Author Topic: SSPX Morphing: Perpetual Engagements as Seminarians? (Read 9248 times)

obediens · « **Reply #15 on:** May 08, 2019, 02:46:11 PM »

Actually Matthew, and with all due respect, you are wrong.

Before Vatican II (and this is still the case, as a minimum in the 1983 Code) a religious, e.g. Benedictine, Carmelite, Dominican, Franciscan, etc. usually professed solemn/perpetual vows after 1 year of canonical novitiate and 3 years of temporary vows - so only 4 years total. Under the 1983 Code, the novitiate can be extended up to last 2.5 years, and temporary vows up to last 6 years - at the most!

This stipulation to promote for only those perpetually engaged in the SSPX to major orders is actually required by Canon Law. Canon 995 in the 1917 Code, and Canon 1037 in the 1983 Code.

Matthew · « **Reply #16 on:** May 08, 2019, 02:48:00 PM »

In my day, those entering the clerical state (2nd year, Tonsure) would make a 1-year commitment to the SSPX. It wasn't a vow, just a promise with the tabernacle door open for extra gravity.

I've seen people leave the seminary as late as their 5th year. (I even know of one ordained deacon who turned back and is now laicized. I think he had to choose between saying the Divine Office daily for the rest of his life, and being single for the rest of his life.)

How can early year seminarians be making a permanent commitment to ANY priestly society when they're not even a priest yet!

Matthew · « **Reply #17 on:** May 08, 2019, 02:51:36 PM »

Quote from: obediens on May 08, 2019, 02:46:11 PM

Actually Matthew, and with all due respect, you are wrong.

Before Vatican II (and this is still the case, as a minimum in the 1983 Code) a religious, e.g. Benedictine, Carmelite, Dominican, Franciscan, etc. usually professed solemn/perpetual vows after 1 year of canonical novitiate and 3 years of temporary vows - so only 4 years total. Under the 1983 Code, the novitiate can be extended up to last 2.5 years, and temporary vows up to last 6 years - at the most!

This stipulation to promote for only those perpetually engaged in the SSPX to major orders is actually required by Canon Law. Canon 995 in the 1917 Code, and Canon 1037 in the 1983 Code.

Ok, but here's why I was wrong: I have limited knowledge and no direct experience with any religious orders properly speaking -- only to PIOUS UNIONS which is what the SSPX is. I stand corrected.

I will correct myself to: This is not normal behavior for the SSPX, a Pious Union. And if it's so proper, even required, then why was the SSPX derelict in its duties before 1917 Canon Law from 1970 - 2018? Isn't that a bit ridiculous?

The only perpetual vows I saw or heard about in the SSPX organization was for certain brothers who had made several 3-year and several 7-year commitments (all consecutive) to the SSPX. That's where my experience comes from.

obediens · « **Reply #18 on:** May 08, 2019, 02:52:34 PM »

Quote from: obediens on May 08, 2019, 02:46:11 PM

Actually Matthew, and with all due respect, you are wrong.

Before Vatican II (and this is still the case, as a minimum in the 1983 Code) a religious, e.g. Benedictine, Carmelite, Dominican, Franciscan, etc. usually professed solemn/perpetual vows after 1 year of canonical novitiate and 3 years of temporary vows - so only 4 years total. Under the 1983 Code, the novitiate can be extended up to last 2.5 years, and temporary vows up to last 6 years - at the most!

This stipulation to promote for only those perpetually engaged in the SSPX to major orders is actually required by Canon Law. Canon 995 in the 1917 Code, and Canon 1037 in the 1983 Code.

Not that I support them, but members of the FSSP and ICRSS are 'definitively incorporated' into their institutes, before they are advanced to Major Orders. The same goes for other groups, like Sulpicians, Oratorians, and others without vows like Glenmary, Maryknoll, etc.

Matthew · « **Reply #19 on:** May 08, 2019, 02:58:46 PM »

This is about making sure that you don't end up with independent priests -- formed at great seminaries, ordained by 100% valid bishops, but completely on their own.

I hear ya. It's a problem.

However, when you have a Crisis in the Church, then ALL BETS ARE OFF and priests need to abandon ship to help themselves and others to keep their Faith.

Incardination, submission to your local bishop, submission to the Pope, jurisdiction, a celebret to say Mass -- all good things. In short, AUTHORITY is a great thing. IN NORMAL TIMES.

We are not in normal times. (See the corresponding article on TIA about Pope Francis and the Cuban acrobats.)

Vatican II roped in HOW MANY CLERICS to help them in their work of destruction, under the banner of obedience and using their authority?

Don't ever kid yourself that something that worked SO WELL would be put on a shelf somewhere, never to be used again.

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Author Topic: SSPX Morphing: Perpetual Engagements as Seminarians? (Read 9248 times)

obediens

Re: SSPX Morphing: Perpetual Engagements as Seminarians?

Matthew

Re: SSPX Morphing: Perpetual Engagements as Seminarians?

Matthew

Re: SSPX Morphing: Perpetual Engagements as Seminarians?

obediens

Re: SSPX Morphing: Perpetual Engagements as Seminarians?

Matthew

Re: SSPX Morphing: Perpetual Engagements as Seminarians?