Instead of the complaining why do not more of you get involved and offer to do volunteer work. We beg people to help of clean the church and yet few come forward. for those of you that are not willing to work within your parish, than I suggest you move on.

Just some observations as an outsider person who has not ever set foot at OLOS:

This entire thread's discussion on both sides sounds like another SSPX chapel, I know well, and one I do attend frequently. What Lunatik states above is exactly describes what someone "on the inside" would say, not because of the plea for help, but for the the last part, which betrays a despotic lack of charity on the part of the writer.

"If you are not willing to work "within the parish then move on".

This attitude of "If you are not willing to follow orders without questions, then we do not want you", is Menzigen talking, it cetainly is not Fr. Ricomini, maybe this is why he was removed, he could not continue to follow orders without question, he was fed up with being the front lines lieutenant that had to give these despotic  orders? Maybe my theory explains his strange departure:

The departure of Fr. Riccomini was done in a fashion that would raise questions for anyone with a working brain. Tired??? Stressed??? When has even a "tired" and "stressed" pastor slipped away without the usual fête? Then there are the extensions—a month turned into a few months and that turned into never.

Again, this sounds like Menzigen is giving the orders and Fr. Riccomini was just the face following the orders, till he could no longer go against his conscience. Having known Fr. Riccomini, it does not sound like him to:

-Give orders to report complainers
-the heavy-handed suppression of even polite questions or disagreements.
-the sermons are a big problem both in delivery and content. A monotone drone of a barely audible sermon on an "airy-fairy" topic
-The lack of one single statue in the church
-The disbanding of the Holy Name Society
-The suspension of blessing religious articles
-The ending of most evening masses
-not consulted on any of the very expensive changes to the plans

There are many other similarities with my chapel between the OLOS happenings as described by both sides, many more. For this reason I think this is all coming from the top, a handful of men at Menzigen (maybe just 2 or 3 men), and their comrades, most just following orders though they don't necessarily agree, a few others (petty despots, life long insignificant men now given power over others.) liking the power it gives them. The political model for this is totalitarian communism, it is not of the children of light.  

Quote from: Geremia

Quote from: PhxGroup

This Sunday was very interesting
We found out Fr. R. is gone for good
We found out there will be no sign in front or anywhere on church property
We found out the basement will not be completed until the debt is paid
We found out the interior of the church will not be completed until the
     basement is

That wasn't at the 10 AM, was it?

Also, do you know what happened to the statues from the old church? I'm wondering why those aren't in the new church.

No the information we are relaying is reliable and comes from sources who are "in the know" We would not repeat idle gossip or theories

Why are you called "PhxGroup"? I thought you attended the Phoenix SSPX parish. If you don't, then why do you start a thread complaining about it?

From Fr. Wegner's announcements this past Sunday at the 10 AM, he said nothing, that I recall, about Fr. Riccomini. He mentioned that much of the loan contributed to Phoenix's new church came from another SSPX parish in Kentucky, I think it was, and that contributing to paying of the debt serves a twofold purpose: satisfying justice and helping the Kentucky SSPX church's school.

Also, the reason for the loan in the first place is because they wanted to build the church sooner than later, as the city's zoning regulations might've prevented it if they delayed.

Quote from: PhxGroup

Quote from: Geremia

Quote from: PhxGroup

This Sunday was very interesting
We found out Fr. R. is gone for good
We found out there will be no sign in front or anywhere on church property
We found out the basement will not be completed until the debt is paid
We found out the interior of the church will not be completed until the
     basement is

That wasn't at the 10 AM, was it?

Also, do you know what happened to the statues from the old church? I'm wondering why those aren't in the new church.

No the information we are relaying is reliable and comes from sources who are "in the know" We would not repeat idle gossip or theories

Why are you called "PhxGroup"? I thought you attended the Phoenix SSPX parish. If you don't, then why do you start a thread complaining about it?

From Fr. Wegner's announcements this past Sunday at the 10 AM, he said nothing, that I recall, about Fr. Riccomini. He mentioned that much of the loan contributed to Phoenix's new church came from another SSPX parish in Kentucky, I think it was, and that contributing to paying of the debt serves a twofold purpose: satisfying justice and helping the Kentucky SSPX church's school.

Also, the reason for the loan in the first place is because they wanted to build the church sooner than later, as the city's zoning regulations might've prevented it if they delayed.

You know very well the answers to your own questions . You are attempting to bait us into a argument
Interesting how you were not so against our posting when you were asking about the statues . Don't blame the messenger we are merely passing on reliable information

If you think anything we have posted is contrary to the truth or scandalous gossip Try asking your statue question next Sunday. Ask a Brother or better yet test your theory and ask an usher

don't say we didn't warn you Geremia    

 

I didn't hear anyone fall out of their pew with a loud noise when Fr. W's sermon admonished parishioners about "the justice" of paying interest on a loan from a Catholic pastor?

That's right—the US District Superior thinks it is justice for Catholics to charge and pay each other interest!!!

One can only wonder how many seminary hours are spent teaching about the INJUSTICE of taking interest on a simple loan of money (hint: it is the mortal sin of USURY  judaism DOT is/usury.html).

Maybe the class on usury was superseded by a class on the super-dogma of the h0Ɩ0h0αx to which every bishop must kneel... and a seminar on how to ignore parental warnings about an active pederast set amongst the children in the parish and summer camps because the pederasty wasn't happening "in the church or at the camps." You know, off-campus pederasty and psychotic attempts to "circuмcise" oneself in the seminary are not reasons to be excluded from being a counsellor to Catholic children.

Test questions: Where is one of the priests who ignored the parental warnings? What is his title in his new location?  Is there a grammar school and a high school there?

PhX:

To the best of our knowledge The SSPX holds title to OLoS

Thanks.  Can't one or several of you go to the County Recorder and dig up a copy of the deed?  It would be interesting to have the copy of any such docuмent, together with the signatories.  Has this effort been made in the past?

I didn't hear anyone fall out of their pew with a loud noise when Fr. W's sermon admonished parishioners about "the justice" of paying interest on a loan from a Catholic pastor?

Fr. Wegner did not say the Catholic pastor is charging the Phoenix parish interest. That would indeed be usurious.

There are two loans: one from the Catholic pastor and another from a usurer to cover the rest of the costs of the church. Paying interest on the loan from the usurer* makes it easier to repay the Catholic pastor and support his school while at the same time paying off the Phoenix parish's debt. This is what Fr. Wegner meant by saying that almsgiving in this case is both an act of charity and an act of justice.

*(It is lawful to borrow from a usurer: dhspriory DOT org/thomas/summa/SS/SS078.html#SSQ78A4THEP1 )

PhxG, this may be of interest to you, I don't know.  But if you go to the URL Recorder.Maricopa.gov it may turn up some information of interest to a few of you.  Just scroll down to "Business Name" and type in 'Society Saint Pius X, Phoenix, Arizona.'  you come up with a slew of docuмents relating to the OLS property.  You also see names like Lazlo Kovacs, Arnaud Rostand, John Fullerton, Peter Scott appearing on certain docuмents.

On other sites I've seen docs that seem to lead to Platte, MO and from there directly to Menzingen.  This guy Kovacs, an architect, apparently, seems to have represented St. Pius X, inc. on a couple of occasions.  Just thought I'd pass this along.  You may have already seen all this stuff.  But if not, maybe you OLS folks down there can make more sense of the material than I can at a distance.  There are also, on several docs, several names of women with whom you might be acquainted.