Author Topic: Phoenix sspx chapel update (Read 117963 times)

PhxGroup · « **Reply #105 on:** April 21, 2016, 02:02:31 PM »

Quote from: RogerThat

Some of the statuary is in the Chapel, some of it was moved to the priory, some of it is in storage for when the basement is fixed, a few were sent to the new Colorado SSPX Chapel months ago, and I do not know where the rest is. I doubt it was sold to a company and don't know how anyone would know that unless you are on the board of directors or heard it from the priest directly.

I do not know where this sentiment of large chunks of parishioners leaving is coming from. The Vigil mass was packed with dozens of people standing outside. Both Sunday masses are also full. I don't know how/where people are coming up with these statements. The collection amounts have been the same and are about avewrage for the typical American SSPX chapel in a mid sized city.

Smoke and Mirrors The "rest" of the statuary that you allude to accounts for about 75% hardly any went to the priory and what "storage" ? The basement is what is being used for storage now. Are you saying the statues are in the basement Rodger?
You still didn't answer the question about why there is no statuary in the church NOW. Though the novus ordo style palm trees and ivy drapped around the alter is interesting, all that is missing is a water fountain

While we are on the subject of the secular sanitizing of our church
Why was the small grotto of Our Lady of Grace outside the old cry room removed and where is it ?
Why was the large icon of Our Lady of Perpetual Help removed from the hall ?
Why were ALL of the pictures of St. Pius X removed from the main chapel ,retreat chapel, conference room and hall ?
Why was the Our Lady of Guadalupe removed from the old church vestibule and not put in the new one as promised ?

These questions only concern the statuary and alike we have many more about the devotions ,HNS and sacraments but we will wait until later for that

How can you in good conscience say that parishioners are not leaving and collections are not down ...only that is not what you said is it ? you just wondered who could have said such a thing You try to be clever with words to avoid or hind the truth only it is not clever it is condescending
What does "about average for the typical American SSPX chapel in a mid sized city" even mean ?

for those that are interested ,
Regular Mass attendance is down as are collections The church is not even close to making its debt payment through the building fund collection and those are hard cold facts

Matthew · « **Reply #106 on:** April 21, 2016, 02:13:41 PM »

Quote from: PhxGroup

How can you in good conscience say that parishioners are not leaving and collections are not down ...only that is not what you said is it ? you just wondered who could have said such a thing You try to be clever with words to avoid or hind the truth only it is not clever it is condescending
What does "about average for the typical American SSPX chapel in a mid sized city" even mean ?

for those that are interested ,
Regular Mass attendance is down as are collections The church is not even close to making its debt payment through the building fund collection and those are hard cold facts

Good catch. You gotta watch these Trads -- they often want to avoid lying, so they use mental reservation and redirection to avoid telling outright falsehoods. They try to trick you into deceiving YOURSELF by assuming something totally false after reading their words, which is "totally not their problem."

If the both Masses were really standing room only, and collections were fine, then why is Fr. Wegner getting involved at all? And why is he hammering home the point so hard about repaying the debt? With the optimism of Roger, you'd think there were no issues there. They should be making their loan payments AND THEN SOME.

hollingsworth · « **Reply #107 on:** April 21, 2016, 03:05:06 PM »

Matthew:

Quote

Good catch. You gotta watch these Trads -- they often want to avoid lying, so they use mental reservation and redirection to avoid telling outright falsehoods. They try to trick you into deceiving YOURSELF by assuming something totally false after reading their words, which is "totally not their problem."

Never trust a "trad." LOL

Matthew · « **Reply #108 on:** April 21, 2016, 03:17:38 PM »

Quote from: RogerThat

I do not know where this sentiment of large chunks of parishioners leaving is coming from. The Vigil mass was packed with dozens of people standing outside. Both Sunday masses are also full. I don't know how/where people are coming up with these statements. The collection amounts have been the same and are about avewrage for the typical American SSPX chapel in a mid sized city.

I do not know where this sentiment of large chunks of parishioners leaving is coming from.

But what about the fact of the chapel loosing parishioners?

Let me put in the proper punctuation for the next bit:

"The Vigil mass was packed with dozens of people standing outside.", "Both Sunday masses are also full."
I don't know how/where people are coming up with these statements.

Yeah, kind of outlandish, aren't they?

The collection amounts have been the same and are about avewrage for the typical American SSPX chapel in a mid sized city.

Yes, they've been the same (down 50%?) for the past ? (six?) months.

And Phoenix is the #6 city in the USA in terms of population. (San Antonio is #7) How is that a mid-sized city?
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/a0763098.html

It's great that a Priory (3-4 resident priests) with a new church building in the #6 American city can manage to pull in donations that are "about average for the typical American SSPX chapel in a mid sized city."

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #109 on:** April 21, 2016, 04:00:14 PM »

It is easy to defend the truth. The opposite is not so easy. That is why the Vatican II popes write 264 page docuмents, where St. Paul says the opposite in one sentence.

mw2016 · « **Reply #110 on:** April 21, 2016, 04:53:56 PM »

Quote from: Mark 79

Quote from: mw2016
Quote from: Mark 79
Quote from: Aleah
...No need to be paranoid with me...

Here's a question for you—What tribe perfected the tactic of treating political and religious opposition as mental illness?

Good post!

*raises hand*

Teacher, pick me! I know the answer, yes I do!

OK.... the person over there with the raised hand.... the answer?

It's the Jews!

Or, would that specifically be the Tribe of Dan?

Mark 79 · « **Reply #111 on:** April 21, 2016, 05:47:59 PM »

Quote from: mw2016

Quote from: Mark 79
Quote from: mw2016
Quote from: Mark 79
Quote from: Aleah
...No need to be paranoid with me...

Here's a question for you—What tribe perfected the tactic of treating political and religious opposition as mental illness?

Good post!

*raises hand*

Teacher, pick me! I know the answer, yes I do!

OK.... the person over there with the raised hand.... the answer?

It's the Jews!

Or, would that specifically be the Tribe of Dan?

Correct answer. Unfortunately, the prize money went to... "rent." (Just kidding.)

Incredulous · « **Reply #112 on:** April 21, 2016, 05:56:20 PM »

Quote from: mw2016

Quote from: Mark 79
Quote from: mw2016
Quote from: Mark 79
Quote from: Aleah
...No need to be paranoid with me...

Here's a question for you—What tribe perfected the tactic of treating political and religious opposition as mental illness?

Good post!

*raises hand*

Teacher, pick me! I know the answer, yes I do!

OK.... the person over there with the raised hand.... the answer?

It's the Jews!

Or, would that specifically be the Tribe of Dan?

"Ultimately, it's the devil, the world and the flesh...
We're just here to help these three processes become more efficient."

Geremia · « **Reply #113 on:** April 21, 2016, 06:15:12 PM »

Quote from: Mark 79

The owner of the property and the remaining parishioners had the FSSP leave and invited the SSPX instead.

Owner of what property?

mw2016 · « **Reply #114 on:** April 21, 2016, 06:31:57 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

If the both Masses were really standing room only, and collections were fine, then why is Fr. Wegner getting involved at all? And why is he hammering home the point so hard about repaying the debt? With the optimism of Roger, you'd think there were no issues there. They should be making their loan payments AND THEN SOME.

I can attest to the fact that both Masses are certainly not "standing room only."

The 8 am is usually pretty busy, (but not full, the chapel does seat close to 700 after all!) due to the fact that most of the larger families with kids attend that one. The 10 am is much less busy.

I would say attendence seems a little down, but I don't have numbers.

The interesting thing about the debt is that they said the payment is $11K per month, but the "total debt" amount ($2,553,703) listed in the bulletin each Sunday NEVER CHANGES.

Shouldn't the total debt amount go down by $11K each month?....LOL.

A recent collections summary in the bulletin showed that the "building fund" collection is down dramatically:

2012 Avg.: 21,510
2013 Avg.: 33,127
2014 Avg.: 46,966

Jan 2016: 15,579
Feb 2016: 9,526
Mar 2016: 9,067

A steep drop, eh?

mw2016 · « **Reply #115 on:** April 21, 2016, 06:33:49 PM »

Quote from: Mark 79

Quote from: mw2016
Quote from: Mark 79
Quote from: mw2016
Quote from: Mark 79
Quote from: Aleah
...No need to be paranoid with me...

Here's a question for you—What tribe perfected the tactic of treating political and religious opposition as mental illness?

Good post!

*raises hand*

Teacher, pick me! I know the answer, yes I do!

OK.... the person over there with the raised hand.... the answer?

It's the Jews!

Or, would that specifically be the Tribe of Dan?

Correct answer. Unfortunately, the prize money went to... "rent." (Just kidding.)

I'm starting to wonder if my landlord might be a Jew.

mw2016 · « **Reply #116 on:** April 21, 2016, 06:51:33 PM »

Quote from: RogerThat

- The stained glass: These will be installed, AT THE EARLIEST, one year from now. There were only 2 firms in the entire country (TWO!) that make custom stained glass that fit our needs and budget. You can't make stained glass on a home printer. They take months to make and are increadibly expensive. We are luckey to even be getting them. It was very contested because of the price.

Where is the stained glass?

Everybody wants to know, and it is something I hear a lot.

It should have been done at the outset, especially if the money was already collected from the parishioners for them.

You do not need new stained glass.

It is much better, both in terms of the beauty of the finished product, and in cost-effectiveness, to get windows that are from defunct 120-year old Churches that have been shuttered by the Novus Ordo. The reason is that they just don't make them in 2016 the way they used to!

OLOS's baldachin, altar and altar rail, pulpit, and side altars were procured this way. They came from Immaculate Conception Church in East Germantown, a suburb of Pittsburgh, PA.

See original photos here:

http://www.friendsofimmaculate.com/photo_album.htm

Immaculate Conception's original stained glass windows are available for our Church, and they would fit into the design of our windows.

It would cost around $180K-$200K, which is about HALF of what the quote was for new windows, if your figures are the same as mine.

Mark 79 · « **Reply #117 on:** April 21, 2016, 06:57:24 PM »

Quote from: mw2016

...

The interesting thing about the debt is that they said the payment is $11K per month, but the "total debt" amount ($2,553,703) listed in the bulletin each Sunday NEVER CHANGES.

Shouldn't the total debt amount go down by $11K each month?....

It depends what interest rate is being charged by Shylock for his "donation."

mw2016 · « **Reply #118 on:** April 21, 2016, 07:14:56 PM »

Quote from: Mark 79

Quote from: mw2016
It is also to be mentioned that Fr. Wegner (in his money chastisement) said that SSPX parishes pay a "tax" to the SSPX that goes into a legal fund to defend lawsuits against them.

Perhaps PhxGroup can expand on that a bit.

Lawsuits??

Have you seen this?

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/suffolk/farmingville-church-misused-donations-lawsuit-claims-1.11680441

Fr. Wegner is named as a defendant.

More here: http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=40585&min=0&num=10

WHOA!! How interesting.

It seems there is an awful lot of misused donations.

I guess the money has already been collected on the windows, but was not used to buy the windows.

So, now how do you "collect" money to buy the windows? And what do you tell the people who thought they "bought" a window?

It occurs to me that this was the very reason a group of parishioners drove out Fr. Pfeiffer years ago - they said he was co-mingling funds between Denver and Phoenix, paying for Phoenix stuff from Denver or vice versa.

But, now this same group is doing the exact same thing?? Using money for another purpose other than it's intended one?

People just want their money to go to what they donated it for.

Matthew · « **Reply #119 on:** April 21, 2016, 08:53:01 PM »

Quote from: mw2016

The interesting thing about the debt is that they said the payment is $11K per month, but the "total debt" amount ($2,553,703) listed in the bulletin each Sunday NEVER CHANGES.

Shouldn't the total debt amount go down by $11K each month?....LOL.

No, the whole debt service payment doesn't go to the principal. There is also interest. You know, to make usurers like this guy wealthy: