How many have the aptitude and time committed to study what the Magisterium, the manuals and the theological conclusions of the best theologians have to say? It reminds me a bit of the question of the existence of God. It can absolutely be demonstrated that God exists using reason but the reality is people have reasoned so falsely on this question and are liable to commit so many errors that God in His infinite wisdom has deemed it necessary to give us His Revelation. That is not exactly the best comparison but until the Magisterium speaks clearly on the question of the Post-Conciliar period do we need to hurl anathemas at each other? (I will agree that the S&S seem too strident)
It is also an interesting phenomenon that all the "champions" of sedevacantism and sedeprivationism are not known to do anything for really building a Catholic Social Order. I think that is somewhat of the point Fr Chazal made in one of his conferences in 2015.
Obscurus,
That is the first question proposed by St. Thomas in the Summa, with philosophy why do we need theological studies? One answer is that there are certain doctrines of divine revelation that can be known with certainty by philosophy but still form part of God’s revelation. The reason is that most people do not have the time, inclination, or competency to study philosophy and even if they do may still end in error, so God in His mercy has provided certainty of these philosophical truths through divine revelation.
The precious gift of Dogma is exactly analogous to this very point made by St. Thomas that you mention. We know by divine revelation certain truths but often through lack of time, inclination or competency these remain poorly known. But what is worse, heretics corrupt this divine revelation leading many into error. God in His mercy again provides Dogma as a sure guide to His faithful. Dogma is divine revelation formally defined, typically as a categorical proposition, that requires only good grammar and proper definition to understand, and good will to embrace.
This is why Dogma is the proximate rule of faith. Dogma, like Scripture and Tradition, the remote rule of faith, is divine revelation but possessing such additional clarity that it is within the competency of every Catholic. Supernatural faith is believing what God has revealed on the authority of God the revealer. No one has to understand any particular Dogma, they just have to believe it as a literal truth revealed by God. St. Teresa of Jesus said she rejoiced more in the truths she did not understand than the ones she did because they required a greater act of faith and were therefore more virtuous.
The arguments that I have made in this thread are typically very simple and generally are the clarification of definitions, the importance of not corrupting first principles, and the necessity of being faithful to Dogma. But these have made no impression on committed S&Sers. I have posted many times that they are in a church that cannot be the Catholic Church. They are in a church that has no pope, no magisterium, and no intention or means to ever get one and therefore, no hope. Their church is defective of necessary attributes of the Church founded by Jesus Christ. Not once has any S&Ser addressed this manifest truth. It does not matter to them.
They are impervious to any arguments. Take one example. Sedeprivationism begins with severing the matter and form of the papal office. Hylomorphism, the philosophical truth that material beings are composed of form and matter, is philosophical truth that can be proven by natural reason. It not only is a known philosophical truth, it is a truth of Catholic Dogma in that this philosophical truth has been used in Catholic Dogma on the sacraments. We know, not just by human reason, but by divine and Catholic faith that hylomorphism is true.
From this we know with certainty that the separation of form and matter necessarily causes a substantial change in any material being. This is just one big cold hard fact. How has it been answered over the last hundred pages? The only answer is that this theory of sedeprivationism was formulated by the Rev. Guerard des Lauriers and it is unthinkable to suggest that he could have made such a stupid mistake. That is it. That is the only answer provided over hundreds of posts.
The appeal to authority is the weakest of all arguments unless the authority is God then it is the strongest of all arguments. Dogma is the authority of God and Dogma has been pitted against the authority of Guerard des Lauriers. Ladislaus, Cantarella, et al. prefer the authority of Guerard des Lauriers over the authority of God. The consequences are grave and yet S&Sers march on with a mindless self absorption that is frightening. But the consequences go beyond the wreckage of their personal spiritual lives. They must necessarily become an enemy of Dogma because they are manifestly corrupting Dogma in their personal lives. The greatest opposition to traditional Catholicism since Vatican II has not been from liberal Catholics. It has been conservative Catholics that have constantly undermined the efforts to defend Tradition. The interesting thing is that the arguments offered by S&Sers regarding the pope, the magisterium, councils, Catholic morality, etc., etc., are almost identical with those offered by conservative Catholics over the last fifty years. One thing is certain, traditional Catholics working in defense of the faith for Catholic restoration will get the same knife in the back from S&Sers that they have suffered from conservative Catholics. In the end both will have a lot to answer for.
Drew
Topic: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd? (Read 443162 times)