Author Topic: SSPX Trad Culture is Near Dead (Read 3917 times)

Last Tradhican · « **on:** October 06, 2019, 10:04:28 AM »

Pax Vobis posted this in another thread and it struck a cord with me, as I have observed the same at my chapel, but starting about 9 years ago. The new people were/are never taught anything about tradition, they were/are just accepted as they are. None have grown in the faith and many have retrogressed big time. The little girls that grew up during the time are now getting pregnant out of wedlock and it is spreading like a wild fire. By their deeds you shall know them. I do not know what happened to the SSPX hierarchy, but they have in a short time made the SSPX irrelevant.

Quote

I remember in the early 2000s when I noticed that the sspx was accepting a large number of novus ordo "converts" (this was before the motu proprio of 2008, mind you). The problem was that the sspx was not educating these people on how to be traditional. They would continue to dress casually and they were bouncing from the sspx to the novus ordo, depending on the week. The point is, the sspx was not trying to convert them, but just inviting them to come anytime they wanted. I knew this would eventually cause a problem because it would water down the Faith for others.
.
Well, now it's 2019 and we have the perfect analogy for what the sspx allowed to happen back then. It's the same thing the elites are doing to europe/US - allow a bunch of non-europe migrants into the country and what do you get after a few years? A totally changed culture; a loss of the former culture. The sspx lost its Traditionalism (this is one of many reasons) because they allowed all sorts of non-Trads into their churches, without any proper integration. Their Trad culture is now dead.

tdrev123 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 06, 2019, 01:59:29 PM »

Quote from: Last Tradhican on October 06, 2019, 10:04:28 AM

Pax Vobis posted this in another thread and it struck a cord with me, as I have observed the same at my chapel, but starting about 9 years ago. The new people were/are never taught anything about tradition, they were/are just accepted as they are. None have grown in the faith and many have retrogressed big time. The little girls that grew up during the time are now getting pregnant out of wedlock and it is spreading like a wild fire. By their deeds you shall know them. I do not know what happened to the SSPX hierarchy, but they have in a short time made the SSPX irrelevant.

I just saw women in pants at todays sunday mass.
Laypeople were singing in the pews during mass.
Skirts above the knees from teenagers to older ladies.
Both ushers were wearing polo shirts.

Merry · « **Reply #2 on:** October 06, 2019, 02:12:47 PM »

Novus Ordo people need to be treated like converts/protestants. They are no better than that. They have very little Catholicity, if at all, in their background. For sure they need a catechism course, along with checking their sacramental background (baptism). The True Faith and its beliefs and practices is way different than what the New Church offers. Such people need to catch up and adapt/convert before receiving Holy Communion. They must first be allowed to see what they are getting into and if they agree to truly be "True Catholic."

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #3 on:** October 06, 2019, 05:25:47 PM »

Quote from: tdrev123 on October 06, 2019, 01:59:29 PM

Skirts above the knees from teenagers to older ladies.

That is only the tip of the iceberg, for during the week they wear short shorts, tight jeans, mini-skirts, tank tops with belly exposed, bikinis ……..

Those same young people only go to mass because of their parents, for now. The older ladies (mothers from 20 to whatever) that dress the same way, only go to mass because of their little children or their old parents (or both), to keep up appearances.

The way they dress and act is the outward manifestation of their total loss of the faith, they are dead souls. They are indifferent to the faith, lukewarm hypocrites, going to mass and maybe even confession, but continue fornicating, adultery, contraception, flaunting their stuff.... They may be better off being cold fulltime and staying away from the Church.

Our Lord said that "because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, not hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth" Apoc 3:16

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #4 on:** October 06, 2019, 05:30:23 PM »

Quote from: Last Tradhican on October 06, 2019, 05:25:47 PM

That is only the tip of the iceberg, for during the week they wear short shorts, tight jeans, mini-skirts, tank tops with belly exposed, bikinis ……..

The priest see them and how they dress when they go about town, and they say NOTHING. The SSPX has become irrelevant. They teach catechism, but not how to LIVE it.

Matthew · « **Reply #5 on:** October 06, 2019, 05:51:34 PM »

Quote from: Merry on October 06, 2019, 02:12:47 PM

Novus Ordo people need to be treated like converts/protestants. They are no better than that. They have very little Catholicity, if at all, in their background. For sure they need a catechism course, along with checking their sacramental background (baptism). The True Faith and its beliefs and practices is way different than what the New Church offers. Such people need to catch up and adapt/convert before receiving Holy Communion. They must first be allowed to see what they are getting into and if they agree to truly be "True Catholic."

I understand where you're coming from, and I'm not disagreeing that the SSPX has become very worldly and is full of problems, but there is one way in which all Trad priests' hands are tied. Let me put it this way:

What would you think about a chapel which scrutinized each potential member, treating them as non-Catholic until proven otherwise? Background checks, signing statements, written abjurations, cross examination by a panel of clerics and/or laypeople, and "guilty until proven innocent" with regards to being a "True Catholic"?

What would you say about such a group to your friends offline and online? I guarantee you would call them a CULT and you wouldn't be far off base!

It's even more than public relations though: what about the status of Trad chapels and Supplied Jurisdiction? Let's put it this way: the Catholic Church has NEVER been an exclusive club where the lukewarm and bad Catholics are barred at the door. If a chapel is to receive "supplied jurisdiction" from the Church to open essentially a "franchise" of the Catholic Church, don't they have to operate under the bylaws and rules of that franchise?

Operating a franchise without permission of the franchise owner is illegal. In the world of religion, opening a branch of the Catholic Church but refusing to follow all her laws is SCHISM. You're starting your own church.

The Catholic Church (which every single Trad chapel wants to be part of, and connected to) has ALWAYS been, from the very beginning, a net full of fishes, which the fisherman sifts through, throwing the good ones into the KEEP bucket and the crap into the slop bucket for the animals. See also: the parable of the Wheat and the Tares, "Many are called but few are chosen", etc.

As soon as you move beyond that, and try to "improve" upon Christ's Church -- even with the best of intentions -- you begin treading the path of every "reformer" (HERETIC!) in history.

Matthew · « **Reply #6 on:** October 06, 2019, 05:58:01 PM »

Quote from: Last Tradhican on October 06, 2019, 05:30:23 PM

The priest see them and how they dress when they go about town, and they say NOTHING. The SSPX has become irrelevant. They teach catechism, but not how to LIVE it.

Yes, the priests need to say something, regardless of the consequences. They need to do their jobs. Of course, it is also said that the people get the priest they deserve.

I've heard countless times about good priests preaching against this or that sin, or strongly encouraging the men of the parish to step up and serve Mass, and then that priest "gets in trouble" with the SSPX authorities after the Faithful complain -- and then a new priest is sent. Obviously that new priest is going to keep quiet about certain abuses, otherwise the cycle would continue!

Like I said: people get the priest they deserve. If they want to be worldly and lukewarm, eventually they will get "set up" with a priest who will accommodate them. But in their sorry end state, whose fault will it be -- the priest's or the faithful's? I'd say the latter. They created the DEMAND for a see-no-evil live-and-let-live priest. The SSPX authorities only gave in to their request (eventually).

Seraphina · « **Reply #7 on:** October 06, 2019, 06:35:26 PM »

Quote from: Matthew on October 06, 2019, 05:51:34 PM

I understand where you're coming from, and I'm not disagreeing that the SSPX has become very worldly and is full of problems, but there is one way in which all Trad priests' hands are tied. Let me put it this way:

What would you think about a chapel which scrutinized each potential member, treating them as non-Catholic until proven otherwise? Background checks, signing statements, written abjurations, cross examination by a panel of clerics and/or laypeople, and "guilty until proven innocent" with regards to being a "True Catholic"?

What would you say about such a group to your friends offline and online? I guarantee you would call them a CULT and you wouldn't be far off base!

It's even more than public relations though: what about the status of Trad chapels and Supplied Jurisdiction? Let's put it this way: the Catholic Church has NEVER been an exclusive club where the lukewarm and bad Catholics are barred at the door. If a chapel is to receive "supplied jurisdiction" from the Church to open essentially a "franchise" of the Catholic Church, don't they have to operate under the bylaws and rules of that franchise?

Operating a franchise without permission of the franchise owner is illegal. In the world of religion, opening a branch of the Catholic Church but refusing to follow all her laws is SCHISM. You're starting your own church.

The Catholic Church (which every single Trad chapel wants to be part of, and connected to) has ALWAYS been, from the very beginning, a net full of fishes, which the fisherman sifts through, throwing the good ones into the KEEP bucket and the crap into the slop bucket for the animals. See also: the parable of the Wheat and the Tares, "Many are called but few are chosen", etc.

As soon as you move beyond that, and try to "improve" upon Christ's Church -- even with the best of intentions -- you begin treading the path of every "reformer" (HERETIC!) in history.

This describes perfectly many a fundamentalist Protestant sect. I know because I’ve been there, done that. It doesn’t work. The SSPX and other traditional Catholic groups, ALL Catholics in fact, need to be properly catechized, not just on the facts but on the application in life outside the confines of the chapel property, but it’s nothing one can legislate by rules beyond the Church as a whole.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #8 on:** October 06, 2019, 07:07:30 PM »

Indeed, it just takes a single rotten apple to spoil the entire bushel. Priests should understand the downward gravity of human nature due to Original Sin. More often, the bad ones spoil the good ones, rather than the good ones making the spoiled ones bad. Can all the good apples in a bushel somehow unspoil the rotten apple, or does it work the other way around? Bishop Williamson was good at explaining this, the drag caused by Original Sin, where if you're not making progress in the spiritual life, you're actually going backwards, since we're swimming against the current of Original Sin.

But I guess that the new SSPX leadership wanted to banish the old guard "prophets of doom and gloom", the pessimism of the Williamson era, and open the windows of the SSPX to the Novus Ordo. How did that work out after Vatican II? But I guess they were unable to learn the lesson.

Ascetik · « **Reply #9 on:** October 06, 2019, 10:56:55 PM »

I don't understand why modesty is not enforced at the door of chapels, whether SSPX, ICKSP, FSSP whatever.

If you go to Rome they give all the women a blue sash to cover their chest or legs if their skirts are too short. We really need to get back to priests supporting the ushers enforcement of these rules. I've only been to one SSPX parish in my 15 years as a trad where an usher checked you at the door and made you dress modestly, and that was Fr. Danel's parish in Roswell, GA, and I'm not even sure if it's still enforced anymore since I haven't been there in 5 years.

We're going to pay a price if we don't get this modesty thing under control, it is one of the biggest problems in traditional Catholicism right now IMO.

Feminism and worldliness needs to be heavily denounced from the pulpit these days. Nothing is being said or done.

There is a new family at my parish, they've been there about 2 months now and this guy's wife dresses like a total hooker. 4 or 5 inch heels. Skirt mid thigh. Low cut top.

We had a parish picnic today and she was wearing a MINI SKIRT. A MINI SKIRT. Priests said nothing, no one said anything to her. This miniskirt was 3/4ths the way up her thigh. It's what a hooker would literally wear on the street. It's just unbelievable to me.

Sometimes I feel like I should say something but I have no idea how to approach the situation, she isn't my wife and her husband should know better. He has 6 kids and is a cradle Catholic.

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #10 on:** October 07, 2019, 09:05:22 AM »

Quote from: Ascetik on October 06, 2019, 10:56:55 PM

There is a new family at my parish, they've been there about 2 months now and this guy's wife dresses like a total hooker. 4 or 5 inch heels. Skirt mid thigh. Low cut top.

We had a parish picnic today and she was wearing a MINI SKIRT. A MINI SKIRT. Priests said nothing, no one said anything to her. This miniskirt was 3/4ths the way up her thigh. It's what a hooker would literally wear on the street. It's just unbelievable to me.

Sometimes I feel like I should say something but I have no idea how to approach the situation, she isn't my wife and her husband should know better. He has 6 kids and is a cradle Catholic.

We had a similar case and it turned out the wife was on the prowl, she was cheating on her husband, an adulteress. Some husbands are naïve. One has to ask themselves, why does a mother of 6, or any mother, need to dress provocatively? Well, that husband found out the answer the hard way. The way they dress is just an outward manifestation of their soul.

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #11 on:** October 07, 2019, 09:08:04 AM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on October 06, 2019, 07:07:30 PM

But I guess that the new SSPX leadership wanted to banish the old guard "prophets of doom and gloom", the pessimism of the Williamson era, and open the windows of the SSPX to the Novus Ordo. How did that work out after Vatican II? But I guess they were unable to learn the lesson.

It's Vatican II all over again, we are re-living 1965, and in the end there will be a few trads that start things all over again with independent chapels and masses in hotels etc.

Matthew · « **Reply #12 on:** October 07, 2019, 09:30:58 AM »

Quote from: Last Tradhican on October 07, 2019, 09:08:04 AM

It's Vatican II all over again, we are re-living 1965, and in the end there will be a few trads that start things all over again with independent chapels and masses in hotels etc.

It's happening now. See: the SSPX Resistance.

Matthew · « **Reply #13 on:** October 07, 2019, 09:33:04 AM »

Quote from: Last Tradhican on October 07, 2019, 09:05:22 AM

We had a similar case and it turned out the wife was on the prowl, she was cheating on her husband, an adulteress. Some husbands are naïve. One has to ask themselves, why does a mother of 6, or any mother, need to dress provocatively? Well, that husband found out the answer the hard way. The way they dress is just an outward manifestation of their soul.

Anyone with common sense and a basic knowledge of human nature would have seen this.
Why put your house on the market if "selling it" is completely out of the question? Obviously you're considering "offers" on your house if you bother to place it on the market.

Why attract so many men to you, if you supposedly already have a man, to whom you have promised yourself for life? It doesn't make sense.

And there is a world of difference between being beautiful and being provocative. Again, one has to appeal to common sense to tell the difference.

How about this standard? If the thing would make Our Lady, your sister, your mother, or your daughter more beautiful, then it's beauty. But if it would be disturbing to you, then it's probably a whore tactic.

Men instinctively know this, too. How many men react WELL, INTERNALLY, when they see their daughter wearing a miniskirt and 4 inch heels, dressed like a prostitute? NONE OF THEM. But most of them overcome their natural disgust and joke about it, etc.

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #14 on:** October 07, 2019, 09:37:20 AM »

Quote from: Matthew on October 06, 2019, 05:51:34 PM

The Catholic Church (which every single Trad chapel wants to be part of, and connected to) has ALWAYS been, from the very beginning, a net full of fishes, which the fisherman sifts through, throwing the good ones into the KEEP bucket and the crap into the slop bucket for the animals. See also: the parable of the Wheat and the Tares, "Many are called but few are chosen", etc.

As soon as you move beyond that, and try to "improve" upon Christ's Church -- even with the best of intentions -- you begin treading the path of every "reformer" (HERETIC!) in history.

The new people to a chapel are just like the outsiders that come for someone's funeral or weddings, it is a chance for the priest and the people to snatch someone from the devil, that just happens to be there. They know nothing and have to be taught EVERYTHING, how to dress, how to live, the errors of their ways...… In short, they have to be taught truth from the get go, every second that they are there. The truth will either chase them away or convert them FOR REAL.

The SSPX teaches them nothing of how to LIVE the faith, so they remain in their errors and you have a chapel full of Sunday mass card punchers, people who go to mass, then go in live in the world their irrelevant "catholicism". The SSPX has become irrelevant.

Author Topic: SSPX Trad Culture is Near Dead (Read 3917 times)

Last Tradhican

SSPX Trad Culture is Near Dead

tdrev123

Re: SSPX Trad Culture is Near Dead

Merry

Re: SSPX Trad Culture is Near Dead

Last Tradhican

Re: SSPX Trad Culture is Near Dead

Last Tradhican

Re: SSPX Trad Culture is Near Dead

Matthew

Re: SSPX Trad Culture is Near Dead

Matthew

Re: SSPX Trad Culture is Near Dead

Seraphina

Re: SSPX Trad Culture is Near Dead

Ladislaus

Re: SSPX Trad Culture is Near Dead

Ascetik

Re: SSPX Trad Culture is Near Dead

Last Tradhican

Re: SSPX Trad Culture is Near Dead

Last Tradhican

Re: SSPX Trad Culture is Near Dead

Matthew

Re: SSPX Trad Culture is Near Dead

Matthew

Re: SSPX Trad Culture is Near Dead

Last Tradhican

Re: SSPX Trad Culture is Near Dead