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Author Topic: Phoenix sspx chapel update  (Read 110803 times)

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Offline mw2016

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Phoenix sspx chapel update
« Reply #195 on: July 04, 2016, 12:26:55 PM »
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  • Quote from: Cato


      When you contribute to a building fund, general parish support, or what have you, it is "with no strings attached." Most of us know that. That money goes to a supranational organization, head quartered in Switzerland.

      And, more importantly, that's the legal reality.


    I am well aware of the reality.

    What you seem to have forgotten is that what is playing out now in the SSPX is a micro-version of what happened over the entire Church in the 1960's.

    The Church will have the real estate (built off our blood, sweat, and tears) and we will have the Faith.

    The same is happening in the SSPX now. They will have the real estate, and depending upon the outcome of +Fellay's actions, the faithful may have nothing but the Faith left to them.

    So, it's back to hotel conference rooms and school gymnasiums, I guess, if +Fellay chooses poorly.

    Offline Matthew

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    Phoenix sspx chapel update
    « Reply #196 on: July 04, 2016, 12:51:29 PM »
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  • Quote from: mw2016
    Quote from: Cato


      When you contribute to a building fund, general parish support, or what have you, it is "with no strings attached." Most of us know that. That money goes to a supranational organization, head quartered in Switzerland.

      And, more importantly, that's the legal reality.


    I am well aware of the reality.

    What you seem to have forgotten is that what is playing out now in the SSPX is a micro-version of what happened over the entire Church in the 1960's.

    The Church will have the real estate (built off our blood, sweat, and tears) and we will have the Faith.

    The same is happening in the SSPX now. They will have the real estate, and depending upon the outcome of +Fellay's actions, the faithful may have nothing but the Faith left to them.

    So, it's back to hotel conference rooms and school gymnasiums, I guess, if +Fellay chooses poorly.


    I agree, except for one detail --

    The SSPX started out in hotel rooms and garages, and eventually saved up enough resources to become what it is today.

    So what I'd like to add is: those pioneers, those brave souls who BEGAN THE PROCESS 1-3 years ago, are going to be that much further ahead.

    In Houston they already have a chapel. In the San Antonio area, we have a dedicated building which pews and a wide array of equipment. We're about to build a wooden altar next.

    We'll be better off than many other places because we got on board on the ground floor of the Resistance. I'm sure a similar thing happened in the 1970's. Those places who were quick to organize, quick to leave the Novus Ordo, etc. got the first pick of the faithful priests who refused the Novus Ordo.

    On the one hand, I realize that we're blessed/fortunate/lucky to have two very good priests willing to drive out and say Mass for us weekly. I don't deny that truth.

    But it's also true that I corresponded with God's grace by:

    A) being extremely vocal at my SSPX chapel about the Resistance from May 2012 onwards, risking expulsion
    B) along with my wife, we got kicked out of our volunteer positions in choir and accounting
    C) did lots of promoting/recruiting for the Resistance and Fr. Pfeiffer, at the cost of my own reputation there. This included in-person talking in the parish hall, as well as sending out e-mail invites to everyone I could get an e-mail address for.
    D) Gave up most of a good-sized warehouse building that we had just built for my family's own storage needs. (Our house has neither garage, nor basement, nor attic, nor any empty rooms for storage) The 30x40 concrete slab alone cost $11,000.
    E) But I didn't just give up the building and get weekly Mass in the same move. That would have been easy: I had to allocate the space and then WAIT for literally years before we got a priest here. Fr. Pfeiffer only came here 3 times, and we had absolutely nothing for a whole year. I was very vocal online about this. I was a squeaky wheel. The cause of the Resistance was my main "passion" which I promoted on CathInfo in countless ways. If I hadn't been the owner of CathInfo, I still would have started a blog or something, and/or post on existing Trad fora.

    I have a personal philosophy which says that "Winners make their own luck." To a certain extent, a lot of things are outside your control. But what you CAN do is increase your chances. Do everything you can do, and leave the rest to God. Make yourself more attractive than the other options. Give yourself as many "edges" as possible over your competition. Each thing you do improves your chances, until you end up getting "lucky" (in the eyes of others).

    This might come across as boasting, but I'm just stating these facts as simple facts. Please feel free to draw your own conclusions.

    Everything I listed A through E is absolutely true. Nothing anyone says here is going to magically turn what I did (above) into a lie. It all happened. Now maybe it all didn't count for anything; maybe I could have jumped rope 100 times instead, and I'd still have a fully-equipped chapel on my property with weekly Mass today. Maybe it was just meant to be.

    But I doubt it.


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    Offline Mark 79

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    Phoenix sspx chapel update
    « Reply #197 on: July 10, 2016, 01:14:09 AM »
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  • We Phoenicians need to make quite certain that no more of the Post Falls sodomite sewage ends up in our laps.  We already have Fr. Crane who ignored the warnings about Slinkier.

    Offline Mark 79

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    Phoenix sspx chapel update
    « Reply #198 on: July 10, 2016, 01:57:32 PM »
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  • CORRECTION OF THE ABOVE POST: To rub salt in our wounds, Fr. Crane's sermon in Phoenix today was about how parents should be putting their children in Society schools. What gall! Fr. Crane is among the ones who "allegedly" turned a deaf ear when students and parents warned him about the "camp counselor" pederast Sloniker.

    Anyone who has children in a Society school needs to be vigilant and to teach their children to flee shrieking from any sɛҳuąƖ overtures and to immediately report the problem to mom and dad, who, in turn, should call the police, completely bypassing any liars and enablers.

    Sad to say, we cannot trust the Society denials and reassurances. They have earned our mistrust.


    On a happier note, TWO confessionals were used today and all penitents were seen in time for Holy Communion. Let's hold our breath that that will continue.

    Offline mw2016

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    Phoenix sspx chapel update
    « Reply #199 on: July 10, 2016, 03:51:25 PM »
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  • Quote from: Mark 79
    CORRECTION OF THE ABOVE POST: To rub salt in our wounds, Fr. Crane's sermon in Phoenix today was about how parents should be putting their children in Society schools. What gall! Fr. Crane is among the ones who "allegedly" turned a deaf ear when students and parents warned him about the "camp counselor" pederast Sloniker.



    I don't see anything about Fr. Crane that I would qualify as "allegedly" in this report on the matter:

    Quote
    One alleged victim told a detective that Sloniker took him on a long trip in his truck through seven Western states when the boy was between 10 and 15 years old. Sloniker sɛҳuąƖly assaulted him repeatedly during the journey, the boy stated.

    Another boy said he spent one summer at the Latah farm when he was about 12. Sloniker’s attention escalated to nightly sɛҳuąƖ abuse, and Sloniker also hit him with a whip, he told police.

    Several of those interviewed said they reported their concerns to the priests at Immaculate Conception Church. The boy who said he was whipped by Sloniker said he shared that with Father Patrick Crane. He also told the priest that Sloniker made him strip naked.

    Crane, who now is with another Society of Saint Pius X church – Our Lady of Sorrows in Phoenix – was interviewed by a detective Sept. 22. He said Sloniker worked with the church camp from 2003 to 2006 and that he did not have any issues with him.

    When the detective shared that one of the alleged victims said he had told Crane about Sloniker whipping him, “Crane said he remembers part of it, but it was mostly because (the boy) did not want to attend the camp.”

    Crane added that he remembers not asking Sloniker back after that, and also told the detective that if something had been brought forward, he would have said something “because this was during the time the church was being looked into for other abuse allegations across America,” the detective wrote.


    I think Fr. Crane has a lot to answer for and a formal meeting should be held on the matter with our school's parents and Fr. Stafki.

    It is outrageous that he is in our parish under these circuмstances.

    Sloniker plead guilty and is going to be sentenced in July:

    Quote
    A Coeur d’Alene long-haul truck driver pleaded guilty Wednesday to molesting seven boys between the ages of 8 and 14.

    Kevin Gerard Sloniker faces a prison term of up to seven consecutive life sentences when he is sentenced July 13.

    He accepted a plea deal in a hearing before 1st District Judge Cynthia Meyer. Sloniker, 30, answered “guilty” as Meyer read each of the seven counts. He then described his “hand to genital” contact with each of the victims.

    Sloniker met and befriended boys in his role as a youth camp counselor at Immaculate Conception Church in Post Falls, according to investigators. The church is part of the Society of Saint Pius X, a traditionalist group with no canonical standing in the Roman Catholic Church.


    One boy said he attended the church’s Immaculate Conception Academy, and that Sloniker was involved with a group of boys who attended the K-12 school in Post Falls. Sloniker also taught boys how to be altar boys through the Guild of St. Stephen, an international organization of altar servers, investigators learned.

    Witnesses told investigators Sloniker liked to spend time with kids much younger than him and would buy them lavish gifts. One boy told a detective Sloniker took him on a long trip in his truck through seven states and sɛҳuąƖly assaulted him repeatedly during the journey.

    Some parents told police they knew of or strongly suspected the abuse and advised others to keep their kids away from Sloniker. In some cases Sloniker lived for a time with the families of his alleged victims.

    The charges stem from investigations by the Coeur d’Alene and Post Falls police departments. Sloniker was arrested on a warrant Sept. 14 in Menomonie, Wisconsin, and extradited to Kootenai County, where he was booked into jail Oct. 9.

    In a police interview, Sloniker said he wanted help for an addiction to touching young boys, a police detective said in court filings.

    In exchange for the guilty plea, the Kootenai County Prosecuting Attorney’s Office agreed not to pursue other charges, including production of child pornography charges for photos Sloniker allegedly made of two of the boys.



    http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2016/mar/09/idaho-truck-driver-pleads-guilty-to-molesting-7-bo/


    Offline mw2016

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    Offline mw2016

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    Phoenix sspx chapel update
    « Reply #201 on: July 10, 2016, 09:27:43 PM »
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  • SNAP is calling for Fr. Crane's suspension by Bp. Olmsted.

    I wonder how that would work, exactly....  :facepalm:

    http://www.snapnetwork.org/az_victims_ask_phoenix_bishop_to_help_re_predator

    Quote
    A Phoenix priest is accused of ignoring reports that a now-admitted child molester made a boy strip naked and whipped him.

    Fr. Patrick Crane is with Our Lady of Sorrows in Phoenix. Last month, he was interviewed by a detective because he worked for three years - from 2003 to 2006 – with Kevin Sloniker, who faces recent child sex charges in Washington and Idaho. Crane said he remembers part of the conversation with the boy.

    For the safety of kids, we call on Phoenix Bishop Thomas Olmstead to suspend Fr. Crane.

    And we call on Idaho Bishop Peter F. Christensen and Spokane Bishop Thomas Daly to use church websites, parish bulletins, pulpit announcements and personal appeals to reach out to others who may have seen, suspected or suffered crimes by Sloniker.

    http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2015/oct/26/coeur-dalene-man-jailed-on-1-million-bond-suspecte/

    Sloniker was at Immaculate Conception Church in Post Falls. He’s part of an arch-conservative Catholic group called the Society of St. Pius X. He’s not the first man with that group to face abuse allegations:

    http://www.snapnetwork.org/exclusive_after_us_sex_abuse_scandals_an_accused_priest_rises_again_in_paraguay

    Sloniker was recently arrested on abuse charges and may face more charges since he took boys across state lines.

    All too often, when church staff and volunteers are arrested on child sex charges, bishops do nothing. All too often, corrupt church officials refuse to act and thus essentially protect criminals and endanger children. And all too often, secular officials with the power and duty to safeguard society’s most vulnerable pursue only church staff who commit abuse and ignore church staff who conceal abuse.

    Christensen, Daly and hundreds of other church members and employees in northern Idaho and eastern Washington have a moral and civic duty to help law enforcement investigate and prosecute Sloniker. They’ll be tempted, of course, to do nothing. But that’s wrong. And their inaction might help enable Sloniker to exploit legal technicalities and escape punishment and hurt more kids.

    And Phoenix Catholic officials will be tempted to do nothing about Fr. Crane. That too is wrong. Their inaction might well encourage other clerics to ignore or conceal known or suspected child sex crimes by their colleagues.

    So we hope that anyone who saw, suspected or suffered Sloniker’s crimes will speak up, call police, protect kids, expose wrongdoers, deter cover ups and start healing. We hope Phoenix Catholic officials will suspend Fr. Crane.

    And we hope that Idaho and Washington Catholic officials will ignore their defense lawyers, show real courage, and aggressively reach out to anyone with information or suspicions about Sloniker that might help law enforcement keep him away from kids for a long time.

    (SNAP, the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, is the world’s oldest and largest support group for clergy abuse victims. SNAP was founded in 1988 and has more than 20,000 members. Despite the word “priest” in our title, we have members who were molested by religious figures of all denominations, including nuns, rabbis, bishops, and Protestant ministers. Our website is SNAPnetwork.org)

    Contact - David Clohessy (314-566-9790 cell, davidgclohessy@gmail.com, SNAPclohessy@aol.com), Barbara Dorris (314-503-0003 cell, bdorris@SNAPnetwork.org), Barbara Blaine(312-399-4747, bblaine@snapnetwork.org)

     

    Offline PhxGroup

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    Phoenix sspx chapel update
    « Reply #202 on: July 14, 2016, 08:07:46 PM »
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  • FIRST let us say
    We are of no opinion about the question of Rome or the SSPX outside of how it pertains to OLOS

    Back to the topic at hand
    we heard that Father S has put forward proposals about the windows to district in hopes that will inspire people to start donating again  
    also one of our "group" was standing in ear shot as an usher told Br.D there had been questions about the removal of the Sacred Heart statue "what did you tell them ?" ask Br.D It was only there temperately was the reply "tell them there will be statues when they pay for the side altars"
    "Can't say that but it would nice to put them in their place" said the usher  then they both had a light laugh
    Our place ??        
    If the SSPX is to survive, the future of the society lies in our past  


    Offline Mark 79

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    « Reply #203 on: July 14, 2016, 10:40:30 PM »
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  • The windows had already been paid for by donors. Where is that money?

    Offline Marlelar

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    Phoenix sspx chapel update
    « Reply #204 on: July 14, 2016, 11:28:40 PM »
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  • Quote from: mw2016
    SNAP is calling for Fr. Crane's suspension by Bp. Olmsted.

    I wonder how that would work, exactly....  :facepalm:


    That's right, Olmstead has no authority over SSPX priests.

    For everyone's sake, including his, I think Fr. Crane should be transferred to some administrative position.  

    Offline Mark 79

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    « Reply #205 on: July 15, 2016, 10:17:20 AM »
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  • Quote from: Marlelar
    Quote from: mw2016
    SNAP is calling for Fr. Crane's suspension by Bp. Olmsted.

    I wonder how that would work, exactly....  :facepalm:


    That's right, Olmstead has no authority over SSPX priests.

    For everyone's sake, including his, I think Fr. Crane should be transferred to some administrative position.  


    ...AND at a location where there are NO children.


    Offline Alexandria

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    Phoenix sspx chapel update
    « Reply #206 on: July 15, 2016, 12:29:08 PM »
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  • Quote
    SNAP is calling for Fr. Crane's suspension by Bp. Olmsted.


    That's funny.  

    Offline PhxGroup

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    Phoenix sspx chapel update
    « Reply #207 on: July 19, 2016, 06:05:35 PM »
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  • We as a group have decided to stop posting
    We have come to the realization that nothing is going to change and by bringing up the faults of that half built modernist spectacle we are vilified instead of the lying blackmailers who built it

    We started posting here in an attempt to coordinate concrete solutions but know see that we are stuck with that insult to our Sorrowful Mother because not enough people will stand up ....Oh not in person , not openly but right here on this forum.We know many many people from OLOS read this forum and most agree with everything said here...well where are you ? why have you not posted your support and added your take on what is going on ? ....exactly

    We are still going to withhold the majority of our donations and other forms of support
     We will not contribute so long as we are lied to, blackmailed and treated like dirt and plead with other parishioners  to join in our silent protest  
    If the SSPX is to survive, the future of the society lies in our past  

    Offline Mark 79

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    Phoenix sspx chapel update
    « Reply #208 on: July 19, 2016, 06:14:41 PM »
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  • Quote from: PhxGroup
    We as a group have decided to stop posting
    We have come to the realization that nothing is going to change and by bringing up the faults of that half built modernist spectacle we are vilified instead of the lying blackmailers who built it

    We started posting here in an attempt to coordinate concrete solutions but know see that we are stuck with that insult to our Sorrowful Mother because not enough people will stand up ....Oh not in person , not openly but right here on this forum.We know many many people from OLOS read this forum and most agree with everything said here...well where are you ? why have you not posted your support and added your take on what is going on ? ....exactly

    We are still going to withhold the majority of our donations and other forms of support
     We will not contribute so long as we are lied to, blackmailed and treated like dirt and plead with other parishioners  to join in our silent protest  


    Bad timing methinks to withdraw when hard questions are being asked from many quarters.

    We have a series of 4 SSPX child sex scandals that have justly earned the attention of concerned parents and we have the apparent misappropriation of funds for the stained glass windows for the new church. Donors' money was earmarked specifically for stained glass windows. Where is that money?

    Offline hollingsworth

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    Phoenix sspx chapel update
    « Reply #209 on: July 19, 2016, 06:40:42 PM »
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  • Phx:
    Quote
    We are still going to withhold the majority of our donations and other forms of support
    We will not contribute so long as we are lied to, blackmailed and treated like dirt and plead with other parishioners  to join in our silent protest  


    I may be naive, or insensitive, or ignorant, or unaware, or just plain not in the proper know.... but why is it that you are going to withhold only the "majority" of your donations and support?  Why don't you simply leave the parish altogether?