they don't have the courage to see a practical agreement as an opportunity to infiltrate the Newchurch and take back the Vatican over time.
With Newchurch crippled and exposed nowadays (the sex scandal), don't orthodox clergy have a duty to try ? Instead of watching from a safe distance ?
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Well, two people didn't like my post. So, tell me why I'm wrong here. Or are you all thumbs ?
:popcorn:
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finegan said
"Do the auxiliary bishops have the courage and energy to undertake the massive task of rebuilding the SSPX from the ground up? "
I'd like to know why they don't have the courage to see a practical agreement as an opportunity to infiltrate the Newchurch and take back the Vatican over time.
With Newchurch crippled and exposed nowadays (the sex scandal), don't orthodox clergy have a duty to try ? Instead of watching from a safe distance ?
Maybe they believe that a practical agreement will not work as they will be totally outnumbered by bishops who do not think at all like them. You have used the term Newchurch. The hierarchy of this Newchurch wont let it go so easily.
What you said is of course an option, but when we are talking numbers, all the odds are against the Traditionalists. A simple issue is the Mass. The vast majority of people who still attend the NOM are happy with it. That's been my experience over the years. Even when the TLM has been made available under diocesan auspices, in relative terms, there have been virtually no takers.
BTW, I did NOT put a dislike on your post!
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I really do believe that women were far better educated in the past than today...many women learned several languages, studied ancient Greek and Latin, read extensively the classics in literature, poetry, etc..played the piano or other musical instruments, they were adept at needlework, sewing, lace-making, beading, drawing...they were learned in history, botany, architecture, religion...they focused on refinement, good manners, proper etiquette...no, today we see a society in decline, revolutionary minds...minds that are filled with the junk they absorb off of the television, radio, news media, movie theatre....and if women aren't well educated, they can't raise well-educated children....how is that for food for thought
It real depends on what you mean by "educated." Certaintly they should be informed by good elements of a true Catholic faith, morality, and culture and not the television, radio, news media, and movie theatre.
I agree with you that many women today do not know things like needlework, sewing, lace-making, cooking, history, refinement, good manners and customs, perhaps even religion in some cases, but that is because because they are raised on the standards of the modern world. Some of the other things that you mention would have only been found in some of the middle to upper class women. If rural and peasant women knew some of these things, it was due to the fact that their memories had not been fully impacted by our post-Gutenberg world.
I caution you though to be careful what you wish for here. Others desired what you desire and later regretted it. I leave you with the words of the uncrowned Queen of France, Madame Françoise d'Aubigné Marquise de Maintenon:
The disappointment that I feel in the girls of Saint-Cyr can only be healed by time and by a total change in the education we have given them up to this time. It is just that I would suffer for this since I have contributed to the harm more than any one, and I shall be happy if God does not punish me more severely. My own pride has spread all over the house and its depth is so great that it has overcome even my good intentions.
God knows that I wanted to establish virtue at at Saint-Cyr; yet I have built on sand. Lacking what was necessary to provide a solid foundation, I wanted the girls to be witty, to elevate their courage, to develop their reason. I have succeeded. They are smart and use it against us; they are high-spirited and are more vain and haughty than would be proper for the highest princesses.
As the world says, we developed their reason and turned them into presumptuous, over-curious, and contentious squabblers. This is how one succeeds when one is moved by the desire to excel. A plain, Christian education would have made good girls from whom we would have fashioned good wives and good nuns, but we have formed clever minds that even we, who have formed them, cannot tolerate. This is our illness for which I am responsible more than anyone else.
I think your missing the big picture here too, in many ways that sell-out in the SSPX was predated by the rise of feminist and other errors within Traditional Catholic circles.
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Learning is a double-edged sword. That doesn't mean I counsel ignorance. We have to recognize the limitations of learning. There is so much to study after all. There are many subjects that there are not clearly a justified use
of time and effort. And there is also the fact that the "cultured" world is profoundly anti-Christian.
The influence of film, tv, and popular music is just overpowering.
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Keep up the fight. It is obligation to tell everyone. I am a parishioner from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. Our district superior Fr. Couture has been giving us Mass every Sunday for the last month..
I am the only one distributing all the docuмents to people. All have chose to ignore and just listen to what Fr. COuture says....just pray..everything will be okay.
I don't buy all that. Every week the news from him contradicts..like the communique from Bp. Fellay.
We must be ready to take actions when all falls into place. It is time for spring cleaning.
I joined yesterday. You joined today. Grave danger toward us make us do something, like joining this forum to share our future.
Fr. Daniel were not there when His Excellency Bishop Williamson visit Akita Japan, May 6th.
I think Fr. Daniel is Soft-Liner.
Hi Lucca, I also live in South Korea but in Busan. (you know me)
Welcome to the forum, I went to Seoul last Wednesday but Bp Williamson trip was delayed by 2 days. I had many questions for him so I am glad I you are sharing your experience. I definitely oppose an agreement but I'm unfamiliar with the views of the rest of the people at the parish in Seoul. I suspected that they would not realize the danger as you said.
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finegan said
"Do the auxiliary bishops have the courage and energy to undertake the massive task of rebuilding the SSPX from the ground up? "
I'd like to know why they don't have the courage to see a practical agreement as an opportunity to infiltrate the Newchurch and take back the Vatican over time.
With Newchurch crippled and exposed nowadays (the sex scandal), don't orthodox clergy have a duty to try ? Instead of watching from a safe distance ?
Maybe they believe that a practical agreement will not work as they will be totally outnumbered by bishops who do not think at all like them. You have used the term Newchurch. The hierarchy of this Newchurch wont let it go so easily.
What you said is of course an option, but when we are talking numbers, all the odds are against the Traditionalists. A simple issue is the Mass. The vast majority of people who still attend the NOM are happy with it. That's been my experience over the years. Even when the TLM has been made available under diocesan auspices, in relative terms, there have been virtually no takers.
BTW, I did NOT put a dislike on your post!
Thanks for the reply. The dislikes are no big deal :laugh1: I do use the feature myself at times without commenting, both likes and dislikes.
The fact that they are outnumbered is undeniable but they are outnumbered either way. I just feel that the worst is over and a very slow, at first, reversal towards orthodoxy has begun. Since BXVI's SP freeing the Gregorian Rite, there are just so many clergy speaking out on matters that would never have been mentioned during JPII's years. Schneider, Ranjith, and others are saying and doing things trad clergy might do. Shockingly, the USCCB is actually standing up to absurd secular demands.
All is not well of course, but seeing as though we have no divine powers ourselves, it is a bit much imo to just sit back and wait for a pope to come along and be "the perfect pope". This fiasco has gone on too long to be fixed by absurd demands. The NO needs to go, but it needs to die out, not be arrogated suddenly at the expense of the TLM's that would suffer the attitudes of priests who simply don't want to pray them.
One case of this has happened in my town in a different way. An old priest in his 90's who prayed the local indult TLM for many years has had to stop for health reasons. The pastor of the parish knew this was coming and began learning the TLM. I suppose he felt a duty to do so, but he wasn't honest with himself. It was so obvious that he was praying a Mass he felt obliged to pray, but didn't want to pray. No High Mass for quite some time after he took over. And the sermons ? 9 of 10 were tainted with "me-itis". Like so many NO priests, he has a tad of narcissism in him. The last Mass I attended prayed by him was right before the new NO changes, and here he was, devoting the entire time on the pulpit, asking the local diocesan TLM community to "please pick up the laminated guides to the new changes for the Ordinary Form .... there should be several in each pew"
:facepalm:
I looked around and there were a few looking at them, but most were looking around as well and as he spoke for nearly 30 minutes, the majority of us just sat there. He had to notice it wasn't going over well. But, step by step, one change at a time, he explained it all and offered his opinion why each change was good. He made it a point to explain why he was doing this ....... "because there will be a day when you will be attending the Ordinary Form for a marriage or baptism"
Oh really ?
(Thankfully, the Archbishop is transferring him to another NO parish where he won't annoy the TLM community. He is being replaced by a priest who LOVES the TLM and actually focuses on the day's Gospel as he delivers orthodox sermons. )
So no, the Church will not get back on track until the majority of new priests each year are orthodox/TLM praying priests. It's going to take a few years, and it seems to me the SSPX could be of help there.
Look what one priest can do for souls
http://www.cantius.org/go/about_us/category/video_about_saint_john_cantius_church/
I think the SSPX chapels and schools will thrive as those who hesitate today, won't once it becomes "ok" to support them. We here know it's ok today, but the mainstream Catholic who is curious but hesitant will feel no stigma at last.
jmo
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His Excellency Bishop Williamson visited South Korea, visited Akita Japn from May 5th to May 7th 2012.
Maybe some of them who went to that pilgrimage would try to upload his pilgrimage video. But I don't know whether she would upload His Excellency's Sermon Video. Because SG don't want the release of that video.
http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=9340
Thanks for your informations, I really appreciate them. The brave Bishop from England unfortunately can't enter our German-zone territory anymore (until God will have razed out our satanic Zionist regimes).
I downloaded your earlier linked video of the Bishop's sermon in Sout Korea. Great and thank you.
I'd love to see the video you mentioned from the Akita pilgrimage with the Bishop. On the photos there's even one flag showing the Bishop's emblem. :-)
Well, let's see how long the sellout Bishop Fellay will still be general of the brave Bishop Williamson and his allied bishops and priests!
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Keep up the fight. It is obligation to tell everyone. I am a parishioner from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. Our district superior Fr. Couture has been giving us Mass every Sunday for the last month..
I am the only one distributing all the docuмents to people. All have chose to ignore and just listen to what Fr. COuture says....just pray..everything will be okay.
I don't buy all that. Every week the news from him contradicts..like the communique from Bp. Fellay.
We must be ready to take actions when all falls into place. It is time for spring cleaning.
I joined yesterday. You joined today. Grave danger toward us make us do something, like joining this forum to share our future.
Fr. Daniel were not there when His Excellency Bishop Williamson visit Akita Japan, May 6th.
I think Fr. Daniel is Soft-Liner.
Hi Lucca, I also live in South Korea but in Busan. (you know me)
Welcome to the forum, I went to Seoul last Wednesday but Bp Williamson trip was delayed by 2 days. I had many questions for him so I am glad I you are sharing your experience. I definitely oppose an agreement but I'm unfamiliar with the views of the rest of the people at the parish in Seoul. I suspected that they would not realize the danger as you said.
Deo Gratias! Very nice to see you again here in catholic forum,
Check out the visit schedule of His Execllency Bishop Williamson, Early Next week he will come again Seoul. His Excellency was very humble and so kind. He answered my questions very kindly.
schedule-www.SSPX.KR
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Bishop Williamson preached a fantastic sermon on St Patrick's Day in Ireland.The sermon has made a lasting impression on the faithful, who are fully girded for the battle.
People made the effort to travel from other chapels in the District to welcome him and hear him preach. It was the same for Bishop Tissier when he visited for confirmations in 2010.
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Bishop Williamson preached a fantastic sermon on St Patrick's Day in Ireland.The sermon has made a lasting impression on the faithful, who are fully girded for the battle.
People made the effort to travel from other chapels in the District to welcome him and hear him preach. It was the same for Bishop Tissier when he visited for confirmations in 2010.
I love to hear His Excellency's sermon.
So, I bought 30 cds in the Triumph and 4 books of Letters from Rector.
One interview cd from TrueRestoration.
If some one have the recording file of His Excellecy's sermon, please let us listen. His Excellency will be back mid May to UK.
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The bishop stuck in Asia while his organisation is being reformed and reorganised is not a good sign. He needs to be in his Anglo-Saxon heartland where his future will be, rallying his supporters. The same with the other bishops. If they stay in the background, Fellay will succeed by default.
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Bishop Williamson preached a fantastic sermon on St Patrick's Day in Ireland.The sermon has made a lasting impression on the faithful, who are fully girded for the battle.
Great to hear. Is this sermon available electronically, somewhere? Needless to say, we'd love to hear it.
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The bishop stuck in Asia while his organisation is being reformed and reorganised is not a good sign.
His recent mini sermon in South Korea (~ 5 minutes) about St. Monica (mother of St. Aurelius Augustinus) was great; see Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN9KUhAB4_0). He's in good shape on that video I think: serious and with humor, like we know him from good old times. He makes a good impression; geared up to do battle I think! (His ECs of the last months underline this impression totally.)
This true man of God says more in 5 minutes than certain generals say in 50 minutes...
So the Bishop Lionheart is serving God right now and insofar he'll be prepared best also for the final battle of the SSPX. He's with God and thus we can be sure he'll do the right thing at the right time. There's no better commanding officer than Our Lord himself. Let's never forget this.
Btw, that the bishop shortened his Asia service shows he knows what is coming.
He needs to be in his Anglo-Saxon heartland where his future will be, rallying his supporters. The same with the other bishops. If they stay in the background, Fellay will succeed by default.
Well, let's see about that.
There's one thing Bp Fellay and his sellout team haven't reckoned with: God.
So let's keep the faith. Man proposes, God disposes!
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As someone else pointed out, Bishop Williamson has been teaching seminarians and preaching for years that the only thing that makes the SSPX "special" is its fidelity to the Faith -- it's uncompromising position holding 100% of the True Faith.
If it compromises or sells out, it will be cast out like salt that has lost its savor, and God will raise up another organization "from the very stones" if need be.
He always taught his seminarians not to become complacent in the SSPX's greatness, as if it has any greatness of itself.
Let's face it: we already have plenty of Trad groups "on the inside" and how much good have they done between the lot of them?
Why do we need one more? What's so special about the SSPX in particular? Nothing, really. The only reason it's so big is that some people want the full package of truth, not just smells and bells.
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Is this sermon available electronically, somewhere? Needless to say, we'd love to hear it.
Perhaps some faithful recorded it. I shall enquire but importantly he preached for about 50 minutes. Don't worry the 'money men' were mentioned.
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...
Let's face it: we already have plenty of Trad groups "on the inside" and how much good have they done between the lot of them?
...
Yes, traditional groups will lose if they enter the conciliar church.
And they will fail to convert Apostate Rome.
The other traditional groups who have gone over to the conciliar church have crumbled.
And their faith appears to have crumbled as well.
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Bishop Fellay is leading the Society into a trap that they might never be able to wiggle their way out of. It's not looking good.
As Matthew noted, how much good can you do if you're basically chained by Rome? Yet some people claim Rome is going to give them "complete freedom" to speak out against anything they want. That is a huge lie.
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Bishop Fellay is leading the Society into a trap that they might never be able to wiggle their way out of. It's not looking good.
As Matthew noted, how much good can you do if you're basically chained by Rome? Yet some people claim Rome is going to give them "complete freedom" to speak out against anything they want. That is a huge lie.
Dear Spiritus,
This is an incisive post.
Yes, It is obviously a trap.
How can people not see this?
Especially as there are people pointing it out, like the people making posts here.
They will be mute if they are chained to Rome. The vigour will go out of them.
They will be too concerned to placate their new masters.
They certainly will not get complete freedom.
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They certainly will not get complete freedom.
As far as I know they are not even pretending to offer such a freedom right now either. They have made it quite clear that they want the Society to accept the robber council and to cease attacking it. They are offering a golden cage to the lion in exchange for it's teeth.
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Yes, and already they have decreased their criticisms of Vatican II.
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The bishop stuck in Asia while his organisation is being reformed and reorganised is not a good sign. He needs to be in his Anglo-Saxon heartland where his future will be, rallying his supporters. The same with the other bishops. If they stay in the background, Fellay will succeed by default.
Bishop Williamson should be back in Britain either today (14th May) or tomorrow.
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Oh, good. I hope they have not changed the locks in Wimbledon!
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Does anyone know who is : Côme de Prévigny?
Not really. He is a voice in the 'conservative' camp that is used to lambaste trad hardliners and attempts to sift out the 'good' points of Abp. Lefebvre that are useful in the reconciliation campaign.
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Fr Joven Soliman of Manila, ordained by the SSPX, is now an independent priest in Manila.
Fr Soliman is a sedevacantist as can be seen here: http://www.christorchaos.com/AnInterviewWithFatherJovenSoliman.htm
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Fr Joven Soliman of Manila, ordained by the SSPX, is now an independent priest in Manila.
Fr Soliman is a sedevacantist as can be seen here: http://www.christorchaos.com/AnInterviewWithFatherJovenSoliman.htm
Better than that perennial Vacationist of Asia District!
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Yes, and already they have decreased their criticisms of Vatican II.
And make no mistake about it: that is part of the deal!
In order for +Fellay to become a "free and accepted mason" in the Vatican, his
task at hand is to demonstrate that his followers will not criticize the unclean
spirit of Vatican II.
This is the same tactic that was used 50 years ago in the Balamand Agreement,
wherein the serpents undermining Vatican II promised not to allow any
mention of Communism in the council, let alone criticism of Communism.
We are standing on the cusp of a cataclysmic precipice and we do not know it.
We will only become aware of the present danger when we begin our fall
into the abyss, at which time it will be too late to avert it.
The 3 faithful bishops must take action now before it is too late.
They must obtain some kind of staying order in the courts in the district of
Menzingen, the Fellayite Bunkerville, to prevent +Fellay from handing over
all the SSPX properties and assets to Rome in one fell swoop.
Otherwise, it's back to the basement, the woodshed, the catacombs.
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Better than that perennial Vacationist of Asia District!
That's calumny, you know?
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...It's almost like there's a "don't ask, don't tell" policy among the resident priests and faithful...
I discussed my concerns with one of our priests. He did not even know the name Maximilian Krah, much less of what Krah has done.
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Yes, and already they have decreased their criticisms of Vatican II.
...AND scrubbed their websites of authentic teaching on the adversaries to all men WHILE laughably telling us the "deal" will not cause the Faith to be denied one iota.
As a group we deserve what we get.
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...We are standing on the cusp of a cataclysmic precipice and we do not know it. ...
We know it. The End is near.
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Better than that perennial Vacationist of Asia District!
That's calumny, you know?
Not to me it isn't.
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Fr Couture likes AIRLINERS the best, going here, there and everywhere ( except to be seen anywhere near Bishop Williamson!).
Latest picture of Bp Williamson and Fr Couture.
http://www. sspxasia . com/Countries/Philippines/OLVC%202011/Photo%20Gallery/Bishop%20Williamson%202012/images/2.jpg
Fr Couture is also almost always seen beside Bp Williamson during ordinations, so what are you talking about? It seems like you have a personal vendetta against the good Father.
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Fr Couture likes AIRLINERS the best, going here, there and everywhere ( except to be seen anywhere near Bishop Williamson!).
Latest picture of Bp Williamson and Fr Couture.
http://www. sspxasia . com/Countries/Philippines/OLVC%202011/Photo%20Gallery/Bishop%20Williamson%202012/images/2.jpg
Fr Couture is also almost always seen beside Bp Williamson during ordinations, so what are you talking about? It seems like you have a personal vendetta against the good Father.
Calumny. Personal vendetta. Please yourself.
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Latest picture of Bp Williamson and Fr Couture.
http://www. sspxasia . com/Countries/Philippines/OLVC%202011/Photo%20Gallery/Bishop%20Williamson%202012/images/2.jpg
Fr Couture is also almost always seen beside Bp Williamson during ordinations, so what are you talking about? It seems like you have a personal vendetta against the good Father.
Pictures can give very wrong impressions. We know for sure however that Fr Couture stands firmly behind Bishop Fellay, unfortunately, and so "naturally" he's not on the side of Bishop Williamson. That's the sad reality. AJNC obviously knows it. So please, dear Trento, don't attack him. He stands behind our brave Bishop Richard "Lionheart" Williamson, whilst the Father does not.
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Bishop Willaimson's sermon in South Korea on 15 May 2012 (There are a few words missing in the transcription.)
His Excellency Bishop Williamson, South Korea, 15th May 2012
Just a few words . . . before the Feast of the Ascension the day after tomorrow.
We need to pray a good deal for peace and unity in the Faith. When the Reformation happened there was a terrible division between Catholics and Protestants. When Vatican II took place many Catholic families were torn apart between those who wanted to keep the Faith and those who wanted to go with the modern world.
Today again the Society of Saint Pius X is being strongly pulled towards Vatican II and there may possibly again be a division. It’s very sad and it’s very difficult. It’s a dreadful situation, because the reason for going towards Vatican II is to go back towards Rome, which is good. The problem is that Rome is still . . . Vatican II, and therefore if the Society goes with this Rome, it risks getting on the road to Vatican II.
So there are going to be arguments on both sides and there will be people convinced on both sides. So there is likely again to be division, and the division will sooner or later come here as well. We pray that the Society will not make a mistake, but if it does - I think it’s a mistake - if it does make that mistake, prepare for difficulties. Never cease to pray. Ask the Mother of God for her guidance.
I am very impressed by the little chapel here and I am impressed by the way you’re keeping the Faith in a big modern city, which is not easy. But the more you serve God here, the more angry the devil will be. The devil will do everything he can to shut down this chapel. But there is an old proverb: You cross your bridges when you come to them. Our Lord also says, "Sufficient to the day is the evil thereof." So we’re not going to worry today about tomorrow’s problems. But it is wise to be prepared in case the problems arise. Be prepared for division and for the devil to attempt to destroy this chapel.
Above all, quietly pray, and pray to the Mother of God. God will never abandon the soul who has not first abandoned Him, said Saint Augustine. And therefore, if you wish to stay with God, God will not let you go.
You all of you know how much Dr. Kim has done for this chapel and so this Mass is being offered for her intentions and the intentions of all the chapel, so that if possible the chapel may continue for the glory and love of God. But be prepared for the devil to attack. Mary, remember, has him under her feet, she treads on the serpent, and so trust in the Mother of God.
In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.
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Pictures can give very wrong impressions. We know for sure however that Fr Couture stands firmly behind Bishop Fellay, unfortunately, and so "naturally" he's not on the side of Bishop Williamson. That's the sad reality. AJNC obviously knows it. So please, dear Trento, don't attack him. He stands behind our brave Bishop Richard "Lionheart" Williamson, whilst the Father does not.
And, pray tell, how does AJNC 'obviously knows it' besides what he himself claims? Fr Couture has said that he too is waiting for the details to come out before deciding on anything, and in the meantime exhorts all to pray for a good outcome. Is that considered Modernist too? :facepalm:
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Pictures can give very wrong impressions. We know for sure however that Fr Couture stands firmly behind Bishop Fellay, unfortunately, and so "naturally" he's not on the side of Bishop Williamson. That's the sad reality. AJNC obviously knows it. So please, dear Trento, don't attack him. He stands behind our brave Bishop Richard "Lionheart" Williamson, whilst the Father does not.
And, pray tell, how does AJNC 'obviously knows it' besides what he himself claims? Fr Couture has said that he too is waiting for the details to come out before deciding on anything, and in the meantime exhorts all to pray for a good outcome. Is that considered Modernist too? :facepalm:
Fifteen years of observation. Not infallible for sure. I'm only posting on this site because it supports Bishop Williamson, who is the only SSPX cleric who has spoken openly against having any deal with the Conciliar Church.
This is what the Forum owner says:
Please pray for Bishop Richard Williamson, a noble prelate whose wisdom and zeal for the truth have inspired many.
Several months ago, the good Bishop was taken from the public eye, and de-facto forced into early retirement.
"I have loved justice and hated iniquity; therefore I die in exile." - Pope Gregory VII
One of the priests of the district has told me what I already felt was the case, that Fr Couture is in favour of the deal. But he has told you that he is waiting for the details to come out before before deciding on anything - fair enough. You have it first hand from him. while I do not
I am praying that the details come out as soon as possible so that all can make the decision.
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Bishop Willaimson's sermon in South Korea on 15 May 2012 (There are a few words missing in the transcription.)
His Excellency Bishop Williamson, South Korea, 15th May 2012
Just a few words . . . before the Feast of the Ascension the day after tomorrow.
We need to pray a good deal for peace and unity in the Faith. When the Reformation happened there was a terrible division between Catholics and Protestants. When Vatican II took place many Catholic families were torn apart between those who wanted to keep the Faith and those who wanted to go with the modern world.
Today again the Society of Saint Pius X is being strongly pulled towards Vatican II and there may possibly again be a division. It’s very sad and it’s very difficult. It’s a dreadful situation, because the reason for going towards Vatican II is to go back towards Rome, which is good. The problem is that Rome is still . . . Vatican II, and therefore if the Society goes with this Rome, it risks getting on the road to Vatican II.
So there are going to be arguments on both sides and there will be people convinced on both sides. So there is likely again to be division, and the division will sooner or later come here as well. We pray that the Society will not make a mistake, but if it does - I think it’s a mistake - if it does make that mistake, prepare for difficulties. Never cease to pray. Ask the Mother of God for her guidance.
I am very impressed by the little chapel here and I am impressed by the way you’re keeping the Faith in a big modern city, which is not easy. But the more you serve God here, the more angry the devil will be. The devil will do everything he can to shut down this chapel. But there is an old proverb: You cross your bridges when you come to them. Our Lord also says, "Sufficient to the day is the evil thereof." So we’re not going to worry today about tomorrow’s problems. But it is wise to be prepared in case the problems arise. Be prepared for division and for the devil to attempt to destroy this chapel.
Above all, quietly pray, and pray to the Mother of God. God will never abandon the soul who has not first abandoned Him, said Saint Augustine. And therefore, if you wish to stay with God, God will not let you go.
You all of you know how much Dr. Kim has done for this chapel and so this Mass is being offered for her intentions and the intentions of all the chapel, so that if possible the chapel may continue for the glory and love of God. But be prepared for the devil to attack. Mary, remember, has him under her feet, she treads on the serpent, and so trust in the Mother of God.
In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.
Thanks for this. Bishop Williamson is so open and honest! Note also how he publicly appreciates the hard work put in by a layperson.
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Kudos to fellow AJNC!!! You are right on the money about our well-traveled district superior... here, there, and no where??? And I know what I'm talking about! There is serious house cleaning to do within the SSPX starting with abuse of power, position, and mula$$$
:whistleblower:
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Kudos to fellow AJNC!!! You are right on the money about our well-traveled district superior... here, there, and no where??? And I know what I'm talking about! There is serious house cleaning to do within the SSPX starting with abuse of power, position, and mula$$$
:whistleblower:
Praise be Jesus and His most holy Mother!
What will happen to the District? In India, very surprisingly, the opponents of the TLM were the older priests who were formed entirely in Latin! Most of them are dead now. The younger priests are pretty tolerant - more than many of the NO layfolk who are happy with the NOM. But will the dioceses keep the SSPX out "to avoid division"? Some of the mass centers here sprung up because local people had feuds with the diocese. Will they be allowed to continue? The diocese where the priory is situated is familiar with the SSPX and may let it function without any problems.
Do you have any idea about the Philippines - the largest group? Will it be able to go to China and Vietnam? Will the Religious Police of Malaysia and Indonesia grant it clearance?
There are two very fervent priest disciples of Bishop Williamson in the district. May they be the instruments of Providence in our midst!.
Praise the Lord again for your post and may His holy will be done!
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Asia district is pathetic to say the least! I am so sick of the hypocrisy & abuse of power that is currently tolerated. My Holy God have mercy on our priests!!! They have nothing on St. Francis Xavier! Archbishop Lefebvre converted & saved many because of his own sanctity & detachment from power & money. Please remember that SSPX is a very young order & must be tried by fire & hopefully purged from the top down.
AJNC & all concerned: I hate to admit it but Asia district is such a poorly neglected apostolate! How should I say this...a vacation place to kick back & hang out. I pray that it survives! The Philippines should be its own district with its own superior because it lacks proper representation & is treated like a charity case. This ticks me off!!! I know I will be singled out for posting this but I really don't care! The truth needs to come out. Anyway, you only need to visit to see for yourselves. :facepalm:
Our perpetual traveler needs to step down & be replaced by someone with real genuine missionary zeal in the penitential spirit of St. Francis Xavier. And saving souls should take priority over medical missions!!!
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http://resistance-catholique.org/articles_html/2012/05/RC_2012-05-19_QUELQUES-INFORMATIONS-ET-CONSIDERATIONS-SUR-LE-RALLIEMENT-EN-COURS.html
internet translation
The recent diffusion on Internet and in the media of an exchange of mails between Mgr Fellay and the three other bishops seems to have involved a certain panic in the camp of the rallying.
Mgr Bernard Fellay
Mgr Fellay: a discredited chief and more and more isolated!
Already, a few times before, the languages had started to be untied.
The Innocent-Marie Father in one of his recent sermons had fustigated any agreement with modernistic Rome while denouncing directly and by name Mgr Fellay.
While several abbots do not hesitate any more to announce here or there their refusal to accept any rallying, a certain frenzy seized the unconditional partisans of Mgr Fellay who called at once with obedience towards the Superior general “who has only the graces to decide” (sic!). Their cowardice is so coarse that they become pitiful about it.
Whereas they had been opposed to an agreement in 1988, the Dominican teaching ones of Fanjeaux blindly support Mgr Fellay and its process letting predict future particularly dramatic divisions within the schools and certain families.
It is not the case on the other hand of the majority of the contemplative communities. Thus last on May 8, the superiors of Sown in April (Dominican), Morgon (capuchins) and Bellaigue (Benedictines) went to meet Mgr Fellay to try to dissuade it to accept any canonical agreement with the Vatican.
Contrary to several superiors of District (America, Asia, Belgium…) who quickly expressed a support supported towards the Superior general of the FSSPX, the abbot of Cacqueray speaks little. Anxious like the majority of its fellow-members, it is afraid of what Mgr Fellay to soon will impose them. Divided between obedience with its superior and the revulsion which it would have to have to be attached to the Conciliaire church that it exècre, it trembles. Remained deaf with all the received warnings priests and the faithful ones who had for a long time distinguished at Mgr Fellay the will to rejoin conciliar Rome, there is well obliged to go today obviously.
In its rare public appearances (between two return tickets between Menzingen and Rome), Mgr Fellay appears very tended. He and its Assistants make the account of the opponents declared or possible and hold informed from day to day the Vatican of the state of the “reaction”.
Present last Sunday in Austria for confirmations, Mgr Fellay denounced the action of the Devil within the FSSPX! Devil being obviously, according to him, in the camp of those which refuse the rallying!
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Asia district is pathetic to say the least! I am so sick of the hypocrisy & abuse of power that is currently tolerated. My Holy God have mercy on our priests!!! They have nothing on St. Francis Xavier! Archbishop Lefebvre converted & saved many because of his own sanctity & detachment from power & money. Please remember that SSPX is a very young order & must be tried by fire & hopefully purged from the top down.
AJNC & all concerned: I hate to admit it but Asia district is such a poorly neglected apostolate! How should I say this...a vacation place to kick back & hang out. I pray that it survives! The Philippines should be its own district with its own superior because it lacks proper representation & is treated like a charity case. This ticks me off!!! I know I will be singled out for posting this but I really don't care! The truth needs to come out. Anyway, you only need to visit to see for yourselves. :facepalm:
Our perpetual traveler needs to step down & be replaced by someone with real genuine missionary zeal in the penitential spirit of St. Francis Xavier. And saving souls should take priority over medical missions!!!
In 2008 there was a time when some people thought a Rome-SSPX deal was imminent. One priest of the Asia District told me then that he was relieved that no deal occurred as he feared that it would spell the end of the district as the local bishops would not support a "recognised" SSPX.
"Our man in Asia" has of course been cultivating the Novus Ordo hierarchy, notably Cardinal Ranjith of Colombo. I cannot be sure but I have heard that this diocese even sponsors his visa!
When the deal takes place the future of Asia District will be much in the balance, unless, of course, some sweeteners are arranged for the local Novus Ordo.
If so, I wonder who will be chosen for the job. Can you guess ??? !!!!!
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Asia district is pathetic to say the least! I am so sick of the hypocrisy & abuse of power that is currently tolerated. My Holy God have mercy on our priests!!! They have nothing on St. Francis Xavier! Archbishop Lefebvre converted & saved many because of his own sanctity & detachment from power & money. Please remember that SSPX is a very young order & must be tried by fire & hopefully purged from the top down.
AJNC & all concerned: I hate to admit it but Asia district is such a poorly neglected apostolate! How should I say this...a vacation place to kick back & hang out. I pray that it survives! The Philippines should be its own district with its own superior because it lacks proper representation & is treated like a charity case. This ticks me off!!! I know I will be singled out for posting this but I really don't care! The truth needs to come out. Anyway, you only need to visit to see for yourselves. :facepalm:
Our perpetual traveler needs to step down & be replaced by someone with real genuine missionary zeal in the penitential spirit of St. Francis Xavier. And saving souls should take priority over medical missions!!!
So you think spiritual health was neglected at the medical missions? Think again. http://www.acim-asia.com/Medical_Mission_2012_day5.htm (http://www.acim-asia.com/Medical_Mission_2012_day5.htm)
And probably they should appoint you as the District Superior of Philippines, right? :)
IF I speak with the tongues of men, and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries, and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And if I should distribute all my goods to feed the poor, and if I should deliver my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth with the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
Charity never falleth away: whether prophecies shall be made void, or tongues shall cease, or knowledge shall be destroyed. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child. But, when I became a man, I put away the things of a child. We see now through a glass in a dark manner; but then face to face. Now I know I part; but then I shall know even as I am known. And now there remain faith, hope, and charity, these three: but the greatest of these is charity.
1 Corinthians:13
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I feel sorry for the Asian District. Fr Couture was a disaster in Ireland. What is the main objection with these medical missions? There must be something wrong when local people are critical. A girl from an Irish chapel has volunteered over there. There won't be any improvement whilst that Fr Couture is in charge.He turned people way from the SSPX during his time in Ireland.
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I feel sorry for the Asian District. Fr Couture was a disaster in Ireland. What is the main objection with these medical missions? There must be something wrong when local people are critical. A girl from an Irish chapel has volunteered over there. There won't be any improvement whilst that Fr Couture is in charge.He turned people way from the SSPX during his time in Ireland.
I'm local. Zorayda's not (she's in the US of A btw). How many local people are critical of these medical missions?
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Asia district is pathetic to say the least! I am so sick of the hypocrisy & abuse of power that is currently tolerated. My Holy God have mercy on our priests!!! They have nothing on St. Francis Xavier! Archbishop Lefebvre converted & saved many because of his own sanctity & detachment from power & money. Please remember that SSPX is a very young order & must be tried by fire & hopefully purged from the top down.
AJNC & all concerned: I hate to admit it but Asia district is such a poorly neglected apostolate! How should I say this...a vacation place to kick back & hang out. I pray that it survives! The Philippines should be its own district with its own superior because it lacks proper representation & is treated like a charity case. This ticks me off!!! I know I will be singled out for posting this but I really don't care! The truth needs to come out. Anyway, you only need to visit to see for yourselves. :facepalm:
Our perpetual traveler needs to step down & be replaced by someone with real genuine missionary zeal in the penitential spirit of St. Francis Xavier. And saving souls should take priority over medical missions!!!
Zorayda,
I've heard this complaint before, that the Asia District is a shambles.
Based on everything else that's going on in the SSPX, I've speculated that Asia is a dumping ground for priests who ask too many questions or show independent thinking. Am I mistaken?
I know for sure the Asia District is afraid to evangelize "Faith starved" Japan.
They appear to quiver in fear of the shogun authority displayed by
Japan's Novus ordo hierarchy.
Its rumored, that two SSPX priests (brothers) based in the Phillipines,
are raring to shake-up Japan, if ever given the chance.
So maybe, +F's hijacking of the SSPX will result in a purging of the weaklings sympathetic to the conciliar mess and bring on a new spirit of evangelization?
The quality of our priests, not the quantiiy is what will prevail.
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I feel sorry for the Asian District. Fr Couture was a disaster in Ireland. What is the main objection with these medical missions? There must be something wrong when local people are critical. A girl from an Irish chapel has volunteered over there. There won't be any improvement whilst that Fr Couture is in charge.He turned people way from the SSPX during his time in Ireland.
Oh, I'd love to see Father Rostand, the big Frenchman, give Ireland a try.
He'd grow in humilty, appreciation of stout beers and in grey hairs.
:dancing:
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Speaking of Fr. Rostand, was his recent interview with RemnantNewspaper ever posted here? I can post it if it wasn't. I don't recall seeing it here. Some of the things he said were... well, let's just say "interesting", so as to remain charitable.
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Based on everything else that's going on in the SSPX, I've speculated that Asia is a dumping ground for priests who ask too many questions or show independent thinking. Am I mistaken?
I know for sure the Asia District is afraid to evangelize "Faith starved" Japan.
They appear to quiver in fear of the shogun authority displayed by
Japan's Novus ordo hierarchy.
Its rumored, that two SSPX priests (brothers) based in the Phillipines,
are raring to shake-up Japan, if ever given the chance.
So maybe, +F's hijacking of the SSPX will result in a purging of the weaklings sympathetic to the conciliar mess and bring on a new spirit of evangelization?
The quality of our priests, not the quantiiy is what will prevail.[/color]
Rumours and speculations, but no facts. Asia district is for priests with the missionary spirit, not particularly suitable for those who are too comfortable staying in their priories and rectories. On Sundays, they can even travel around for about 3 or more Sunday Masses in different locations. And tell me, why should the Asia District fear the Japanese Novus Ordo hierarchy? They have ruffled up the archbishops/bishops in Singapore, Philippines, Malaysia (those that I know of based on official statements in diocesan newspapers). So what makes Japan any different?
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Hey Trento! I live in the Philippines and we own property there. I relocated 3 years ago so I see the difference between the apostolate in the west & the apostolate in Asia. I've also traveled around Asia. Right now I am vacationing in the US where my children study. Yes Trento, I am actually a real person & a RC mother of 7. I also know the priests pretty well. We have good Catholic priests but a poorly managed shabby district & to think how big Asia is & yet how very little progress has been made in 20 years. I am only stating the obvious. If you ever have a chance to visit Asia, you will see what I'm talking about.
Oh & about those medical missions, we don't have converts (notice plural) from those medical projects. These humanitarian events are only held once a year! Poor Filipinos will go because they're free not because they are sponsored by a Catholic organization. There are many medical missions sponsored by multiple organizations throughout Asia.
The medical mission is a big fund raiser and yet our missions suffer terribly. Maybe if the district superior will start actually visiting the missions, he can see with his own eyes how neglected they are. And maybe if he will start asking Menzingen to send us more experienced priests like Fr. Paul Morgan & we are allowed to keep them long enough to establish strong & stable schools & chapels then maybe we will actually get some where!
Asia doesn't need sympathy. We need workers!
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Based on everything else that's going on in the SSPX, I've speculated that Asia is a dumping ground for priests who ask too many questions or show independent thinking. Am I mistaken?
I know for sure the Asia District is afraid to evangelize "Faith starved" Japan.
They appear to quiver in fear of the shogun authority displayed by
Japan's Novus ordo hierarchy.
Its rumored, that two SSPX priests (brothers) based in the Phillipines,
are raring to shake-up Japan, if ever given the chance.
So maybe, +F's hijacking of the SSPX will result in a purging of the weaklings sympathetic to the conciliar mess and bring on a new spirit of evangelization?
The quality of our priests, not the quantiiy is what will prevail.[/color]
Rumours and speculations, but no facts. Asia district is for priests with the missionary spirit, not particularly suitable for those who are too comfortable staying in their priories and rectories. On Sundays, they can even travel around for about 3 or more Sunday Masses in different locations. And tell me, why should the Asia District fear the Japanese Novus Ordo hierarchy? They have ruffled up the archbishops/bishops in Singapore, Philippines, Malaysia (those that I know of based on official statements in diocesan newspapers). So what makes Japan any different?
.
You don't know Japan my friend.
Nor of the lack of SSPX activity there.
The only priest in the country who honors our Lord daily with a TLM
is an 81 year old independent priest, Father John Nariai.
The Tokyo Diocese has suppressed him by not allowing his TLM in any Diocesean church and from preventing him to go out and offer the Sacraments of Extreme Unction and Baptism.
There is no SSPX chapel in Japan and barely one Mass per month,
while Japan with it's Catholic roots and is ripe for re-evangelization.
In the land of St. Francis Xavier,
the Mormons are running circles around the SSPX.
:mad:
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Hey Trento! I live in the Philippines and we own property there. I relocated 3 years ago so I see the difference between the apostolate in the west & the apostolate in Asia. I've also traveled around Asia. Right now I am vacationing in the US where my children study. Yes Trento, I am actually a real person & a RC mother of 7. I also know the priests pretty well. We have good Catholic priests but a poorly managed shabby district & to think how big Asia is & yet how very little progress has been made in 20 years. I am only stating the obvious. If you ever have a chance to visit Asia, you will see what I'm talking about.
Oh & about those medical missions, we don't have converts (notice plural) from those medical projects. These humanitarian events are only held once a year! Poor Filipinos will go because they're free not because they are sponsored by a Catholic organization. There are many medical missions sponsored by multiple organizations throughout Asia.
The medical mission is a big fund raiser and yet our missions suffer terribly. Maybe if the district superior will start actually visiting the missions, he can see with his own eyes how neglected they are. And maybe if he will start asking Menzingen to send us more experienced priests like Fr. Paul Morgan & we are allowed to keep them long enough to establish strong & stable schools & chapels then maybe we will actually get some where!
Asia doesn't need sympathy. We need workers!
I personally feel that with an SSPX-Rome deal almost in place the future in Asia does not look bright.
A man from Mumbai was barred by the SSPX priest from the sacraments because he called BpF a "traitor" ( to the Traditionalist cause) on an internet site in 2008. Some of us saw a draft of a letter he wrote sometime back to Cardinal Levada of the CDF with a copy to Cardinal Dias, Prefect Emeritus of PF. He questioned the competency of the SSPX to issue "excommunications" to the faithful, but also gave a brief synopsis of his view of the running of the SSPX Asia District in general with focus on the departure from the Catholic priesthood of two Indian SSPX priests Frs Rajadurai and Alphonse.
If indeed the letter was finally posted that it is likely that BpF would have seen it. If it is given any credence ( Cardinal Dias is personally aquainted with the writer),
then changes in the district are bound to occur.
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We can't be passive! We must organize & together we must protest any wholesale sellout of the SSPX. The very fact that Bp. Williamson made some pretty strong statements in Asia makes it clear to all those who were present, that there are deep divisions. Bp. Fellay thinks we're all going to jump on the bandwagon & sell our souls to those perverts who have hijacked Rome. No way!!! I knew this was coming while so many fell asleep because they've grown too comfortable within their trad bubbles, coffee, donuts & all. After 9 years, I've seen the zeal wane.
I strongly suggest that you hold meetings & confront your priors & pastors in a calm & well organized manner. We need answers & we need transparency. Go from there. Also give them copies of past letters & docuмents by Archbishop Lefebvre & by Bp. Fellay when he was actually against any practical agreement with Rome.
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And Trento: why don't you use your real name and reveal where you are really from? At least Fr. Couture knows who I am. My prior told me that if I'm going to post, I should use my real name.
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We can't be passive! We must organize & together we must protest any wholesale sellout of the SSPX. The very fact that Bp. Williamson made some pretty strong statements in Asia makes it clear to all those who were present, that there are deep divisions. Bp. Fellay thinks we're all going to jump on the bandwagon & sell our souls to those perverts who have hijacked Rome. No way!!! I knew this was coming while so many fell asleep because they've grown too comfortable within their trad bubbles, coffee, donuts & all. After 9 years, I've seen the zeal wane.
I strongly suggest that you hold meetings & confront your priors & pastors in a calm & well organized manner. We need answers & we need transparency. Go from there. Also give them copies of past letters & docuмents by Archbishop Lefebvre & by Bp. Fellay when he was actually against any practical agreement with Rome.
MORE ABOUT ASIA DISTRICT ON THE TIA WEBSITE - PUBLISHED TODAY 25TH MAY.
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SSPX Singapore Prior: ‘TIA Is Sedevacantist’
People Commenting
Dear Tradition in Action,
This is a reply from my SSPX Prior of Singapore on Fr. Meramo after I sent this out to my parishioners in light of all that is happening.
I want all to know what is in the minds of these SSPX priests who are for Bp. Fellay.
Please post this on your site if you deem it worthy.
God Bless,
A.C.
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On Thursday, May 17, 2012, Fr. Laisney wrote:
Dear A.C.,
On the internet, one finds ANYTHING, from the Fathers of the Church to the worst heretic. So one needs discernment, and ought not to accept everything for granted! One should systematically avoid bad sites, not only those against morals, but also and even more those against the faith, be them heretics or schismatics.
Now the site you quote below is sedevacantists, i.e. schismatic. It is most unreliable. I knew Father Meramo; I wrote to him at the time of his departure from SSPX, and he never answered my letters properly. Most of these sedevacantists that I encountered are not capable of reasonable discussion: they think with their emotions, in a simplistic way: that everything and everyone is either all good or all bad; they are incapable of distinctions. Thus they do not conform their thought to reality; they bend reality to their thinking, thus departing from the truth.
In the present situation, Father Couture’s guidance is the right one: keep the Faith and pray for Bishop Fellay and the Pope. Nothing is yet “signed,” so we should not judge that which we do not know.
Be sure I pray for you and for your whole family.
Yours sincerely in Jesus and Mary,
Father François Laisney
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The Editor responds:
Dear A.C.,
Thank you for sending TIA this letter of the Most Reverend Fr. François Laisney.
It is curious to see that he commits a blatant error of judgment when he affirms that TIA is sede-vacantist. As anyone can read in our postings on this matter (check here, here, here, here, here, etc), TIA obviously is not sede-vacantist. Nor does Fr. Meramo appear to be so; his homilies and articles in Spanish can be accessed here.
If it were the case that Fr. Laisney did not know TIA's position, then he should better inform himself before spreading grave accusations against us, since, as he says, “we should not judge that which we do not know.”
It is probable, however, that he did know who we are. Given his unceremonious use of mendacities to divert attention from answering the accusations of Fr. Meramo, I wonder whether he considers he is exempt from the practice of the 8th Commandment, which obliges all Catholics not to give false witness. If this is the case, I ask: Is a priest of the SSPX by the fact of being a member of this organization, or is Fr. Laisney in particular for some other reason, exempt from obeying the 8th Commandment?
If he is exempt, I ask: On what grounds?
If he is not exempt, how can he say a Mass and receive the Body and Blood of Our Lord in the state of sin before making reparation for it and asking forgiveness from those he calumniated?
These are question that imperatively came to my mind when I read the mendacities and duplicities of the Most Reverend Fr. François Laisney.
Cordially,
A.S. Guimarães
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It is probable, however, that he did know who we are. Given his unceremonious use of mendacities to divert attention from answering the accusations of Fr. Meramo, I wonder whether he considers he is exempt from the practice of the 8th Commandment, which obliges all Catholics not to give false witness
This is one of the main problems in the SSPX.
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It's worth mentioning Fr Laisney and 'Krahgate'. It is generally believed Bishop Fellay asked him to do something.In doing so, it raised many questions.
Veritas1961 put some questions to Fr Laisney.
http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=14469
Dear Fr Laisney,
I guess that it is fifteen years or more since we spoke together. I still have fond memories of that meeting, and I thank you once again for the small gift that you presented to me on that occasion. I wish you to bear in mind these opening lines given that you may take what comes after as an attack on your person or your integrity or both. I emphasise now that neither one nor the other is being called into question.
There follows what is alleged to be a letter from you to an unknown correspondent. It was posted on the English language forum, Ignis Ardens, by “Credo” on December 16, 2010, at 04:07 PM. In posting this purported letter from you, “Credo” made it clear that it had been sent to him anonymously with the request that it be posted on the internet. Viewing the content and deeming it worthy of posting, he did so but he did not guarantee its authenticity for the good reason that ONLY YOU could guarantee that it was your work. After its posting, I took direct communication with “Credo” and asked him did he have any knowledge of either the unknown correspondent or the anonymous person requesting its posting. The answer to both questions was in the negative. In his defence, he pointed out that you were a known figure in the SSPX, that you had addressed a subject that was a major issue in Tradition right now, and he saw nothing that smacked of rumour, hearsay or bad faith in the posting. I would also point out that Ignis Ardens has been in existence for a good number of years and it has earned, unlike other forums in Tradition, a reputation for moderation in expression as well as a deep loyalty to the Catholic heritage handed down by Archbishop Lefebvre.
My first request of you, then, is to ask you to read the unedited letter below:
I am apalled at the art to raise unsubstantiated suspicions and calumnies! I quote: "Two of his fellow senior Bishops, Bishop Williamson and Bishop Tissier de Mallerais do not appear to be on any boards representing SSPX assets, which indeed appears odd." Bishop Williamson used to be a member of our association at Winona so long as he was the superior there; he was also on several local associations in the N.E. USA so long as they were served by the seminary. Bishop Tissier was in many companies when he was secretary general. And I was also in many companies when I was district superior in USA, or bursar general. But in the SSPX, we hold positions in companies by virtue of our office in the SSPX, not in our personal name; so when we change office, our successor takes our place in these companies. NOTHING ODD there at all, on the contrary! This is precisely the spirit of poverty and detachment befitting priests and ministers of Christ. Another example of calumnies: "The fact that the SSPX appears to be involved in international financial markets..." Sorry, this is simply not true. Assets management was the purpose of the company mentioned at the previous paragraph; how did "asset management" become "involvement in international financial markets" is precisely how calumnies start... Again, as previous bursar general, I can testify that the SSPX is NOT involved in financial markets speculation or usury of any kind! On the contrary, we strive to avoid the financial world; thus if a chapel has some savings, we organise that it be lent to another chapel that had a debt, either at no interest at all, or at low interest to offset devaluation. Thus even that low interest that one chapel pays still goes to help another chapel's future projects: the collections of the faithful do not go to feed the bankers, but rather to foster good Catholic projects. Maximilian Krah is one of our faithful, and an competent attorney that has helped us many times before in cases mainly dealing with legacies in our favour, contested by others. He successfully defended our rights. He gives us competent "legal counsels" especially in matters of legacies in the German speaking world; there is nothing unusual at that at all, on the contrary (we have similar legal counsels in each big district: France, USA... usually our faithful. Honesty and competence is the criteria, not political views). Note that Mr. Krah's involvement with the CDU consisted in a donation to a convent (Kloster St Marienthal): if that is the only thing you found against him, that is not much to worry... Mr Krah is not a Jew, though he may have some Jєωιѕн friends, which is not uncommon in the legal world. If DICI said that Wolfram Nahrath was linked to neo-nαzιs, it was not because of his link with the NPD, but rather with his link with two other groups (Bishop Fellay told me the names, but I don't remember, one of them has the word "viking" in it), one of them has already been condemned in Germany for being neo-nαzι. Bishop Fellay did the right thing in requesting that he be dismissed. Bishop Williamson obeyed; this also was the right thing. Deo gratias. "Our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and power, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places" (Eph 6:12). We fight for the Faith, for the Mass, for the supernatural truth and grace, relying on the testimony of God. Historical facts are not at that level, they rely on the testimony of men, we leave that to the historians. May Our Lady of Fatima help us not to be sidetracked from our duty. Father François Laisney
A FEW QUESTIONS
1. Can you please confirm for me that you are the author of this letter?
2. If the answer is in the negative, can you explain why anybody would undertake to write a letter in your name given that hitherto your name had not been mentioned in the matter of what is now known as “Krahgate”?
If you did not write this letter, your reply will be put into “The Complete Krahgate File” which is to be found highlighted in red under the “Pinned Threads” section of the “General Discussion” category of Ignis Ardens at http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/i...php?showforum=1 Should you not be the author of the letter, you may rest assured that members of Ignis Ardens and others will begin an exhaustive search for the perpetrator of this wanton lie.
However, knowing you, I believe that the language and content does appear to coincide with your style, while some of the information given in this letter demonstrates knowledge that was not previously in the public arena and therefore demands explanation. I will as a result present a list of questions to you based exclusively on “your” letter and invite you to reply publicly to them. If I prove to be wrong in this matter of authorship, I will apologise to you on this forum without any kind of mental reservation, and offer a rosary for your intentions by way of reparation.
1. The opening sentence begins: “I am apalled at the art to raise unsubstantiated suspicions and calumnies!” Forgive me, Father, but I have to ask you to highlight the alleged “calumnies.” In “The Complete Krahgate File,” there are no calumnies of any kind. What has been laid out, by myself and others, are facts that are IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN, CAN BE ACCESSED BY ANYONE ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD, ARE SITES ABOVE SUSPICION OF ANY KIND (no blogs, no questionable websites etc) AND HENCE ARE IRREFUTABLE. It is upon these substantiated facts (please note, Father, the word “substantiated”) that a series of important questions have been directed towards the final authority in the SSPX, Bishop Fellay. Furthermore these questions have avoided accusation, smear, charge, personal denigration, slander or defamation. Indeed the original posting by “William of Norwich” on this matter at the end of November 2010 ended with this statement: “There is no malice meant or intended in this communication. There is quite simply a tremendous fear for the future of the SSPX and its direction.” Respectful questioning of authority, based upon public docuмentation of unquestionable authenticity and transparency, does not in Catholic moral teaching amount to “calumny.” So: please substantiate by proofs, by examples, not assertions, that these docuмents posted by faithful members of Catholic Tradition contained calumnies.
2. The second sentence states: “Two of his fellow senior Bishops, Bishop Williamson and Bishop Tissier de Mallerais do not appear to be on any boards representing SSPX assets, which indeed appears odd.” I have used the “Find” function on my computer to seek this sentence within the docuмentation that comprises “The Complete Krahgate File” and I can find it only once: in the letter that you purportedly wrote and which was placed under the heading “Putative Replies.” I can only assume that this phrase appeared in some comment or other of the many hundreds of comments that have been made on Ignis Ardens, or that you have seen this phrase elsewhere in the blogosphere. If it came in such a comment on Ignis Ardens, I have no memory of it. But the issue is that it is only that: a comment and no more. It no more comprises the information brought to light on a number of vital matters concerning the SSPX than your statement that “calumny” appears as information. So: perhaps you can identify the source of this phrase for us?
3. More importantly, however, is a statement that you make: “But in the SSPX, we hold positions in companies by virtue of our office in the SSPX, not in our personal name; so when we change office, our successor takes our place in these companies. NOTHING ODD there at all, on the contrary!” I think, Father, that you have misunderstood the concerns of the faithful in a number of ways. First, nobody has questioned the need for the SSPX to possess legally established structures to protect its assets so as to further the mission of the Society. Second, most of us who have been SSPX supporters for decades are well aware of the fact that such structures have existed for decades as well. Third, nobody has suggested that there was or is anything irregular in SSPX personnel holding office at different times, for differing durations, and in different legal structures. What is being questioned, and which you have studiously avoided in my honest but respectful opinion, are the following points: First, why is someone like Mr Krah, a layman, of only a few years attendance at SSPX masses, who has a known political profile in Germany, and who has questionable contacts for someone who describes himself as “an unimpeachable catholic” in a position of such important authority? Second, and more importantly, the questions posed about business structures were directed almost exclusively to discovering something about two legal structures, Dello Sarto and the Jaidhofer Privatstiftung, in which Mr Krah is involved, whose role in both is vague at best, and both of which structures are of very recent origin. Dello Sarto was established in 2009 and the Jaidhofer Privatstiftung in 2006, the timeframe during which Mr Krah appeared on the SSPX scene. That you chose not to address these questions, THE ESSENTIAL QUESTIONS OF THE WHOLE KRAHGATE AFFAIR, but talked about various small legal associations in different districts, has not calmed the fears among the faithful worldwide at all. On the contrary, the apparent evasion of such questions has heightened the very “suspicions” that you have deplored! It may be, naturally, that you read the essential posts rapidly and fired off your reply to your unknown correspondent too rapidly. If that is so, you have the opportunity now to present a more considered response to these important matters, and I would urge you to do so because silence will only encourage further speculation – something that is not desired nor desirable.
4. You state: “Another example of calumnies: “The fact that the SSPX appears to be involved in international financial markets...” Sorry, this is simply not true.” I take it that you mean that the SSPX is NOT involved in international financial markets, and for that information we are both grateful and relieved. However, there was no calumny involved at all. The poster, “William of Norwich,” just said that it “appears to be.” This is NOT a statement of fact, it is a CONDITIONAL statement based on what was found at Link: Dello Sarto AG
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl...D813%26prmd%3Db
5. However another question logically arises. If Dello Sarto is only concerned with “asset management” in the limited sense that you give it, why was the company so recently set up at all and which employed the services of a Zurich based law firm? Their website, http://www.internationallawoffice.com/dire...47-4d5d5e739909 shows that this company is large, high-powered and clearly expensive. It seems to an outsider something like overkill. Moreover, another question remains: why were none of the other “asset management” companies set up years ago by the SSPX not used? What is it about the purpose of Dello Sarto that none of the other structures could cover? And what in the nature of Dello Sarto necessitated the employment of Mr Krah as its manager? Could not a suitably qualified cleric have done this job? After all your description of the work involved - “we strive to avoid the financial world; thus if a chapel has some savings, we organise that it be lent to another chapel that had a debt, either at no interest at all, or at low interest to offset devaluation. Thus even that low interest that one chapel pays still goes to help another chapel's future projects” - does not strike me as particularly onerous nor requiring the services of an internationally connected law firm. Perhaps you would like to clarify these matters in order that we, the faithful, the people who actually supply the money to the SSPX to allow “asset management” to become necessary, have our minds put to rest?
6. You make this statement: “Again, as previous bursar general, I can testify that the SSPX is NOT involved in financial markets speculation or usury of any kind!” With all due respect, I am sorry to tell you Father that that is not something that you can substantiate. You can certainly say that there was no speculation or usury DURING YOUR TIME as bursar, but you CANNOT testify to something after your bursarship finished. How long has it been since you ceased to be bursar? Five years? Eight years? Ten years? This is not an attack on you, it is only to say that NO PERSON once he has left any post can testify to what happened AFTER his departure. Your good faith is NOT being called into question here. What is being called into question is your competence to make such a wide-ranging assertion.
7. In reference to Mr Krah you say: “He gives us competent "legal counsels" especially in matters of legacies in the German speaking world.” Upon what do you base this statement regarding his alleged competence? Is it upon what you have personally witnessed through interaction with him, or is it based only upon what you have been told?
8. You write:“Mr Krah is not a Jew, though he may have some Jєωιѕн friends, which is not uncommon in the legal world.” What is the basis of your statement that Mr Krah is not a Jew? Mr Krah in a statement posted on December 28 2010, at 02:12 PM on Ignis Ardens made a number of statements, but at no point did he deny that he was a Jew? He only asserted that he was a Catholic. Well, Cardinal Lustiger called himself a Catholic, did he not, but he equally asserted that he was a Jew? Given that this was one of the more astonishing statements made by “William of Norwich” does it not strike you as significant that Mr Krah did not make plain his – according to you – non-Jєωιѕн status? It could hardly be construed as the oversight of a very minor detail can it? Moreover, while you assert that Mr Krah is not a Jew, you give no evidence, circuмstantial or otherwise, to support this assertion. You cannot say that he denied it, because in his one and only public statement he has not done so. Nor can you retort that “William of Norwich” is in the same boat as you: making an assertion without any kind of evidence. “William of Norwich” gave the following link by way of support: Link: American Friends of Tel Aviv University
http://www.aftau.org/site/PageServer?pagen...0_AlumniAuction If you would care to look carefully at all of the photographs available at this link, you will see that every person has been named. I do not believe that one has to be an expert in family names to recognise that they are all Jєωιѕн, at a Jєωιѕн event, in the city with the highest Jєωιѕн population in the world (Israel notwithstanding), and supporting the work of an Israeli university that is dominated by the Israeli security forces which have a long history of anti-Catholic and anti-Christian activity of the most murderous kind. Is it really credible, in the absence of a forthright denial by Mr Krah of being Jєωιѕн, to believe, as you clearly believe, that he was the only NON-JEW present?
9. A small but related question: You said that “ he MAY have some Jєωιѕн friends.” “William of Norwich” showed beyond any doubt that he DOES through the link just cited. One question, since I assume that you must know Mr Krah to make these statements, is this: would he happen to be a friend of Mischa Morgenbesser, a lawyer with BADERTSCHER Rechtsanwälte AG (Zurich), who is the sole Hebrew speaker with the firm, the firm that advises the SSPX in relation to Dello Sarto? Do you know if this firm was suggested by Mr Krah to the leadership of the SSPX?
10. In your letter you comment: “Note that Mr. Krah's involvement with the CDU consisted in a donation to a convent (Kloster St Marienthal): if that is the only thing you found against him, that is not much to worry.” My dear Father Laisney, this one sentence alone leads to several questions and which, at the same time, raises questions about your actual knowledge and intimacy with the whole affair. Let me explain. Mr Krah’s involvement with the CDU was NOT limited to seeking a donation for the convent of St. Marienthal. If you went to the link given by “William of Norwich” concerning Mr Krah and his actual relations with the CDU, you would see that according to the “Journal of the Dresdener Union” (the July/August 2005 number) Mr Krah was elected the Pressesprecher, Press Officer, for Dresden’s CDU governing committee in June 2005 with 81.66% of the branch’s membership. Moreover, the May 2006 number of the same “Journal” reveals that he had by then become a member of the editorial board of the “Journal.” Mr Krah’s involvement with politics does not concern me greatly beyond the fact that the CDU is neither Christian in any sense worthy of the name, nor is it democratic in any profound sense. But it is clearly anti-Catholic when it wishes to be, as the occasion when Angela Merkel publicly rebuked the Pope about the so-called “rehabilitation” of Mgr Williamson demonstrates – a public scandal about which the SSPX has said little or nothing, made all the more worrying given the cant of the CDU about the “benefits” of the separation of Church and State. I would invite you to check these details for yourself, but since “William of Norwich” posted the CDU/Krah link it has mysteriously disappeared from the internet. However, one brave Catholic soul had the foresight to save the two files about the CDU cited, and they will be posted to”The Complete Krahgate File” in the near future so that you and others may see the facts for yourself.
11. There is, however, one surprising thing in your sentence. You make reference to the Kloster St. Marienthal and say that Krah’s only involvement in the CDU was to seek donations for it. Let us leave aside the fact that the St. Marienthal Convent, the oldest women’s Cistercian monastery in Germany, is a conciliar structure and seems to be more a place for hosting conferences on “Justice, Peace, Ecology” and the rest of the conciliar agenda, than a place full of nuns working out their salvation in prayer and sacrifice; let us leave aside also the fact that one wonders why a person who claims to be a traditional Catholic would seek to raise money for a conciliar structure when undoubtedly there are better claims to be made for SSPX structures in Germany; let us leave aside as well that the Convent in question is less than a hour’s drive from Krah’s home, is incredibly beautiful, a glory to the faith, clearly worth a financial fortune if put on the market, and is run by a “Board of Trustees,” the composition of which I have not been able to identify as yet, and come to one crucial question. At NO POINT in “The Complete Krahgate File” or anywhere else on Ignis Ardens was ANY REFERENCE MADE TO THIS CONVENT AND KRAH MAKING AN APPEAL FOR FUNDS FOR IT! The convent is not mentioned in either of the two CDU files that were available online until they disappeared. So your statement is a piece of information that none of us were aware of, and we would invite you to let us know how you came across this information? It may be of little importance, but given that Mr Krah appears to have many fingers in many pies, one can never be sure that that is so.
12. Although I could ask you another half dozen questions on the basis of your short letter, I will confine myself to just one more. You say in relation to Mr Krah, and by implication to others, that when the SSPX requires legal advice and assistance that “Honesty and competence is the criteria, not political views.” To that I am sure that I speak for all supporters of the SSPX when I say “Amen.” Thus, Mr Krah, if he were both honest and competent and available to the SSPX, would be a good choice irrespective of his political affiliation – and no traditionalist could or would argue with that decision. The problem, however, is twofold. First, Mr Krah’s choice of Matthias Lossmann as counsel for Mgr. Williamson in the trial of April 2010 did not show competence at all. What it demonstrated was a woeful inability or will to find someone who would address the issues pertaining to Williamson’s case: namely the manifest deficiency of German law as it pertained to this particular case. It had nothing effectively to do with so-called “h0Ɩ0cαųst denial” but everything to do with whether or not Mgr. Williamson fell within the bounds of the law being evoked by the Regensburg court. That woeful decision cost Mgr. Williamson a great deal, and we can only speculate as to whether Mr Krah’s clear incompetence was honest or dishonest. On that God alone knows. The second problem with your position of “Honesty and competence is the criteria, not political views” is contradicted by actual facts. Put simply if Mr Krah, appointed by Mgr. Fellay, was good enough for the job, in theory, to deal with Mgr. Williamson’s case in the first instance, despite his open affiliation with the CDU, why was Mr Nahrath, chosen by Williamson in the second instance, unacceptable to Mgr. Fellay. It cannot be seriously argued that Mr Nahrath was not competent in such delicate [in Germany] matters, for his success in Germany, even in 2010, in such questions is a matter of public record. Neither can his honesty be seriously impugned since it is evident that, unlike Messrs. Krah and Lossmann, he risks in a very real way his liberty every time he takes on a “controversial case.” You say that Mr Nahrath was not unacceptable, not because of his affiliation with the NPD, a legal political party in Germany, but with something called “Viking” though you could not remember the name that Mgr. Fellay mentioned to you. The name is, of course, “Viking Youth” which any Google search would have given you. What is remarkable is that Mgr. Fellay should make Nahrath’s political leadership of the Viking Youth the pretext for denying Mgr. Williamson good, honest and legal counsel. The Viking Youth was banned in 1994, sixteen years ago! Would anyone suggest that Fr. Schmidberger was unfit to hold high office in the SSPX because of his activity in a sedevacantist youth group many years ago? Would anyone suggest that Mgr. Lefebvre was unfit to be the founder of the SSPX because he praised Marshal Petain and a number of other political figures, now regarded as “politically incorrect”? I do not think so. Does it not strike you, my dear father, that what Mgr. Williamson required was a decent lawyer; and does it not strike you as unacceptable, as shown in “The Complete Krahgate File”, that Mr Krah – the self-confessed “unimpeachable catholic” - should have made Nahrath’s appointment known to Der Spiegel within the hour of his appointment?
My dear Father Laisney, I suspect that while you may believe what you have written in this letter, you are acting upon the basis of third hand information. If it was designed to bring serenity to Catholic souls it failed completely. The information and related questions outlined in this email prove, I believe, that there is much still to be unmasked in the Krahgate Affair in the quest for the truth, a truth that the praying, obeying and paying faithful have an absolute right to receive.
I reiterate what I said at the outset. There is no intention to accuse you of anything improper or immoral. Indeed your entry into the picture with your letter was a surprise to everybody since you had never been mentioned in connection with Krahgate. What I would exhort you to do is to furnish the faithful with answers to the above queries, and to the best of your knowledge and ability. Failing that, perhaps you could ask the SSPX leadership to answer these and other questions in order to bring a peaceful end to what is, quite frankly, one of the most disturbing episodes in the life of Society in decades.
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It's worth mentioning Fr Laisney and 'Krahgate'. It is generally believed Bishop Fellay asked him to do something.In doing so, it raised many questions.
Veritas1961 put some questions to Fr Laisney.
http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=14469
Laisney hides behind the word "calumny". And he is one of their star theologians. A priest who attended a retreat conducted by him says that he is holy, brilliant,humble, intellectual and holy. (Did I say holy twice?). But I've heard from three Mass centres here in India that many don't understand what he's saying. Perhaps I shouldn't say that. Calumny?
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Hey Trento! I live in the Philippines and we own property there. I relocated 3 years ago so I see the difference between the apostolate in the west & the apostolate in Asia. I've also traveled around Asia. Right now I am vacationing in the US where my children study. Yes Trento, I am actually a real person & a RC mother of 7. I also know the priests pretty well. We have good Catholic priests but a poorly managed shabby district & to think how big Asia is & yet how very little progress has been made in 20 years. I am only stating the obvious. If you ever have a chance to visit Asia, you will see what I'm talking about.
Oh & about those medical missions, we don't have converts (notice plural) from those medical projects. These humanitarian events are only held once a year! Poor Filipinos will go because they're free not because they are sponsored by a Catholic organization. There are many medical missions sponsored by multiple organizations throughout Asia.
The medical mission is a big fund raiser and yet our missions suffer terribly. Maybe if the district superior will start actually visiting the missions, he can see with his own eyes how neglected they are. And maybe if he will start asking Menzingen to send us more experienced priests like Fr. Paul Morgan & we are allowed to keep them long enough to establish strong & stable schools & chapels then maybe we will actually get some where!
Asia doesn't need sympathy. We need workers!
I thought you would have known more about Asia District. Fr. Morgan was the superior in Philippines before Fr. Couture arrived to take over an expanded District. If you want to make a comparison betwen them, you might as well compare on the growth between Asia and Great Britain. But we both know these two Districts are not only culturally different but, financially vastly different too.
As for the medical missions, as you have rightly noted, it attracts mostly the poorest of the poor Filipinos. What do you expect poor Filipinos to do when they are even struggling to survive day by day? I believe the SSPX priests and the volunteers will start the spark. Even Mormons and Protestant groups use the same means and much more to pull away Catholics in Latin America. One priest told us the Filipinos are mostly cultural Catholics, and they have no idea at all about dogmas of the faith such as no salvation outside the Church, and the necessity of getting their babies baptized as soon as possible. Then, we can also see the common scenes of girls getting pregnant outside wedlock, with the girls' parents hardly batting an eyelid if their daughters get pregnant before marriage! Not many are as fortunate as you to relocate to the US or have vacation homes in other countries.
So what do you suggest? Close down the SSPX chapels and priories in the US and UK and move the priests to Asia? I'd love that too, but we know it is not practical. I can certainly agree with your last line, we don't need sympathy, we need workers, and we can also do better with less armchair critics.
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Hey Trento! I live in the Philippines and we own property there. I relocated 3 years ago so I see the difference between the apostolate in the west & the apostolate in Asia. I've also traveled around Asia. Right now I am vacationing in the US where my children study. Yes Trento, I am actually a real person & a RC mother of 7. I also know the priests pretty well. We have good Catholic priests but a poorly managed shabby district & to think how big Asia is & yet how very little progress has been made in 20 years. I am only stating the obvious. If you ever have a chance to visit Asia, you will see what I'm talking about.
Oh & about those medical missions, we don't have converts (notice plural) from those medical projects. These humanitarian events are only held once a year! Poor Filipinos will go because they're free not because they are sponsored by a Catholic organization. There are many medical missions sponsored by multiple organizations throughout Asia.
The medical mission is a big fund raiser and yet our missions suffer terribly. Maybe if the district superior will start actually visiting the missions, he can see with his own eyes how neglected they are. And maybe if he will start asking Menzingen to send us more experienced priests like Fr. Paul Morgan & we are allowed to keep them long enough to establish strong & stable schools & chapels then maybe we will actually get some where!
Asia doesn't need sympathy. We need workers!
I thought you would have known more about Asia District. Fr. Morgan was the superior in Philippines before Fr. Couture arrived to take over an expanded District. If you want to make a comparison betwen them, you might as well compare on the growth between Asia and Great Britain. But we both know these two Districts are not only culturally different but, financially vastly different too.
As for the medical missions, as you have rightly noted, it attracts mostly the poorest of the poor Filipinos. What do you expect poor Filipinos to do when they are even struggling to survive day by day? I believe the SSPX priests and the volunteers will start the spark. Even Mormons and Protestant groups use the same means and much more to pull away Catholics in Latin America. One priest told us the Filipinos are mostly cultural Catholics, and they have no idea at all about dogmas of the faith such as no salvation outside the Church, and the necessity of getting their babies baptized as soon as possible. Then, we can also see the common scenes of girls getting pregnant outside wedlock, with the girls' parents hardly batting an eyelid if their daughters get pregnant before marriage! Not many are as fortunate as you to relocate to the US or have vacation homes in other countries.
So what do you suggest? Close down the SSPX chapels and priories in the US and UK and move the priests to Asia? I'd love that too, but we know it is not practical. I can certainly agree with your last line, we don't need sympathy, we need workers, and we can also do better with less armchair critics.
Trenton,
It is not about the money. I am from SSPX Malaysia. We wanted to expand and even offered to pay for the installments of the new property. In the end the offer was turn down with the excuse that SSPX must own the property and a list of sorry excuses. We even had a vote in the chapel chaired by Fr. Couture to decide if we should move to a bigger and better place or not. Although he public announce with a head count that we have a majority, a month later he wrote us all a memo saying he made recount after the voting and found that we didn't have majority. He didn't want it to happen because the coordinator owns the existing property that we were using for free. He told us that he can't do anything for Malaysia because the coordinator owns the chapel. The irony is after turning us down he calls my husband up to request for sg$300k for his Singapore baroque church project.
Don't side wall us with these stupid remarks about closing SSPX U.S and U.K. We don't need to do that to expand Asia. Money we have. Culture we also have. We don't have good priests or superiors.
I have a big family. 10 kids. I have to spend around USD50k annually to send my kids overseas for a traditional catholic education. And the cost will rise as more of my children come to age. I am already homeschooling 3 at home. We spend more money here for the kids education than for those in US or UK. The efforts is 3 fold due to currency exchange.
Give Zorayda a break, she actually moved back to the phillipines to send her kids to a school that was supposed to be setup by SSPX. But it is a failure. So now she is neither here nor there.
When we say the priests don't do their jobs, it isn't hearsay. We are the actual victims that deal with these priests face to face.
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Good grief Trento! Is that all you can come up with: close down the chapels & teenage pregnancies! It's ok to admit on a trad forum that you are a blindly loyal faithful devotee of Fr. Couture, ok??? Groupies are a dime a dozen. I just don't have time for that. :sleep:
FYI,
1. Of course I knew Fr Paul Morgan was the first district superior of Asia (thanks be to God) when it was located in Quezon City. I have photos of him in La Union saying Mass at the private chapel of my Uncle and he also baptized my cousin. DUH!!! I'll post the photos one day once I get back to Manila.
2. You want to talk about work like blood, sweat, & tears kind??? Ask Fr. Onoda who cleaned the priory kitchen with her bare hands after 15 years of not being cleaned? Just mention my name. Just do that will you?
3. I'm not going to parade all my husband & Ihave done for OLOVC and other missions just to prove you wrong. Show up at Manila & volunteer if your so sure of yourself & I'll meet you there. We can scrub toilets together while we debate this whole thing. I'm sure an arm chair critic like yourself has time to clean toilets for the church right?
4. Don't you dare talk about my country which you know nothing about!!! My country the Philippines has been systematically demoralized & corrupted by America & Europe. We never had STD's & promiscuity until America came along and snatched our country from Spain. I can't believe I have to listen to a teenage girl on a small island ask for info about Blake Lively thanks to good ol' America & Gossip girl! How wonderful it it is for the "pope" to bless the UN flag! The UN & medical missions - those all too important humanitarian acts of mercy - so responsible for sterilizing thousands of Filipina women via "vaccines".
5. Face it Trento: the hard truth is Fr. Couture & cronies use Asia as a marketing & fund raising ploy via medical missions, via rebuilding tsunami hit villages, via whatever makes caring Catholics cry & open their wallets!
Fr. Couture & Bishop Fellay: STOP making the Philippines a profitable charity case for Tradition!!! Stop your disgusting & insulting operations!
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Trento:
Why don't you personally ask Fr. Couture why SSPX Malaysia, which is a very big & tolerant country, does not have a school & church building after 20 years???
How is it that Malaysian families are crammed like sardines into a commercial property owned by the coordinators for more than a decade??? As Angelia pointed out, Fr. Couture does NOT want to move the mission outside of his rent-free building even though Angelia's husband was willing to pay for a new and larger chapel in a new area more accessible to Malaysian Catholics.
So what happens to all the donations when rent is free???
How is it that after all these years of the district being in Singapore, and Malaysia borders Singapore, that no chapels & schools have been built or established outside SG???
And yet he rebuilds tsunami-hit villages in Asia. :confused1:
How is it that they fly to Kota Kinabalu for only 10 people??? By now they should at least number 100. Why are there only 2 missions in Malaysia when the district/priory is only a 3-hour bus ride away???
Why don't you also ask him where in the world does he fly to and why??? With all that flying, one would think that by now, we would already have well-established schools, chapels, convents, & seminaries.
Can you also ask our hard working district superior why he ships out the good & industrious priests before their term is up? False allegations from nagging women should not force the district superior from getting rid of good priests.
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Trento:
Why don't you personally ask Fr. Couture why SSPX Malaysia, which is a very big & tolerant country, does not have a school & church building after 20 years???
How is it that Malaysian families are crammed like sardines into a commercial property owned by the coordinators for more than a decade??? As Angelia pointed out, Fr. Couture does NOT want to move the mission outside of his rent-free building even though Angelia's husband was willing to pay for a new and larger chapel in a new area more accessible to Malaysian Catholics.
So what happens to all the donations when rent is free???
How is it that after all these years of the district being in Singapore, and Malaysia borders Singapore, that no chapels & schools have been built or established outside SG???
And yet he rebuilds tsunami-hit villages in Asia. :confused1:
How is it that they fly to Kota Kinabalu for only 10 people??? By now they should at least number 100. Why are there only 2 missions in Malaysia when the district/priory is only a 3-hour bus ride away???
Why don't you also ask him where in the world does he fly to and why??? With all that flying, one would think that by now, we would already have well-established schools, chapels, convents, & seminaries.
Can you also ask our hard working district superior why he ships out the good & industrious priests before their term is up? False allegations from nagging women should not force the district superior from getting rid of good priests.
Some people are taken in the way pilgrimages are conducted, the way a priest preaches, the way one is part of an "elitist" social unit that has dinner dates with a white chaplain. True?
You spoke about Mormons etc and their evangelization. Great pilgrimages to the Holy Land are conducted by that Zionist Christian God TV. And Catholics from India are going on these. One of our altar servers has become an evangelical preacher, and he turns Catholics on, and away from Catholicism. The Hindus conduct any amount of retreats, missions and seminars eg. on the avoidance of evil; preparation for death etc.
We should really be able to insist that priests practice what they preach.
My wife and I have been looking after our chapel for the past 18 years and ongoing.
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Trenton,
It is not about the money. I am from SSPX Malaysia. We wanted to expand and even offered to pay for the installments of the new property. In the end the offer was turn down with the excuse that SSPX must own the property and a list of sorry excuses. We even had a vote in the chapel chaired by Fr. Couture to decide if we should move to a bigger and better place or not. Although he public announce with a head count that we have a majority, a month later he wrote us all a memo saying he made recount after the voting and found that we didn't have majority. He didn't want it to happen because the coordinator owns the existing property that we were using for free. He told us that he can't do anything for Malaysia because the coordinator owns the chapel. The irony is after turning us down he calls my husband up to request for sg$300k for his Singapore baroque church project.
Don't side wall us with these stupid remarks about closing SSPX U.S and U.K. We don't need to do that to expand Asia. Money we have. Culture we also have. We don't have good priests or superiors.
I have a big family. 10 kids. I have to spend around USD50k annually to send my kids overseas for a traditional catholic education. And the cost will rise as more of my children come to age. I am already homeschooling 3 at home. We spend more money here for the kids education than for those in US or UK. The efforts is 3 fold due to currency exchange.
Give Zorayda a break, she actually moved back to the phillipines to send her kids to a school that was supposed to be setup by SSPX. But it is a failure. So now she is neither here nor there.
When we say the priests don't do their jobs, it isn't hearsay. We are the actual victims that deal with these priests face to face.
So it seems you offered to pay for the instalment. How about the downpayment? Ever wondered how much money left in the fund for that? Are the Sunday collections enough to cover the transportation costs of the priests from Singapore priory, and other bills for the chapel? Please find out more details and let us know. Please, more facts, not hearsay or assumptions.
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Trento:
Why don't you personally ask Fr. Couture why SSPX Malaysia, which is a very big & tolerant country, does not have a school & church building after 20 years???
How is it that Malaysian families are crammed like sardines into a commercial property owned by the coordinators for more than a decade??? As Angelia pointed out, Fr. Couture does NOT want to move the mission outside of his rent-free building even though Angelia's husband was willing to pay for a new and larger chapel in a new area more accessible to Malaysian Catholics.
So what happens to all the donations when rent is free???
How is it that after all these years of the district being in Singapore, and Malaysia borders Singapore, that no chapels & schools have been built or established outside SG???
And yet he rebuilds tsunami-hit villages in Asia. :confused1:
How is it that they fly to Kota Kinabalu for only 10 people??? By now they should at least number 100. Why are there only 2 missions in Malaysia when the district/priory is only a 3-hour bus ride away???
Why don't you also ask him where in the world does he fly to and why??? With all that flying, one would think that by now, we would already have well-established schools, chapels, convents, & seminaries.
Can you also ask our hard working district superior why he ships out the good & industrious priests before their term is up? False allegations from nagging women should not force the district superior from getting rid of good priests.
Wow, Malaysia a big and TOLERANT country? I guess you have to ask more about Malaysia from fellow forumer Angelia here. If she says the same thing, then I'm just speechless. :facepalm:
As for what I think about the donations, please refer to my earlier post.
I recall that the tsunami donations also comes from special donation requests after the disaster, so please think rationally before shooting your gun.
10 people only in Kota Kinabalu? Where did you get your numbers? The mission there is still considered a start-up, and Mass as I know it is only once a month at a private residence, as the Sunday collections could not cover the costs for maintaining the previous chapel. Someone here said it is not about the money, but indeed it is. You can't expect SSPX to maintain a mission if it cannot be self-sustaining. On that matter, I just looked over at http://www.savesspx.com/ (http://www.savesspx.com/) and wow, we have lots of zealous comments over there about saving SSPX and what not, but when it comes to the financial support, just look at it and you will get what I mean. It's all talk and not backed up with the means to do it. The best input was the $0.02 from Pennsylvania on May 22. LOL. Perhaps some of you will be stirred to put in $1k a month after reading this comment. :)
Did not the priests tell you about the visa issues that Fr. Couture is now forced to move his priests around in such a big district as Asia? What's so difficult to understand about that? Yes, we need more priests, and the right thing to do is to petition Menzingen to send more priests to Asia.
And what is this about shipping out of good and industrious priests? I chuckled at the line "False allegations from nagging women should not force the district superior from getting rid of good priests" because it seems the same thing is happening on this forum.
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Trenton,
50 people in the chapel witness the voting for the moving of the chapel and heard Fr. Couture pronounce in front of the Bless Sacrament that we have majority. Weeks later a memo was issued with rules for the chapel and that there are a lot of reasons why we shouldnt move as to why we should. And the most Pathetic excuse is that we should be afraid of offending the powerful Novus Ordo churches if we move closer to them. WHEN WAS SSPX AFRAID TO BE ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE NOVUS ORDO CHURCH. The Singaporean SSPX chapel is only 2 blocks from the novus ordo church. Under Fr. Couture, the Singapore Traditional Catholics are. not afraid why should it be different for the Malaysia Catholics!! Even the other Christian act and pagan temples don't say that. If you challenge me on this fact, I will show you that pathetic memo sign by Fr. Couture.
(NONE was about no money)and a recount was done after we had left and we have no majority afterall because 1 family is one vote even when they consist of young adults over the age of 21. Even voting for your ruling party is fairer!!! At least they consider an adult as 1 vote.
Fr. Couture lied to us after declaring the truth in front of the Bless Sacrament. If he is telling you that we didn't move because of money then he lied again.
We dont even collect funds for a new chapel. Do you know how much is the Sunday collection ? It is never published on our bulletin. We don't have enough is because no one ever publish the expenses of the chapel. Even now they don't tell us how much they collect each Sunday.
I have my facts. It is you who want to distort the truth for readers not from this region. You can defend Fr. Couture all you want but unfortunately he and you will have to lie to cover his mess.
How do you know we will not have the downpayment? This was never an issue, as it was turn down from the beginning. They wouldn't even allow us to collect for it. They have no problem collecting to pay for airconditioning.
MONEY WAS NOT AN ISSUE THEN NOR IS IT AN ISSUE NOW.
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Trenton,
50 people in the chapel witness the voting for the moving of the chapel and heard Fr. Couture pronounce in front of the Bless Sacrament that we have majority. Weeks later a memo was issued with rules for the chapel and that there are a lot of reasons why we shouldnt move as to why we should. And the most Pathetic excuse is that we should be afraid of offending the powerful Novus Ordo churches if we move closer to them. WHEN WAS SSPX AFRAID TO BE ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE NOVUS ORDO CHURCH. The Singaporean SSPX chapel is only 2 blocks from the novus ordo church. Under Fr. Couture, the Singapore Traditional Catholics are. not afraid why should it be different for the Malaysia Catholics!! Even the other Christian act and pagan temples don't say that. If you challenge me on this fact, I will show you that pathetic memo sign by Fr. Couture.
(NONE was about no money)and a recount was done after we had left and we have no majority afterall because 1 family is one vote even when they consist of young adults over the age of 21. Even voting for your ruling party is fairer!!! At least they consider an adult as 1 vote.
Fr. Couture lied to us after declaring the truth in front of the Bless Sacrament. If he is telling you that we didn't move because of money then he lied again.
We dont even collect funds for a new chapel. Do you know how much is the Sunday collection ? It is never published on our bulletin. We don't have enough is because no one ever publish the expenses of the chapel. Even now they don't tell us how much they collect each Sunday.
I have my facts. It is you who want to distort the truth for readers not from this region. You can defend Fr. Couture all you want but unfortunately he and you will have to lie to cover his mess.
How do you know we will not have the downpayment? This was never an issue, as it was turn down from the beginning. They wouldn't even allow us to collect for it. They have no problem collecting to pay for airconditioning.
MONEY WAS NOT AN ISSUE THEN NOR IS IT AN ISSUE NOW.
Did Fr. Couture really told you "we should be afraid of offending the powerful Novus Ordo churches if we move closer to them"? I'd really love to see that if you can prove it, and I will not hesitate to reproach him for that. As for the voting, I learnt from my sources that at that time there is no legal entity yet, thus it would be more prudent to defer moving until the SSPX is legal over in Malaysia, AND the financial situation permits it. From what I gather in these comments, Fr Couture is still right to have the final say regardless of any voting. The Church is not a democracy!
By the way, I also learnt from my source that you aren't even a member of the association formed in Malaysia. No wonder you don't even know the amount in the funds, and the expenses incurred as it is revealed during the yearly general meeting! You say I distort the truth? So, is my source telling the truth? For goodness' sake, find out the facts first before spouting tonnes of anger and diatribe against priests and bishops. I rest my case.
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When we say the priests don't do their jobs, it isn't hearsay. We are the actual victims that deal with these priests face to face.
Spot on!
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[/quote]
Did Fr. Couture really told you "we should be afraid of offending the powerful Novus Ordo churches if we move closer to them"? I'd really love to see that if you can prove it, and I will not hesitate to reproach him for that. As for the voting, I learnt from my sources that at that time there is no legal entity yet, thus it would be more prudent to defer moving until the SSPX is legal over in Malaysia, AND the financial situation permits it. From what I gather in these comments, Fr Couture is still right to have the final say regardless of any voting. The Church is not a democracy!
By the way, I also learnt from my source that you aren't even a member of the association formed in Malaysia. No wonder you don't even know the amount in the funds, and the expenses incurred as it is revealed during the yearly general meeting! You say I distort the truth? So, is my source telling the truth? For goodness' sake, find out the facts first before spouting tonnes of anger and diatribe against priests and bishops. I rest my case.[/quote]
Do you know what we have been talking about? We are talking about Fr. Couture suppressing the growth of SSPX Asia and how will the situation be in relation to Bp. Fellay going back to ROME....
THANK YOU FOR CONFIRMING THAT FR. COUTURE SUPPRESSED GROWTH IN THIS REGION. :applause:
Fr. Couture doesn't wish Catholic Tradition to grow in Malaysia. It was his prerrogative to stop a chapel from growing. HE HAS the FINAL SAY.
HAVING THE FINAL SAY is not what make him a GREAT DISTRICT SUPERIOR.
[/quote]
Fr Couture is still right to have the final say regardless of any voting[/quote]
He called for the voting
He counted the vote
He declare we have majority
He doesn't like the outcome (Or someone else didn't like it)
He stated that after everyone has GONE HOME, he counted again
He made a mistake- We didn't have majority.
He change the rule of voting where 1 family =1 vote not one adult = 1 vote.
with that He MADE THE CALL TO STAY because we didn't want to move.
AND HE IS STILL RIGHT. :shocked:
You are doing a lousy job defending his actions.
Besides him being still right. I couldn't say it better myself...HE HAD THE FINAL SAY NO MATTER WHAT.
He can manipulate, lie and cheat and in the end it is okay, because it is his prerogative as District Superior.
[/quote]As for the voting, I learnt from my sources that at that time there is no legal entity yet, thus it would be more prudent to defer moving until the SSPX is legal over in Malaysia[/quote]
This is nonsense. This legal status was only setup 5-6 years ago..SSPX has been here for 20years. We have moved from previous location to the present location without considering the legal status. Why moving to the next location be any different? Besides we still kept the chapel open in the present place even when we didn't have a legal status. So the concern on legality is unfounded.
Lets say for sake of arguement we do have a legality issue..why on earth he calls for a vote. Just tell us point blank, we are not moving because we can't. He takes us for a ride and call it a day. We are not little children.
The Church is not a democracy.
I FULLY AGREE WITH YOU. WE ASK HIM TO MAKE THE CALL BUT HE SAID HE COULDN'T BECAUSE THE CHAPEL ISN"T HIS SO HE DECIDES TO CALL A VOTE SO THAT THE DECISION FALLS ON ALL OF US
(which by the way was done on the previous decision to move from a resident to a commercial lot- WE HAD A VOTE)
But he still bow to whatever the coordinator wants and stoop low enough to change the rules of voting to accomodate them.
[/quote]I'd really love to see that if you can prove it, and I will not hesitate to reproach him for that[/quote]
Please ask your source to provide the copy of the memo. It is listed there. You can't say I forged the docuмent. They should have a record of it. I gave my copy to Fr. Nely when he visited us.
By the way, I also learnt from my source that you aren't even a member of the association formed in Malaysia. No wonder you don't even know the amount in the funds, and the expenses incurred as it is revealed during the yearly general meeting!
YES!! your source is correct, we are not members of this association. We refuse to belong to this association because we do not agree with the way the association was setup. Like all association, the committee should be duly elected by the members of the association. But here we have an association where the committee members are appointment without due process. They were hand picked by the priest just to setup a legal status for SSPX. They purposely place people in key position that doesn't question anything and just do what you are told. Everyone was not suppose to speak. You just sign.
This is not a true association. My husband and I will not put our signature down for something that we didn't even have the right to vote on We are not puppets. If the Government knows, this is illegal because it was not established according to the rules of the association. YOU ARE LYING TO THE GOVERNMENT.
After what Fr. Couture did with the VOTING to MOVE...why on earth would we want to belong to this association?
No wonder you don't even know the amount in the funds, and the expenses incurred as it is revealed during the yearly general meeting!
The association was setup so that SSPX can say Mass here without any issue on its legitimacy in the eyes of the Government. The sunday collection or whatever collection is for the CHURCH and it doesn't only come from the members of the association. You are collecting from everyone and anyone that comes in the door. THE MONEY DOESN'T BELONG TO THE ASSOCIATION. It belongs to the Church. You collect from the public therefore the public should know. We don't need to reference any Dogmas of Faith on this...IT IS JUST COMMON CURTESY and PLAIN COMMON SENSE. You don't need to be part of the association to know how much goes into the Sunday Collection or what expenses the chapel incurs.
If the rule is only members of the association should know then WHY DO THE ASSOCIATION tell us that they dont' have enough FUNDS for the transportation of priest for MASS.. THIS SHOULD ALSO BE NONE OF OUR BUSINESS TOO!!
WHAT YOU COLLECT IS YOUR BUSINESS SO WHAT YOU DON'T HAVE IS ALSO YOUR BUSINESS.
But now the priest announce that the association has decided to collect from everyone but it still doesn't announce how much they collect. LIKE I SAID THIS IS a CHURCH not an association. That is just for legalization purpose.
You don't need an association to show accountability. Before the association was setup..we also never disclose how much we collected after we moved to this present chapel. All accountability for the funds ended when we moved to this current chapel. So it has nothing to do with having an association or not.
I have been to many different Traditional Parishes outside of ASIA and all disclose their expenses and collection in the Sunday Bulletin.
The bottomline is you twist the rules to suit your demands but when it doesn't go in your favor...you say at the end of the DAY...we HAVE THE FINAL SAY....
You and whoever that thinks like you are a new breed of "Traditional Catholics"
You can accept a priest that lie and cheat because his position gives him the right?!
NO ONE HAS THE GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO SIN!!! I DON'T CARE IF YOU ARE THE PRIEST, BISHOP, OR THE POPE.
If you can accept Fr. Couture's lies, you definitely have no problem accepting Bp. Fellay contradictions, a person who manipulate the Truth to suit his needs to bring you back to rome.
And you definitely will have no problem accepting this NEW DOGMA discovered by VATICAN II, where the JEWS need not acknowledge CHRIST AS REDEEMER TO BE SAVED because your puny BRAIN can't FATHOM this NEW DIVINE MYSTERY OF THE NEW CATHOLIC CHURCH which only lately reveal to P. JOHN PAUL II and fully defined by Benedict XVI :heretic:
....so accept it because Bp. Fellay and Fr. Couture knows what they are doing. And don't pay attention to the FACT that you now have to believe in the h0Ɩ0cαųst too if you don't want to be EXCOMMUNICATED...
Don't ask why because Fr. Couture, Bp. Fellay, the pope knows something we don't know. LETS JUST CALL IT THE NEW DIVINE MYSTERIES. :jester:
God gave us an intellect and free will. We can't just blame Fr. Couture for everything. It takes 2 to tango. Fr. Couture didn't want it and the people didn't want it bad enough. So when God call you to answer what have you done with the gold coin I gave you...you can't say I gave it to Fr. Couture.... :fryingpan:
This goes the same for GOING BACK TO ROME...we don't need someone to tell you it is okay...you don't know your FAITH ..
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So Trento (is Lim your last name???), you are probably one of those special members hand picked by Fr. Couture to control your lovely country club chapel in KL, Malaysia. I've been there and I'm actually visiting again with my 7 children. Please tell the Lims, your country club coordinators, that I will not avail of that prison-like crying room designed to suffocate small children & to turn away growing families. :baby:
Instead, my growing family will happily seat ourselves right in the front row. Oh and you can also tell Mr. Lim that it was really rude of him to cut right in front of my son in the confessional line. You would think that as coordinators, the Lims would welcome newcomers like us to their exclusive chapel...on Easter Sunday.
Trento: how are you benefiting from defending Fr. Couture. He obviously lied from the pulpit and obviously the faithful are still stuck in your chapel like packed sardines. No growth & nothing to show for after 20 years in Asia & years of airline miles. Why should any member or visitor give one penny towards what (outside real costs of travel & electricity)??? If Fr. Couture has no intentions to grow the district then why should I donate??? So that he can he fly business class?
The more you keep defending him, the more the truth comes out. I see now that Asia district is one big SCAM & the ones in control are scam artists. The plot thickens and I am going to have this whole thing investigated.
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Angelia & Zorayda,
I don't know what personal grudge that you have with Fr. Couture or with the Lims, and I'm not even interested to know, but from your emotional outburst here, I cannot fathom why you are still sticking around. If you do not wish to contribute to the chapel costs, no one is pointing a gun at you to do so. Yet, you still want frequent the chapel and receive the sacraments from the hands of the same priests and criticize them high and low! Amazing!
From my take, Fr. Couture made a prudential decision regardless of the voting. I have encountered priests in my life who made decisions I did not personally like, but I accepted it and not go around sulking or maligning them.
You talk about accountability. Does publishing it in the chapel bulletin equates accountability? Is showing the accounts during the meeting not accountable enough? After all, as I was also told, guests are allowed to attend. Did you ever bother to ask for the accounts in the first place? And please, don't start on matters like accepting Judaism, et cetera, and try to muddle the issue. You are publicly maligning priests, and your so-called proofs are merely from your own perspective, which I think, perhaps caused by previous misunderstandings.
With such heightened anger and emotions at play, my take is that prospective converts to Tradition would be put off by such behavior. I will not accept any compromise with doctrine, but both of you are causing a disservice to the cause of Tradition and the SSPX by such reckless behavior. And you seriously expect growth even if there is a physically bigger chapel? Seriously?
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Trento,
This is a cesspool- would be better if we get out of such bestial company.
Biting the hand that feeds her, perpetually distorting truths and facts , maligning all around her, bringing tears to priests( that's literal).
May God have mercy on them.
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Laity are continually being mistreated by the current leaders of the SSPX, and the answers of the loyalists and hangers on is that it's for their own good.
People who have given their time and money to the SSPX deserve honesty and transparency, and gratitude.
Instead we have Bishop Felllay pretending the whole history of what the SSPX has taught about Vatican II was some sort of misunderstanding, acting as though Benedict XVI were interested in aiding Catholic tradition.
http://www.tagtele.com/videos/voir/36078/1
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Exactly Telesphorus!
We are now at a crossroad where the blind & gullible faction blindly follows Fellay to newRome and the thinking side that will not sell their souls for a so-called recognition are being told to just trust the infiltrators who want to kill SSPX.We are obliged to always discern the spirits when we are tempted. This whole crisis reminds me of those poor souls who died in 9/11 because they were told to go back to their offices instead of exiting the twin towers like my friend did...and she was in a leg cast. Don't listen to stupid people!
We have blindly donated thousands of dollars to SSPX for the past 8 years and we have given them our absolute trust & loyalty. But now I see how how money & power at the highest levels corrupt even good priests.
Trento: Fr. Couture & Bp. Fellay is accountable for every soul they are in charge with and every penny they take from those souls. That's straight talk from a mother of 7 children who doesn't hide behind a fake name. If you think I have an axe to grind, God's holy axe is even bigger.
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Zorayda, I agree with you on the objective betrayal in the SSPX.
Please let's still keep unemotional and focused on the important things. We're in danger of getting angry because of what is happening (in particular I do), but it's important to have clean conversations with our opponents.
One poster mentioned Bishop Williamson and how decent he talks even with his opponents. I think it's a good idea to take him as an example also in this aspect. Then we'll also remember his faithful way to comment events, when in the end he underlines that everything is in God's hand. His words: Watch and pray, watch and pray, fifteen mysteries every day...
For example the following I found to be superfluous:
So Trento ... you are probably one of those special members hand picked by Fr. Couture to control your lovely country club chapel in KL, Malaysia. I've been there and I'm actually visiting again with my 7 children. Please tell the Lims, your country club coordinators, that I will not avail of that prison-like crying room designed to suffocate small children & to turn away growing families. :baby:
Instead, my growing family will happily seat ourselves right in the front row.
Firstly this is not very important concerning the SSPX sellout. Secondly these rooms in SSPX chapels are very common in European countries for example. Because clearly they're a good idea for mothers with small children who're always on the move or who're cry-babies. I would not hold it against Fr. Couture or his supporters.
Indeed when (smaller) children start to disturb the Holy Mass, it's appropriate for one of the parents or older siblings to move to the background or mother-child-rooms with them. Usually these rooms got loud-speakers so the baby-sitters can still hear the Holy Mass and sermon.
We could recall St Patre Pio's strong comments on how silent, pious and concentrated the people shall be who attend a Holy Mass with the Almighty God being present in the Most Holy Sacrament. (Compare this to the horrific time during Luther, when in the heart of catholic Europe too many catholics lost any respect for the Holy Mass...)
Of course such rooms underline the emergency situation we catholics live in, where usually we need to drive long distances to go to the chapels, so that the entire family has to go to Holy Mass at once.
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We are now at a crossroad where the blind & gullible faction blindly follows Fellay to newRome and the thinking side that will not sell their souls for a so-called recognition are being told to just trust the infiltrators who want to kill SSPX. We are obliged to always discern the spirits when we are tempted.
[..]
We have blindly donated thousands of dollars to SSPX for the past 8 years and we have given them our absolute trust & loyalty. But now I see how how money & power at the highest levels corrupt even good priests.
Trento: Fr. Couture & Bp. Fellay is accountable for every soul they are in charge with and every penny they take from those souls. That's straight talk from a mother of 7 children who doesn't hide behind a fake name. If you think I have an axe to grind, God's holy axe is even bigger.
It's true what you say. And these are very sad facts... Especially for those who only now learn about the betrayal in the SSPX. Some catholics already saw it coming when the SSPX leadership rode roughshod over one of its own bishops in 2009. But anyway, now the betrayal is there totally and it's not masked any longer.
Concerning Fr. Couture I'd only like to say again that unfortunately he's 100% behind Bp Fellay, and so he's also opposed to Bishop Williamson and the other clerics who follow Archbishop Lefebvre in resisting the SSPX sellout to New-Rome.
Generally speaking I'm surprised how the so called "followers" of Archbishop Lefebvre can tell and do the exact opposite of what he said and did (http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Eleison-Comments-Number-CCLIV-254). They use him as a fig-leaf today. A crying shame...
Obviously the great problem is that not enough leading SSPX priests, or Bp Fellay, understand the nature of modernism. It is such a corrupt and dangerous "animal", and New-Rome and the New-Pope are totally infected with it.
Unfortunately the modern man has lost the object, because he has wanted to lose it. It takes away his liberty to change reality according to his wishes...
That's also why there was The Fall, isn't it?
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Exactly Telesphorus!
We are now at a crossroad where the blind & gullible faction blindly follows Fellay to newRome and the thinking side that will not sell their souls for a so-called recognition are being told to just trust the infiltrators who want to kill SSPX.We are obliged to always discern the spirits when we are tempted. This whole crisis reminds me of those poor souls who died in 9/11 because they were told to go back to their offices instead of exiting the twin towers like my friend did...and she was in a leg cast. Don't listen to stupid people!
We have blindly donated thousands of dollars to SSPX for the past 8 years and we have given them our absolute trust & loyalty. But now I see how how money & power at the highest levels corrupt even good priests.
Trento: Fr. Couture & Bp. Fellay is accountable for every soul they are in charge with and every penny they take from those souls. That's straight talk from a mother of 7 children who doesn't hide behind a fake name. If you think I have an axe to grind, God's holy axe is even bigger.
So why aren't you exiting? What else do is needed to show that there's an agenda behind your foul behavior?
Perhaps your donations were more than mine, but does it give you the license to go around maligning or disrespecting others with impunity, more so in a public forum, and consecrated souls at that?
This is also the 2nd time that you wrote about you and your 7 kids. No offense to mothers out there, but besides money, is having lots of kids, somehow a 'Traditional Catholic license' for dictating and imposing one's will upon others? Is this how Traditional Catholics behave?
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Zorayda, I agree with you on the objective betrayal in the SSPX.
Please let's still keep unemotional and focused on the important things. We're in danger of getting angry because of what is happening (in particular I do), but it's important to have clean conversations with our opponents.
Quite difficult to do so when someone is made of Teflon. Completely frustrating. Menzingen simply had to do an audit on the trips undertaken to see if there was substance to the complaints made out to them. He has his fanatical supporters who have made him into another Papa Doc Duvalier - President for Life. What is rotten is soon going to fall. "Keep the Faith" he keeps telling us. Ironically, a "deal" may spell the end of The Society in Asia.
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Ethelred-Indeed when (smaller) children start to disturb the Holy Mass, it's appropriate for one of the parents or older siblings to move to the background or mother-child-rooms with them. Usually these rooms got loud-speakers so the baby-sitters can still hear the Holy Mass and sermon.
I see how you would think a crying room is useful for everyone. But you have to know that our crying room in Malaysia is not what you invision. Our crying room is a room that the mothers have to share with other parents with young kids that are old enough to sit outside. No one bother to make sure that the crying room is actually for crying babies. And it has only one small pew that can sit one parent with 2 small kids. The rest have to sit in the back of the room,3ft away where it is within reach of a a book shelf full of books for sale.
You think it is difficult to control a hyper child in the chapel until you walk into our 'crying room'. Even a well behave child becomes naughty. Mind you the chapel itself is very small. the size of the crying room.. And you said when a child acts up it is good to go to the crying room. I don't know any mother who would sit in the front pew while her child screams his head off..we have no problem using the room. But have you heard of priest pulling a mother into the crying room before the Mass starts and the baby is not even crying or making any noise because the coordinator thinks that we are compromising the sanctity of the chapel.
I have always tried to teach my children to behave at Mass from birth. We have occasion outburst but they are less than 30 secs in. Any longer I would move to the crying room to settle them and come out again. Because I have found the crying room an environment that is not inductive for a child or baby to pay attention to the Mass. It is just a playground to them. And as the chapel is jam packed it is not even a crying room anymore but that doesn't stop the persecutors from giving death stares at toddlers for making occasional babbling noise...it isn't even crying.
Catholics are suppose to have as many children as God pleases but the lack of toleration from adults for innocent children is really appaling. We are not nagging, we are handling the situation and just want to share with you the type of things that can happen in a little chapel where the priest and people in power play politics.
These treatments are not across the board for all children that are noisy. Some older kids can bang their feet and hands on the pews or walk up and down the aisle during the sermon..these 'police' in the chapel wouldn't even bat an eyelid. But one babble from my baby, you think I have kill his father!
trenton-So why aren't you exiting? What else do is needed to show that there's an agenda behind your foul behavior
Trento, we don't just leave because we are being persecuted by priest and layman. The purpose of going to Mass is the sacrifice of the Mass, to fulfill my Sunday obligation. I didn't come here for the other people or to please them. If I was what you say, an emotional mess as you describe us, we would have been long gone. On the other hand I see that by your constant suggestion the that we should leave only tells me that you are here because you found friends. If they are not friendly to you, you would think it would be just, to leave and high tail out of there.
Foul behavior..I don't even understand what you think we have done that is so foul. You find us airing the dirty laundry, filty, but you don't find the laundry a bit dirty..you have one disturbed mind. There is a limit to defends. I have only given facts. I have not peppered salted anything. You have eyes, you do not see, ears you do not hear.
The bottom line good priests make good faithful. When we have good non nonsense priest, we never get persecuted..but the moment a new priest who is easily influenced by the coordinator comes to serve us, in no time at all the same rhetroric comes up. This is real persecution.
All this for what..because we wanted to support a move to a bigger place.
Trento..we know your Mecca is Thou shall not talk bad of priests and bishops.This is your one and only defence.
My Agenda...for once I would like to attend Mass in peace, free from persecution. But I will have to wait until this deal goes through first. I know God is not offended by the presence of the little ones no matter how noisy they may be...they can't offend God..yet somehow they can offend Man...
As for going to 2 separate masses at different times..not possible..we have only one evening mass but even then I was even asked to stay home with little ones who doesnt cry...somehow they found baby babbling super annoying even when it is only for a second. Can one parent watch over 6-7 small children?
We have not dictated anything..we have always been on the receiving end of the dictatives.
...
We mention our children over and over again...because they are the future of the Church whom these people chose to shamelessly attack. And what have we impose on them...we only ask for a bigger chapel to be run by a local malaysian priest that converted to Tradition instead of a coordinator who limit everyone's access to the chapel and priests. A coordinator that even dictates when, where or how the priest do anything. Of course that is way before your time if you even need a 3rd party source to verify the facts.
The extend of the control is beyond your imagination. More than a handful of parishioners at their house clearly heard the coordinator boasting how she reprimanded the district superior for doing penance in her house. She was relating to us that she found out the priest slept on the floor the night before as the mattress was not slept on. so she scolded him " no one sleeps on my floor" to the embarrassment of the priest. And she was so very proud that she reprimanded him and somehow waiting to hear our acknowledgement of approval?! Are we the dictator here...I think not!
If the SSPX continue to be ruled by such leaders, it will be the end for our children be they 1 or 10.
But no matter what we say..it will violate your only code of honor. So I think this is my last post because I really don't want to hear your broken record...
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Zorayda, I agree with you on the objective betrayal in the SSPX.
Please let's still keep unemotional and focused on the important things. We're in danger of getting angry because of what is happening (in particular I do), but it's important to have clean conversations with our opponents.
Quite difficult to do so when someone is made of Teflon. Completely frustrating. Menzingen simply had to do an audit on the trips undertaken to see if there was substance to the complaints made out to them. He has his fanatical supporters who have made him into another Papa Doc Duvalier - President for Life. What is rotten is soon going to fall. "Keep the Faith" he keeps telling us. Ironically, a "deal" may spell the end of The Society in Asia.
Funny you say this. We did bring this up with Fr. Nely. He admitted that Fr. couture was wrong and all the abuse thrown at the children also wrong...but say...he can't do anything about it because it is upto Fr. Couture to change...
Being a superior, knowing something is wrong but do not stop it...you can say that it isn't because Fr. Nely couldn't do anything..he didn't want to do anything about it because this is part of a bigger plan....we when through all the points in the list of objections to move and he agree that they were not valid reasons at all and he clearly admitted to us that it is clearly done to protect the interest of the coordinator....now..it is time for the coordinator to protect the interest of the district superior. You scratch my back, i scratch your back.
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Concerning Fr. Couture I'd only like to say again that unfortunately he's 100% behind Bp Fellay, and so he's also opposed to Bishop Williamson and the other clerics who follow Archbishop Lefebvre in resisting the SSPX sellout to New-Rome.
SSPX ASIA is a small district as far as numbers and priests are concerned. Many of the priests are against the deal with Rome - they say so openly or privately. Strange situation for the moment at least. The inferiors have become superior and vice versa!
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Thanks to Francisco for the information about the Asia district.
And thanks to Angelia for explaining the situation with this special mother-child-room. Now I understand. Very bad situation indeed. :-(
Let's pray for Bishop Williamson, his allied two bishops and the allied clerics who try to save the SSPX.
Bp Fellay, Fr Pfluger and their shameless sellout team must go. It's the only way to save the SSPX. Only God can help us with this. May he have mercy upon us.
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Thanks to Francisco for the information about the Asia district.
And thanks to Angelia for explaining the situation with this special mother-child-room. Now I understand. Very bad situation indeed. :-(
Let's pray for Bishop Williamson, his allied two bishops and the allied clerics who try to save the SSPX.
Bp Fellay, Fr Pfluger and their shameless sellout team must go. It's the only way to save the SSPX. Only God can help us with this. May he have mercy upon us.
Ethelred, this is from the Anonymous department of this forum:
.....It seems that the District Superior of the Asia District of the SSPX realizes that the majority of priests and faithful in his district are against the deal with Rome. It seems unlikely that he will publicly support the deal even though, as it has been claimed elsewhere on this forum, that he belongs to Bishop Fellay's "inner circle".
Bishop Bernard Fellay seems to have inflicted severe damage on the morale of the priests, at least one of whom said he might quit the priesthood altogether. The priests no longer hide their views about Fellay.....
Most of us will agree with you that Bp Fellay and his shameless sellout team must go. What do you think of FR PAUL MORGAN of the United Kingdom as the new Superior General?
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Ethelred-Indeed when (smaller) children start to disturb the Holy Mass, it's appropriate for one of the parents or older siblings to move to the background or mother-child-rooms with them. Usually these rooms got loud-speakers so the baby-sitters can still hear the Holy Mass and sermon.
I see how you would think a crying room is useful for everyone. But you have to know that our crying room in Malaysia is not what you invision. Our crying room is a room that the mothers have to share with other parents with young kids that are old enough to sit outside. No one bother to make sure that the crying room is actually for crying babies. And it has only one small pew that can sit one parent with 2 small kids. The rest have to sit in the back of the room,3ft away where it is within reach of a a book shelf full of books for sale.
You think it is difficult to control a hyper child in the chapel until you walk into our 'crying room'. Even a well behave child becomes naughty. Mind you the chapel itself is very small. the size of the crying room.. And you said when a child acts up it is good to go to the crying room. I don't know any mother who would sit in the front pew while her child screams his head off..we have no problem using the room. But have you heard of priest pulling a mother into the crying room before the Mass starts and the baby is not even crying or making any noise because the coordinator thinks that we are compromising the sanctity of the chapel.
I have always tried to teach my children to behave at Mass from birth. We have occasion outburst but they are less than 30 secs in. Any longer I would move to the crying room to settle them and come out again. Because I have found the crying room an environment that is not inductive for a child or baby to pay attention to the Mass. It is just a playground to them. And as the chapel is jam packed it is not even a crying room anymore but that doesn't stop the persecutors from giving death stares at toddlers for making occasional babbling noise...it isn't even crying.
Catholics are suppose to have as many children as God pleases but the lack of toleration from adults for innocent children is really appaling. We are not nagging, we are handling the situation and just want to share with you the type of things that can happen in a little chapel where the priest and people in power play politics.
These treatments are not across the board for all children that are noisy. Some older kids can bang their feet and hands on the pews or walk up and down the aisle during the sermon..these 'police' in the chapel wouldn't even bat an eyelid. But one babble from my baby, you think I have kill his father!
trenton-So why aren't you exiting? What else do is needed to show that there's an agenda behind your foul behavior
Trento, we don't just leave because we are being persecuted by priest and layman. The purpose of going to Mass is the sacrifice of the Mass, to fulfill my Sunday obligation. I didn't come here for the other people or to please them. If I was what you say, an emotional mess as you describe us, we would have been long gone. On the other hand I see that by your constant suggestion the that we should leave only tells me that you are here because you found friends. If they are not friendly to you, you would think it would be just, to leave and high tail out of there.
Foul behavior..I don't even understand what you think we have done that is so foul. You find us airing the dirty laundry, filty, but you don't find the laundry a bit dirty..you have one disturbed mind. There is a limit to defends. I have only given facts. I have not peppered salted anything. You have eyes, you do not see, ears you do not hear.
The bottom line good priests make good faithful. When we have good non nonsense priest, we never get persecuted..but the moment a new priest who is easily influenced by the coordinator comes to serve us, in no time at all the same rhetroric comes up. This is real persecution.
All this for what..because we wanted to support a move to a bigger place.
Trento..we know your Mecca is Thou shall not talk bad of priests and bishops.This is your one and only defence.
My Agenda...for once I would like to attend Mass in peace, free from persecution. But I will have to wait until this deal goes through first. I know God is not offended by the presence of the little ones no matter how noisy they may be...they can't offend God..yet somehow they can offend Man...
As for going to 2 separate masses at different times..not possible..we have only one evening mass but even then I was even asked to stay home with little ones who doesnt cry...somehow they found baby babbling super annoying even when it is only for a second. Can one parent watch over 6-7 small children?
We have not dictated anything..we have always been on the receiving end of the dictatives.
...
We mention our children over and over again...because they are the future of the Church whom these people chose to shamelessly attack. And what have we impose on them...we only ask for a bigger chapel to be run by a local malaysian priest that converted to Tradition instead of a coordinator who limit everyone's access to the chapel and priests. A coordinator that even dictates when, where or how the priest do anything. Of course that is way before your time if you even need a 3rd party source to verify the facts.
The extend of the control is beyond your imagination. More than a handful of parishioners at their house clearly heard the coordinator boasting how she reprimanded the district superior for doing penance in her house. She was relating to us that she found out the priest slept on the floor the night before as the mattress was not slept on. so she scolded him " no one sleeps on my floor" to the embarrassment of the priest. And she was so very proud that she reprimanded him and somehow waiting to hear our acknowledgement of approval?! Are we the dictator here...I think not!
If the SSPX continue to be ruled by such leaders, it will be the end for our children be they 1 or 10.
But no matter what we say..it will violate your only code of honor. So I think this is my last post because I really don't want to hear your broken record...
Angelia, if you are reading this, here's my summary of the problems:
This thread starts with accusations against Bishop Fellay doing a 'sellout'. Later it descended into accusations against Fr. Couture of supporting Bishop Fellay's 'sellout', and then the Lims were later added into your mudslinging litany. Chronologically, I can deduce that it first started out with misunderstandings between you and the Lims, then Fr. Couture came into the picture to mediate, thus you started attacking him as well when you did not like his decisions, and now with the latest developments between Rome and the Society, you had a brilliant eureka moment saying, "That's it! It was all planned from the very beginning, even decades ago!" The more you reveal, the more amazed I get!
If my memory did not fail me, there was an occasion on my visit to the chapel many years back that the priest stopped his sermon temporarily when the noise was getting unbearable and only then, did your husband (I suppose the biggest family in the chapel were yours?) got the hint and took the noisy child into the crying room. Is that considered 'persecution'? On other visits, I did notice other children being noisy too, but I don't think it was your family and the parents promptly removed the child without having to wait for hints. I was seated at the back, so I could see what was going on. Obviously then, the problem is not with the children, but rather with the adults supervising the children! People in front will understandably stare behind if there are disturbances, and it could be from any child, not only yours.
When I mediate a dispute between two feuding parties, I usually try to understand the situation and views and stories from both parties. Then I get third party witnesses for corroboration. So far, all the malicious comments against Fr. Couture came from you and you alone. Zorayda can speak for the Philippines or from the States where she regularly attends Mass, while I have my own observations and sources in Malaysia (not related to the Lims, FYI, and who also wishes to attend Holy Mass in peace like you do).
You seem to take lightly serious faults such as calumniating priests and bishops, and forgetting other virtues such as obedience (provided obeying a particular order is not sinful in itself). Beware, what comes around goes around. The scandal coming from such violations is far-reaching and immense, especially on Internet forums such as these for they are stored and available, maybe even long after we are gone from the face of this earth!
Regarding your account of the coordinator's extent of control on the priests, I could not believe it that you couldn't even tell when a person is jesting and or when a person is serious! Really? The laity telling a priest he could not do penance, and you actually bought it hook, line and sinker? :facepalm: A sad saint really is a sad saint. My take is probably you have a choleric temperament and are easily ruffled or offended on the smallest of matters. You may deny it, but that's what I can conclude after reading your posts. Please, first be at peace with yourself, else you will always have this siege mentality that you are being targeted for 'persecution' which are of your own making. It will be sad when real persecution comes and hits you in the face, and you do no recognize it.
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If there is a rebellion ending talks with Rome and replacing the leadership, then the Society will rejuvenate itself but the bureaucracy will need completely overhauling to remove that weakening 'spirit of reconciliation'.
.. Do the auxiliary bishops have the courage and energy to undertake the massive task of rebuilding the SSPX from the ground up? Who will pay for new chapel buildings, travel and living expenses, etc.? ..:
I would not break away, let Fellay break away. We don't have to rebuild, just keep what we have. A "rebellion ending talks with Rome and replacing the leadership" is the most prudent path, and the easiest. It does not take any "energy" on the part of the three bishops to let the Fellay's go their own way.
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If there is a rebellion ending talks with Rome and replacing the leadership, then the Society will rejuvenate itself but the bureaucracy will need completely overhauling to remove that weakening 'spirit of reconciliation'.
.. Do the auxiliary bishops have the courage and energy to undertake the massive task of rebuilding the SSPX from the ground up? Who will pay for new chapel buildings, travel and living expenses, etc.? ..:
I would not break away, let Fellay break away. We don't have to rebuild, just keep what we have. A "rebellion ending talks with Rome and replacing the leadership" is the most prudent path, and the easiest. It does not take any "energy" on the part of the three bishops to let the Fellay's go their own way.
A good sentiment however, it is a certainty that Bishop Fellay and Mr. Krah have secured all assets and properties under Bishop Fellay's sole control.
He will take everything with him, including the name.
The others will be esssentially, penniless.